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It’s normal, They’re all filled like that. Even the 20 yr Graham’s Jeroboams are filled the same.

Worth a grumble though - it doesn't look very good..

uncle tom wrote: ↑16:42 Wed 07 Oct 2020

It’s normal, They’re all filled like that. Even the 20 yr Graham’s Jeroboams are filled the same.

Worth a grumble though - it doesn't look very good..

I have grumbled to C&B and they've gone away to speak to Symingtons.
I agree - does look a bit rubbish.

You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.

The Graham 1990 is absolutely superb, I have had a couple of bottles. Lucky you to get a large format bottle!
Congratulations!
I myself have just acquired as a latest buy a Warre 1920

I think AHB Is right. We just aren’t used to seeing the big gap because most large format wines have opaque bottles. All the photos of the 4.5l Graham 10YO tawny look the same or worse. I agree it’s not the best look, though: a needle through the cork to allow a higher fill level without over-pressurising the bottle would be a much better idea, I think.

Look at this selection of Provence rosé for another example. The Methuselah looks rubbish!

AHB wrote: ↑19:02 Wed 07 Oct 2020 You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.

Good point, and as my 450cl of the 10yo is the same I suspect you’re right.
Jacob makes an equally good point about large bottles generally being opaque.
Will be interesting to see what response I get back via C&B.

Sandeman 1927 at auction.

12 x Churchill 2005 unfiltered LBV

Ex. lodge, they threw in delivery to the UK and a rather tasteful corkscrew FOC

Their online ordering platform failed, but when I emailed to point this out, they replied promptly - and on a Sunday!

uncle tom wrote: ↑15:49 Sat 10 Oct 2020 12 x Churchill 2005 unfiltered LBV

Ex. lodge, they threw in delivery to the UK and a rather tasteful corkscrew FOC

Their online ordering platform failed, but when I emailed to point this out, they replied promptly - and on a Sunday!

Very interesting. I've just bought a bottle of the 2005 VP to open for the 67 Pall Mall Tasting. I should have thought to buy a bottle of the 2005 LBV to taste alongside it. When I compared the Quevedo 2005 VP and LBVs as part of the Quevedo tasting, I was very interested in the differences I found.

nac wrote: ↑20:50 Wed 07 Oct 2020

AHB wrote: ↑19:02 Wed 07 Oct 2020 You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.

Good point, and as my 450cl of the 10yo is the same I suspect you’re right.
Jacob makes an equally good point about large bottles generally being opaque.
Will be interesting to see what response I get back via C&B.

Got a response back via C&B (see below). Last statement is slightly wrong - C&B had three of these that went to private customers...

nac wrote: ↑12:11 Fri 16 Oct 2020 Got a response back via C&B (see below). Last statement is slightly wrong - C&B had three of these that went to private customers...

I recently went to a restaurant in the West End that had a drinks trolley that was topped by a decanting cradle containing a 4.5l bottle of one of the tawnies. I know that decanting cradles are not looked on favourable by most serious wine drinkers but I thought it was quite a fun thing for one of these giant bottles and would also (since the bottle was at an angle) avoid the low-fill-level issue, even when full...

There are 3 currently available online via wine-searcher, so "exclusive to the on trade" must not mean what they think it means.

If they weren't $800 - $1000 and would then require shipping to the US, I'd get one. But that's too steep for me for a 30-year old tawny.

I was gonna buy one of those 4.5l of their 20 yr tawny for our new house warming party. Figured it would be super cool to pour for guests. Then the Covid drama hit 2-days after we moved in. No party, no bottle, no fun

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑22:21 Fri 16 Oct 2020 I was gonna buy one of those 4.5l of their 20 yr tawny for our new house warming party. Figured it would be super cool to pour for guests. Then the Covid drama hit 2-days after we moved in. No party, no bottle, no fun

I'd have been there for that!

3 x Vesuvio 1992
3 x Niepoort 1983
3 x Smith Woodhouse 1980

These are three of my 'been hanging on to see if I could pick them up at auction' ports but I had a good result on something work-related so bought some port at retail to celebrate.

arrived a couple of days ago from Aldi, with a few LBV's

hadge wrote: ↑22:28 Wed 18 Nov 2020 arrived a couple of days ago from Aldi, with a few LBV's

Fletchers 10 year old 4.5l bottle.jpg

I'm very disappointed you didn't buy a six-pack of the 4.5litre bottles Harry!

Nice looking bottle and a box which my wife would be trying to convert into some sort of bee home before I'd managed to get the bottle out.

I’m interested in the history of these tawnies. As discussed above, they are made by Barão de Vilar which was the company set up by the van Zeller family in the mid-to-late 1990s after they sold Quinta do Noval to AXA. I wonder if it is their standard blend since the oddly-shaped decanters are also available under the BdV name and, also, as “Maynard’s Port”, too.

(Incidentally, whilst “Maynard’s” seems to be an alternative name from BdV, named after a family member, and is apparently also used for both VP and organic VP, I wonder if “Fletcher’s” is owned by Aldi since, back in 2002 it was made by Feist (RIP)?)

All of this seems a bit modern for them to be churning out really cheap 40-year-old tawnies.

As far as I can tell, there are two other Barão de Vilar brands: Palmer and Feuerheed. Palmer seems really new and although they have produced some Vintage Port its main offerings are a whole stack of colheitas, including some ancient ones, all of which seem quite competitively priced. Feuerheed is, of course, long established but there is very little information about whether it is more than a brand name online.

I suppose they may be buying the odd pipe here and there, but I would have thought that would not be consummate with having stocks to allow them to sell them so cheaply. Were they therefore bought wholesale from another shipper? Or could they be ex Quinta do Noval and stayed with the van Zeller family after the sale of the vineyard (perhaps as a family reserve rather than a company stock)?

I guess only the van Zellers might have the answer, but that never stopped speculation in the past...

Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.

Doggett wrote: ↑12:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020 Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.

Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).

JacobH wrote:

Doggett wrote: ↑12:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020 Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.

Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).

Feist is imported and distributed by Sogevinus’ import arm here in the states. Would lead me to believe it’s owned by Sogevinus.

It must be historical then, as the reason I mention it is that I was told by a Van Zeller that Feist was one of the brands they owned. I had mistakenly presumed currently, but historically would make more sense within the context of the conversation IIRC

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑14:49 Sun 22 Nov 2020

JacobH wrote:

Doggett wrote: ↑12:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020 Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.

Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).

Feist is imported and distributed by Sogevinus’ import arm here in the states. Would lead me to believe it’s owned by Sogevinus.

I didn’t realise that any of it was still produced. It’s not listed on the Sogevinus website. Perhaps it’s only sold in the states?

We visited BdV on both the 2018 and 2019 Port Harvest Tours, the former in VNdG and the latter in the Douro Superior. Much of this was explained to us on those visits, but unfortunately I didn't take notes on the history (only the wines) so only have memories.

Aside from BdV itself, Maynard's and Palmer are their 2 main brands now, as I recall. IIRC Palmer is intended to be somewhat more prestigious while Maynard's is intended to be their mainstream brand. But looking through my notes and scores I do not detect any particular differences in either product produced or quality of same.

The one interesting note is that Alvaro let us taste something he called a VVVV which he said (at that time) was going to be released mostly unchanged as a Palmer 40 Year Old. It isn't a BdV wine - it's something they purchased. It is much older that 40 years old, but its profile will fit the category nicely.

Since I'm here, I just managed to pick up (from auction):

12 x 1985 Smith Woodhouse ($52.50 ea)
2 x 1987 Taylor Vargellas ($93.50 ea)
1 x 1966 Graham ($210)

All good prices for the US (buyer's premium is included above), but probably nothing to brag about in the UK. I've been trying to find TV87 for 10 years since that's our anniversary year, and this is the first time I've been able to actually win.

Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:26 Mon 23 Nov 2020 Since I'm here, I just managed to pick up (from auction):

12 x 1985 Smith Woodhouse ($52.50 ea)
2 x 1987 Taylor Vargellas ($93.50 ea)
1 x 1966 Graham ($210)

All good prices for the US (buyer's premium is included above), but probably nothing to brag about in the UK. I've been trying to find TV87 for 10 years since that's our anniversary year, and this is the first time I've been able to actually win.

Nice prices for the US! Out of curiosity, was this an online or on-site auction?

AHB wrote: ↑17:55 Fri 20 Nov 2020

hadge wrote: ↑22:28 Wed 18 Nov 2020 arrived a couple of days ago from Aldi, with a few LBV's

Fletchers 10 year old 4.5l bottle.jpg

I'm very disappointed you didn't buy a six-pack of the 4.5litre bottles Harry!

Nice looking bottle and a box which my wife would be trying to convert into some sort of bee home before I'd managed to get the bottle out.

haha Alex, I did think of getting a few but ended up with just the one, wasn't sure what the 10 year old would be like.

slateshalehead wrote: ↑20:37 Mon 23 Nov 2020

Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:26 Mon 23 Nov 2020 Since I'm here, I just managed to pick up (from auction):

12 x 1985 Smith Woodhouse ($52.50 ea)
2 x 1987 Taylor Vargellas ($93.50 ea)
1 x 1966 Graham ($210)

All good prices for the US (buyer's premium is included above), but probably nothing to brag about in the UK. I've been trying to find TV87 for 10 years since that's our anniversary year, and this is the first time I've been able to actually win.

Nice prices for the US! Out of curiosity, was this an online or on-site auction?

Online. I have only ever been to a handful of in-person auctions, and those were all charity events.

I just went back to see what next week's auction looks like (www.winebid.com) and they have several more G66 available now. I doubt that I will bid on those, though... as good as G66 is, it's still fairly pricey to be stocking up on it.

Glenn E. wrote: ↑22:05 Mon 23 Nov 2020

slateshalehead wrote: ↑20:37 Mon 23 Nov 2020

Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:26 Mon 23 Nov 2020 Since I'm here, I just managed to pick up (from auction):

12 x 1985 Smith Woodhouse ($52.50 ea)
2 x 1987 Taylor Vargellas ($93.50 ea)
1 x 1966 Graham ($210)

All good prices for the US (buyer's premium is included above), but probably nothing to brag about in the UK. I've been trying to find TV87 for 10 years since that's our anniversary year, and this is the first time I've been able to actually win.

Nice prices for the US! Out of curiosity, was this an online or on-site auction?

Online. I have only ever been to a handful of in-person auctions, and those were all charity events.

I just went back to see what next week's auction looks like (www.winebid.com) and they have several more G66 available now. I doubt that I will bid on those, though... as good as G66 is, it's still fairly pricey to be stocking up on it.

Corney & Barrow have a largish stock of bottles of G66 at £180 each retail. If we ignore the expected auction vs retail difference then maybe $210 doesn’t seem too pricey and not wildly different from the UK?

nac wrote: ↑22:34 Mon 23 Nov 2020 Corney & Barrow have a largish stock of bottles of G66 at £180 each retail. If we ignore the expected auction vs retail difference then maybe $210 doesn’t seem too pricey and not wildly different from the UK?

Oh, I think $210 (which is $180 + buyer's premium) is actually quite a good price for G66. It's just sufficiently high that I can't really afford to buy too many of them.

There were 12 x T55 available last week at $405 each which - for something that old - is a screaming deal. But I didn't buy any because no matter how good the deal, $405 +17% is still a lot of money for 1 bottle of wine. FWIW there are still 8 of them left in this week's auction.

The N31 didn't sell at $3460, either. In that case it might be a function of the label which is unlike any Noval label I've ever seen.

Some Of those bottles obviously come from
Terrible storage. I looked at them and wouldn’t bid on anyone of those 55’s.

12 x OBV 1983 at auction (Tate Ward). £400 delivered. I'm very happy with that. I know it's Christmas season but there is a LOT of port up for auction over the next week.

Some TTF (3 x 1986, 1 x 1988) and TQDV (01) at Straker Chadwick. I paid a full price but TTF 88 in bottle is as rare as hen's teeth and I needed one for the Terra Feita tasting as all I had was a half...

I paid a full price but TTF 88 in bottle is rare as hen's teeth

You should have asked - I drank my one and only TTF '88 a fortnight ago!

uncle tom wrote: ↑11:55 Mon 14 Dec 2020

I paid a full price but TTF 88 in bottle is rare as hen's teeth

You should have asked - I drank my one and only TTF '88 a fortnight ago!

I thought you saved the last bottles of ports for the legacy port bottle library!?

I thought you saved the last bottles of ports for the legacy port bottle library!?

I save the last bottle of each vintage - not the last bottle of every wine

uncle tom wrote: ↑17:36 Mon 14 Dec 2020

I thought you saved the last bottles of ports for the legacy port bottle library!?

I save the last bottle of each vintage - not the last bottle of every wine

That is... as I should have expected... a much better idea!

That is... as I should have expected... a much better idea!

Anyway, if you're doing a TTF vertical, I have the '82, '86 & '96 available

Thank you Tom, much appreciated. I hope we will not need to call on you; now that nac has obtained by grace of AB (& C&B) the otherwise-unobtainable 1991 we have the full set between the likely attendees...

3 bottles of 1975 Rebello Valente
2 bottles of 1980 Sandeman

In an effort to avoid JDAW cornering the market in £9 bottles of Graham 2015 LBV I visited Waitrose this morning and bought the only 4 bottles they had.

I hadn’t realised there was a range of colours of the tubes. I now have red, blue and gold.

Sadly JDAW seems to have more influence in South Bristol than I'd expected and I had no luck finding the 2015 Graham LBV on today's expedition. However I did manage to soften that blow by picking up a 2009 Bomfim and 2x 2015 Cockburn LBV for £40 total, so it wasn't a total loss.

Fearing a TPF drain on the country's resources, I went online and ordered - to date they have *said* that they will deliver to me !

Jasper May wrote: ↑16:49 Wed 30 Dec 2020 Fearing a TPF drain on the country's resources, I went online and ordered - to date they have *said* that they will deliver to me !

When I tried to buy some last night, it was marked “out-of-stock” which I presume is the effect! Thankfully, it seemed to be available again this morning.

It's a Graham's LBV, I'll be shocked if it's not available until well into the spring, and probably on offer at these kinds of prices again.

That’s a very fair point, although I wonder when they will move to the 2016? I am starting to see some of those releases for sale.

I suspect, like many others, I have started my 2021 purchasing with (a 3-pack of) Graham 2015 LBV, although I am celebrating that purchase with a Dow 2008 Bomfin.

Waitrose Cellars have stock of the 2015 Grahams LBV and 2015 Sandeman LBV, both on offer (the Sandeman at £12.95 a bottle), so I've purchased some of both to keep me going for the foreseeable future. I'm intrigued to see what the 2016-2018 LBVs offer over the next couple of years.

I'm intrigued to see what the 2016-2018 LBVs offer over the next couple of years.

I'm looking out for the Niepoort 2016 LBV with interest. 2016 was the year Niepoort had it's big family upset, and Dirk couldn't bring himself to declare a regular VP, only declaring a small amount of Bioma. Officially, it didn't make the grade, but I got the strong impression that wasn't the real reason.

Will the best juice go into the LBV? I'm not sure, but I doubt Dirk is that keen to be reminded of those dark months by having large numbers of casks aging with that year on..

uncle tom wrote:

I'm intrigued to see what the 2016-2018 LBVs offer over the next couple of years.

I'm looking out for the Niepoort 2016 LBV with interest. 2016 was the year Niepoort had it's big family upset, and Dirk couldn't bring himself to declare a regular VP, only declaring a small amount of Bioma. Officially, it didn't make the grade, but I got the strong impression that wasn't the real reason.

Will the best juice go into the LBV? I'm not sure, but I doubt Dirk is that keen to be reminded of those dark months by having large numbers of casks aging with that year on..

That is certainly good to know! The Niepoort LBV seems to be less widely available than some of the bigger houses so I'll have to keep an eye out. Portugal Vineyards was a useful source but I'm unclear on whether that's a possible option for 2021. Thanks for sharing the information!