ThePortForum.com

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=39371#p39371]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:At The Bell, for the Christmas tasting on 16 December 2010, for the first time, glass stickers were used rather than placemats. At the Bell glasses and space is tight, there just not being space for each person to use three pages of A4 of table.

jdaw1 wrote:A competent programmer recently...suggested that there be a single array of dictionaries, with defaults outside:

Code: Select all

/Belowtitle () def
/GlassesData [
<< /Title (S70) /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1970) ] >>
<< /Title (G70) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) ] >>
<< /Title (G63) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1963) ] >>
<< /Title (S77) /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1977) ] >>
<< /Title (G77) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1977) ] >>
<< /Title (G85) /Belowtitle (Single) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Single) ] >>
<< /Title (S85) /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1985) ] >>
<< /Title (G85) /Belowtitle (Magnum) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Magnum) ] >>
] def

Upon reflection, in a purist IT sense he is completely. But I am concerned that non-programmers, who might already be struggling to use the software, would find this even less intuitive.

Comments?

jdaw1 wrote:Definitions would be needed for Circlearray, Title, Abovetitle, Belowtitle, Overtitle, and FillText. Most will be empty, so using a default would substantially lessen clutter in the parameters.

RAYC wrote:I don't exactly follow what you mean

/Abovetitle () def
/Belowtitle () def
/Overtitle () def
/FillText () def
/GlassesData [
	<< /Title (S70)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1970) ] >>
	<< /Title (G70)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) ] >>
	<< /Title (G63)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1963) ] >>
	<< /Title (S77)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1977) ] >>
	<< /Title (G77)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1977) ] >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Single)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Single) ] >>
	<< /Title (S85)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1985) ] >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Magnum)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Magnum) ] >>
] def

/GlassesData [
	<< /Title (S70)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1970) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (G70)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (G63)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1963) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (S77)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1977) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (G77)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1977) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Single)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Single) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (S85)   /Belowtitle ()   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1985) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Magnum)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Magnum) ]   /Abovetitle ()   /Overtitle ()   /FillText () >>
] def

jdaw1 wrote:Concise

Code: Select all

/Abovetitle () def
/Belowtitle () def
/Overtitle () def
/FillText () def
/GlassesData [
	<< /Title (S70)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1970) ] >>
	<< /Title (G70)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) ] >>
	<< /Title (G63)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1963) ] >>
	<< /Title (S77)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1977) ] >>
	<< /Title (G77)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1977) ] >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Single)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Single) ] >>
	<< /Title (S85)   /Circlearray [ (Sandeman) (1985) ] >>
	<< /Title (G85)   /Belowtitle (Magnum)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1985) (Magnum) ] >>
] def

<< /Title (G70) /Above (Hedges & Butler) /Below (Magnum) / Over () /Fill (G70) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) (Magnum) ] >>
<< /Title (G70) /Above (Berry Brothers) /Below (Single) / Over () /Fill (G70) /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) (Single) ] >>
<< /Title (D63) /Above (Oporto) /Below (Half) / Over () /Fill (D63) /Circlearray [ (Dow) (1963) (Half) ] >>

jdaw1 wrote:I accept your point about the template, but, in a typical placemat, almost all of this would be empty. So the GlassesData would be mostly clutter: it becomes harder to read, to see what will happen, and thereby to find errors.

Maybe the conclusion is to leave it as-is, with separate arrays of strings.

RAYC wrote:But let's say, for arguments sake, i am tasting two bottles of G70 (one magnum bottled by Hedges and Butler and one single bottled by BBR) and a half of Dow 1963 (Oporto-bottled) and want to reflect this in the placemats.

As a non-programmer, I don't know what to do with your template.

/Abovetitle () def
/Belowtitle () def
/Overtitle () def
/FillText () def
/GlassesData [
	<< /Title (G70)  /Belowtitle (Magnum)   /Overtitle (Hedges & Butler)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) (Magnum) (H&B) ]>>
	<< /Title (G70)   /Overtitle (Berry Bros & Rudd)   /Circlearray [ (Graham) (1970) (Single) (BBR) ] >>
	<< /Title (D63)   /Belowtitle (Half)   /Circlearray [ (Dow) (1963) (Half) ] >>
] def

[url=http://www.conandalton.net/]The competent programmer[/url], after reading the above, by email wrote:As you said, things might have been different for the code if you had started that way but it's tricky to change now. The same is true for your users. Only a few will be able to judge the merits of one approach over the other; everyone else will prefer what they're used to.

In a subsequent email he wrote:RAYC has a point, that in a typical user interface, you'd likely show all the fields and ask the user to leave fields blank to get the default values. Whereas in code you want to kill clutter and hide stuff that doesn't need to be visible. In the placemat code, the parameters lines are playing two roles - one as plain old code, another as user interface.

So I guess the ultimate answer hinges on which of those two roles is more important for the lines in question.

[url=http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?p=70203#p70203]On :ftlop:[/url] Eric Menchen wrote:I like the concise version, as long as there is a comment line above telling me all the options. Disclaimer: I write code for a living.

jdaw1 wrote:

[url=http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?p=70203#p70203]On :ftlop:[/url] Eric Menchen wrote:I like the concise version, as long as there is a comment line above telling me all the options. Disclaimer: I write code for a living.

In the thread entitled [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=44162#p44162]Port from the Nineteen Nineties, Mon 08 August 2011[/url], jdaw1 wrote:

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=43927#p43927]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:

• And, slightly kludged, a ‘What is it?’ page. Comment encouraged.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=43952#43952]Here[/url] AHB wrote:A way to record guesses for posterity. I'm happy to try this out on 8th August.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=43953#43953]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Please scan and upload the sheet it’s OK, you will all be rubbish, as would I if I were there and comment on the technology.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=44122#p44122]Here[/url] RAYC wrote:Should the "total" field in the guess recorder be a column corresponding to the wines (as currently drafted) or a row at the bottom to correspond to the drinkers? (or perhaps both, giving two totals - best guesser, most guessed)

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=44124#44124]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Updated draft of the placemats.

• Kludged improvement to ‟What is it?” sheet. Comment on this would be welcomed.

What is written in the rectangles is the names of wines, abbreviated. So totalling these will be more arduous than totalling numerical scores (3 for first place; 2 for second; 1 third). Further design work probably needed.

Comment encouraged.

RAYC wrote:- Guesses are an interesting record of people's impressions of the port (see comment re: Roeda above)

- A slight concern from some that the process of gathering votes after every round got in the way of relaxed conversation. Though i would imagine that this would be less of an issue at a smaller tasting with fewer bottles.

- We are all terrible - top score was 6 points out of a possible 28 (1 point for vintage, 1 for shipper). Across all 8 people, there was only one correct guess at shipper. Scores for correct identification of vintage were no doubt flattered by the fact that we only had a choice of 10 years (or 9, discounting 1993)!

- The sheet worked well, and totalling points was not an arduous task. I had slight difficulty when drunk with recording votes in the correct columns...though this is not a criticism of the sheet itself!

- Inclusion of an extra row or two for extra ports would be good.

Earlier, in the [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=44124#p44124]planning thread for that tasting[/url], jdaw1 wrote:Note to self: there could be array parameters VoteRecorderRowTotalTitles and VoteRecorderColTotalTitles. The numbers of total rows and columns would be the length of these arrays, titled with their contents. Of course, the arrays themselves could depend on VoteRecorderSheetNum, so compelling a row in the ‘What is it?’ page but not in the ‘WOTN’ page. But that forces users doing an obvious thing to write code, which isn’t nice. Maybe these could be double-depth arrays, the outer array being of the same length as GlassesClusteredOnVoteRecorders. More complicated, but spares the ordinary user from code.

Later note to self: it’s complicated because there is too much flexibility only one total column or row is needed, so no need for the extra arrays depths that allow multiple. Instead have a non-array single piece of text, VoteRecorderTotalRowTitle and VoteRecorderTotalColTitle, both probably being (Total). Then have two arrays of booleans, of the same length as GlassesClusteredOnVoteRecorders, called VoteRecorderShowTotalRow and VoteRecorderShowTotalCol. That better captures what I actually want to do, with less needless excess.

RAYC wrote:- The sheet worked well, and totalling points was not an arduous task. I had slight difficulty when drunk with recording votes in the correct columns...though this is not a criticism of the sheet itself!

RAYC wrote:- Inclusion of an extra row or two for extra ports would be good.

jdaw1 wrote:If this change is done, all options would be plainly visible, but not necessarily in a comment line. Does that suffice?

Glenn E. wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:If this change is done, all options would be plainly visible, but not necessarily in a comment line. Does that suffice?

To me, no.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=45355#p45355]Here[/url] RAYC wrote:Placemats printed.

• ‘Purist’ (the printed version is the final version);
• ‘Near-Purist’ (later uploads must be of something that would print the same to paper);
• Other (detail).

DRT wrote:but do wonder what sort of geek would find it necessary to print a set of placemats for a tasting that had already happened.

jdaw1 wrote:

DRT wrote:but do wonder what sort of geek would find it necessary to print a set of placemats for a tasting that had already happened.

That’s not quite the point, I think. The online placemats are part of the record of the tasting. Records are important. (Some might recall that DRT and I are meant to be writing a book based on various records relating to port.)

To what extent can we retrospectively change this ‘record’? My view is slightly, not so much as to change the print, and only very soon after the tasting. It isn’t quite purist, but nearly so.

SushiNorth wrote:Are our placemats being stored and backed up?

jdaw1 wrote:I could add a page listing all the placemats, so that all are archived.

jdaw1 wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:I could add a page listing all the placemats, so that all are archived.

Done. Henceforth the British Library will find all these.

SushiNorth wrote:Is this list intended to include all TPF Tastings, and if so would it be useful to DL the ones that we've done in NYC for inclusion in that archive?

• At DRT’s request, HeaderRightText no longer depends on any other parameters, making it easier to move it to the top.
• Based on a suggestion of PhilW, BackgroundTextsGlassesPaintCode changed from 25% black to 6¼% black.  
• When RAYC prints, he prints the placenames to card. This is stiff enough to require one fold rather than three, so PlaceNamesFirstAndThirdFoldsFromEdge should be set to zero. I promised to add a feature that checked this parameter’s equality to zero, and if so, not to print the lines and instructions. Except that this was already being checked in just this manner. So, no change to software required. But note to self: if RAYC is to print then set /PlaceNamesFirstAndThirdFoldsFromEdge 0 def.
• I noticed that the ‘which shipper’ sheet still had the instruction ‟Record points, not rank.” These words have been moved to the parameter VoteRecorderInstruction.
• RAYC requested a sheet on which corks and cork fragments could be put, both for photography and for observation by others. This has not yet been done, whilst I ponder the range of variations that might be wanted.

• All placemats now include a link to this thread.

jdaw1 wrote:[*]Based on a suggestion of PhilW, BackgroundTextsGlassesPaintCode changed from 25% black to 6¼% black.

PhilW wrote:increasing the line width by 40%

jdaw1 wrote:

• RAYC requested a sheet on which corks and cork fragments could be put, both for photography and for observation by others. This has not yet been done, whilst I ponder the range of variations that might be wanted.

• /CorkDisplay true def, saying whether or not to bother.
• /GlassesClusteredOnCorkDisplay GlassesClusteredOnDecantingNotes def, saying which glasses go there;
• CorkDisplayMinWidth and CorkDisplayMinHeight, being minimum sizes.

jdaw1 wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:

• RAYC requested a sheet on which corks and cork fragments could be put, both for photography and for observation by others. This has not yet been done, whilst I ponder the range of variations that might be wanted.

I think that parameters needed are as follows:

• /CorkDisplay true def, saying whether or not to bother.
• /GlassesClusteredOnCorkDisplay GlassesClusteredOnDecantingNotes def, saying which glasses go there;
• CorkDisplayMinWidth and CorkDisplayMinHeight, being minimum sizes.

Then the code works out how many can go on each sheet. Each is a rectangle, surrounded by the Circlearrays text, very small, and containing, larger but not very large, the various title-like texts. Sheets would be discretely titled ‟The Corks”.

Does that work?

jdaw1 wrote:

• RAYC requested a sheet on which corks and cork fragments could be put, both for photography and for observation by others. This has not yet been done, whilst I ponder the range of variations that might be wanted.

On a PC the specification of NotePad++ looks encouraging user feedback welcomed

PhilW wrote:The value "/NonDecanterLabelGlassesNumCopies 1 def" appears a few lines below the comment "% Non-Glasses Pages %". Changing this value to zero appears to stop the glasses pages from being printed. Is this as intended, or what is this variable intended to control?

PhilW wrote:Also, perhaps a trivial detail but - is there a setting to define the width of any exclusion area on the glasses sheets between the outer ring of text as defined by circlearrays and the inner text defined by titles, belowtitles? In a couple of cases experimenting I found that the inner text can (virtually) meet the outer, and therefore by allowing optionally configurable decrease of the effective inner circle size (in which the title/belowtitle are sized and placed) by a small degree (say <=5%, configurable, or a fixed amount e.g. 1mm) might help clarity?

PhilW wrote:

On a PC the specification of NotePad++ looks encouraging user feedback welcomed

I use Notepad++ daily and find it is an excellent context-sensitive-highlighting text editor for use with many languages including postscript (though I hadn't used it for that particular language before today, I use it for several others regularly); highly recommended.

jdaw1 wrote:

PhilW wrote:The value "/NonDecanterLabelGlassesNumCopies 1 def" appears a few lines below the comment "% Non-Glasses Pages %". Changing this value to zero appears to stop the glasses pages from being printed. Is this as intended, or what is this variable intended to control?

This might be slightly mis-placed, but does what it seems to do. Why, oh why? Because several page types, including decanter labels and pre-pour and sticky-labels, contain extracts from the glasses pages. If there are no glasses pages, there cannot be sticky labels. But what if!? Then have glasses pages, and show 0 copies of them.

jdaw1 wrote:

PhilW wrote:Also, perhaps a trivial detail but - is there a setting to define the width of any exclusion area on the glasses sheets between the outer ring of text as defined by circlearrays and the inner text defined by titles, belowtitles? In a couple of cases experimenting I found that the inner text can (virtually) meet the outer, and therefore by allowing optionally configurable decrease of the effective inner circle size (in which the title/belowtitle are sized and placed) by a small degree (say <=5%, configurable, or a fixed amount e.g. 1mm) might help clarity?

They can indeed touch. Such a parameter could be added, though I think it should be expressed a proportion of one of the radii (Radii, RadiiCirclearrayBaseline, or RadiiCirclearrayInside). Suggest a name for the parameter. (Edit: though the boundaries of the Titles etc are separately constrained if there are decanter labels, and of course common sizing will also shrink some.)

PhilW wrote:In that case I wouldn't suggest it was mis-placed, but perhaps a change of name to something like "/InhibitGlassesPagePrinting" for clarity?

PhilW wrote:If I've understood the current variables correctly - Radii being the radius to the outside of the circlearray text, and RadiiCircleArrayInside to be the radius to the inside of the circlearray text - then I'd suggest RadiiCirclearrayInsideMargin with default either zero (to print as current) or 0.025 (to provide a 2.5% (radially) gap).

jdaw1 wrote:You should delight that, at no effort to yourself, TPF’s finest minds are keeping me in check. Express joy.