ThePortForum.com

How was it made?

• Start with an empty imperial. This will be easier for you than it was for me.

• Rinse and allow to dry.

• A hole must be drilled in the glass. At the bottom of the side a bottle has thicker glass: the hole should be above that, but not by much. Mark location for hole.

• A drill bit will be needed. The illustrated bit worked well, and made a hole 10mm in diameter.




• Watch this YouTube video which advises keeping the hole cool with running water. So the label must be protected from the water. Cover the label with dry towel, and then keep that towel in place with much cling-film. Tightly wrap the bottom of the cling film with tape, so that water can’t creep up.

• In the sink the bottle is to rest on a(nother) towel. Put a sieve over the sink hole so that the water’s exit isn’t blocked, and arrange the large towel such that the bottle doesn’t directly touch the sink.

• In case a splinter of glass should jump out, wear the obvious safety kit: eye protection (we used polarised 3D cinema specs); long sleeves; gloves.

• Four hands: two holding bottle; two holding drill.

• Running cold water, slow drill speed, medium pressure, and some time: nice clean 1cm hole drilled in glass.

• Rinse bottle, and allow to dry.

• From the electrical department of Acre Lane Timber Merchants I had bought a twisted three-core burgundy-coloured wire (valiant efforts to find a ‘Fonseca 1985’-coloured wire had failed — maybe that is a specialist market). This wire was threaded through.

• As ballast, about 1kg of black glass pebbles were gently pushed into the bottle.

• Do the obvious with: brass safety switch lamp holder; screw-in extension tube; bored rubber bung (of which I bought only the last from amazon). And add a plug to the other end of the wire.

Regrets?

• Definitely I should have acquired more than one of these imperials.

• Perhaps the inside of the imperial should have been painted black (pour and shake, or spray). Seeing the wire is very Norman Foster, but really, who wants Norman Foster?

• I’m not terribly fond of the lamp shade, but it is what was available.

Pray tell, what does the little attached label say?

djewesbury wrote:Pray tell, what does the little attached label say?

Late during the evening of the dinner a few people came over to me to report that the bottle had been stolen. I sprang up (allow a little mis-recalled exaggeration), and following some confusion (that being accurately recalled) other people reported that it was my wife what done it. So the label has been retained.

Well done Julian. A fitting memento of your successful struggle.
You were very careful indeed when using the glass / ceramic bit. That is highly commendable. But did you use a small piece of masking tape taped to the bottle to lessen the possibility of the bit skidding on the surface?

First of all a good use for this bottle.

jdaw1 wrote:Regrets?

• Perhaps the inside of the imperial should have been painted black (pour and shake, or spray). Seeing the wire is very Norman Foster, but really, who wants Norman Foster?

I think you could still paint it black. Then it would also look more like a full bottle of port.

jdaw1 wrote: • I’m not terribly fond of the lamp shade, but it is what was available.

You're right. But if you come across a better one in the futre, then just replace it.

djewesbury wrote:But did you use a small piece of masking tape taped to the bottle to lessen the possibility of the bit skidding on the surface?

No need. With the drill turning slowly, it did not skid at all.

AW77 wrote:I think you could still paint it black. Then it would also look more like a full bottle of port.

How would one paint it such that it looked like a bottle of Port with an into-neck fill level?

jdaw1 wrote:

AW77 wrote:I think you could still paint it black. Then it would also look more like a full bottle of port.

How would one paint it such that it looked like a bottle of Port with an into-neck fill level?

Perhaps you could use Scotch tape to cover the neck so that it won't be painted black? Or you could use a small baloon, insert it into the neck, blow it up so that it covers the neck, paint the inside of the bottle, let it dry, then let the air out of the balloon and remove the balloon from the neck.

I like the suggestion of the balloon except that having filled the neck of the bottle with the balloon you then suggest painting the inside of the bottle. This confuses me.
I think masking the inside of the neck with good quality masking tape, pressed firmly down to prevent bleeding under the tape edge, should provide a good solution. Then use your 'paint swirling' method (spray is likely to be uneven in a bottle that size).

AW77 wrote:Perhaps you could use Scotch tape to cover the neck so that it won't be painted black? Or you could use a small baloon, insert it into the neck, blow it up so that it covers the neck, paint the inside of the bottle, let it dry, then let the air out of the balloon and remove the balloon from the neck.

Very good. Drill hold in bottle. Seal hole with tape. Using a funnel with a very long spout pour in a small quantity of black paint. Remove funnel; inflate balloon; Lie bottle on its side and roll; bottle upside down and shake; bottle right way up and remove hole-sealing tape; drain excess paint though drilled hold; remove balloon.

Would that work?

djewesbury wrote:I think masking the inside of the neck with good quality masking tape, pressed firmly down to prevent bleeding under the tape edge, should provide a good solution. Then use your 'paint swirling' method (spray is likely to be uneven in a bottle that size).

How would you get the masking tape to make a smooth horizontal circle?

jdaw1 wrote:How would one paint it such that it looked like a bottle of Port with an into-neck fill level?

Perhaps:

• Put a cork, or use other sealing mechanism, to close the hole you have drilled.
• Fill the bottle with black paint up to the fill level required; using a funnel or tubing to ensure it does not touch above this level inside the bottle while being filled.
• Wait
• Remove cork (or other method) from hole, and allow bottle to drain remaining paint leaving solid layer on inside of glass.

jdaw1 wrote:How would you get the masking tape to make a smooth horizontal circle?

How far down the neck are we talking - finger length, or further? If the former, trial and error and a steady eye.

A different variation, that doesn’t use 6L of paint. Drill hole. Seal that hole with wax. Fill bottle with water to desired level. Top up with hot wax. Allow wax to set. Unseal drilled hole, water draining out. Allow bottle to dry (which, given tiny air hole, will take some time). Funnel a little black paint through drilled hole, and rotate bottle such that it gets everywhere that it should. Allow to dry (which, given tiny air hole, will take some time). Remove top wax.

Messy, and possibly rather fiddly when wax removal takes place.
Tape the masking tape to the short side of a piece of A5 paper. Insert while bottle is horizontal, may be easier to align that way.

jdaw1 wrote:A different variation, that doesn’t use 6L of paint. Drill hole. Seal that hole with wax. Fill bottle with water to desired level. Top up with hot wax. Allow wax to set. Unseal drilled hole, water draining out. Allow bottle to dry (which, given tiny air hole, will take some time). Funnel a little black paint through drilled hole, and rotate bottle such that it gets everywhere that it should. Allow to dry (which, given tiny air hole, will take some time). Remove top wax.

I considered a similar suggestion with wax (or cooking fat), but felt it would (a) be difficult to remove cleanly without potentially removing some paint, and (b) unlikely to have a nice clean line, unless perhaps filled very slowly from the neck upwards (i.e. inverted submersion). Didn't seem likely to give a clean result; 6L of paint costs more, but perhaps better result, plus re-usable?
Alternatively, lose the shade (you don't like it anyway) and make it a bottle-lamp?

Go to a craft store and buy a bag of black sand. Plug the gap between the drilled-hole and the wire using something. Fill the bottle with sand to the desired level.

Combine the masking tape, water, balloon and wax concept. Mask most of the inside of the neck, but not as far down as the point where the paint line is required. Plug bottom hole, fill with water to desired level, add hot wax, but only perhaps 15mm. Allow wax to set, unplug bottom hole, proceed as outlined in the above post to paint inside of bottle black. Once the paint has dried, punch out the wax and remove, but leave the masking tape.

Removing the wax is likely to have flaked the paint at the point where paint met wax, leaving a jagged line. Now insert the balloon into the bottle via the base hole and inflate until it reaches the point where the wax had previously been. Carefully add a small quantity of black paint via the open neck, enough for the paint to make a perfect level line around the neck, but not reaching the level of the masking tape.

Once satisfied with the resultant perfect line, deflate the balloon allowing the small quantity of paint to fall into the already black bottle. Allow to dry. Remove the masking tape. Sit back and enjoy.

Why did you steal the bottle from Juiian?

Norman Foster wasn't stupid, was he. Look at all the hassle he avoided simply by saying to people "It's Modern Art, very fashionable."

Incidentally, small rubber grommets such as these from Maplin (various sizes and profiles available) will plug your cord-hole nicely, requiring only a little glue to make a seal.

AHB wrote:Norman Foster wasn't stupid

Highly debatable.

flash_uk wrote:Combine the masking tape, water, balloon and wax concept. Mask most of the inside of the neck, but not as far down as the point where the paint line is required. Plug bottom hole, fill with water to desired level, add hot wax, but only perhaps 15mm. Allow wax to set, unplug bottom hole, proceed as outlined in the above post to paint inside of bottle black. Once the paint has dried, punch out the wax and remove, but leave the masking tape.

Removing the wax is likely to have flaked the paint at the point where paint met wax, leaving a jagged line. Now insert the balloon into the bottle via the base hole and inflate until it reaches the point where the wax had previously been. Carefully add a small quantity of black paint via the open neck, enough for the paint to make a perfect level line around the neck, but not reaching the level of the masking tape.

Once satisfied with the resultant perfect line, deflate the balloon allowing the small quantity of paint to fall into the already black bottle. Allow to dry. Remove the masking tape. Sit back and enjoy.

OK. Four years in art college and twenty years as someone required to make things permits me to offer the opinion that this would be a wild carry-on.

I still think black sand is the best idea.

In second place: buy two bottles of Ribena and a rubber grommet from Maplin. Seal the small hole and fill the bottle to the required level with Ribena and water. Much more authentic than black paint or sand.

Actually, that is now the best idea.

DRT wrote:Ribena and water

I forgot this was F85. Just buy 6 litres of Ribena.

DRT wrote:

DRT wrote:Ribena and water

I forgot this was F85. Just buy 6 litres of Ribena.

And run a cord with an electric current through it. That is, as you say, the very best idea.

+ 1

I think that filling the bottle with anything that is difficult / tedious / awkward to pour out should you need to (e.g., if fitting a different / longer cord) is counterproductive.
I have submitted my idea. I know it will work. I know it is easy. I leave it you to decide.

djewesbury wrote:

DRT wrote:

DRT wrote:Ribena and water

I forgot this was F85. Just buy 6 litres of Ribena.

And run a cord with an electric current through it. That is, as you say, the very best idea.

The last time I checked the plastic coating on electric wires was waterproof.

As a homage to another thread:

1. Are there electric wires in your house?
2. Are they delivered via an underground power supply?
3. Is the ground in Northern Ireland free from water?
4. Nuff said.

Are the electric cables in the ground very heavily insulated and do they run inside plastic conduit?
Is the shroud on Julian's electric cable extremely thin and made of rubber, which perishes?
Julian, despite Derek's devil-may-care attitude to running 240V through coloured water (the colour will precipitate out after a while, of course), please remember that your family love you and do not fool about with this method.

djewesbury wrote:the colour will precipitate out after a while, of course

So you agree the method is authentic?

All that HSE stuff is paranoia gone mad. Lamps have 5 amp fuses for good reasons. This is one of them.

PS: I am surprise that someone with Professor Jewesbury's intelligence and education believes that the millions of miles of electricity-carrying conduit beneath the soil of the UK is completely dry. Wow. Just wow.

PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

DRT wrote:

djewesbury wrote:the colour will precipitate out after a while, of course

So you agree the method is authentic?

All that HSE stuff is paranoia gone mad. Lamps have 5 amp fuses for good reasons. This is one of them.

PS: I am surprise that someone with Professor Jewesbury's intelligence and education believes that the millions of miles of electricity-carrying conduit beneath the soil of the UK is completely dry. Wow. Just wow.

PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

Millions of miles? The majority is above ground.
One that is rated for exterior use would be thick and heavy, not flexible, and would require a larger hole. Tedious in the extreme.
I am amazed that someone with the street smarts of Citizen Turnbull would suggest such an arse-about-face ^* method of going about this. Really. The forces of reason have spoken. And Derek has heckled from outside the hall.

^* Second time this wonderful phrase has been used in as many days on I believe.

Derek. Please do an experiment using the method you suggest and report back.

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:Combine the masking tape, water, balloon and wax concept. Mask most of the inside of the neck, but not as far down as the point where the paint line is required. Plug bottom hole, fill with water to desired level, add hot wax, but only perhaps 15mm. Allow wax to set, unplug bottom hole, proceed as outlined in the above post to paint inside of bottle black. Once the paint has dried, punch out the wax and remove, but leave the masking tape.

Removing the wax is likely to have flaked the paint at the point where paint met wax, leaving a jagged line. Now insert the balloon into the bottle via the base hole and inflate until it reaches the point where the wax had previously been. Carefully add a small quantity of black paint via the open neck, enough for the paint to make a perfect level line around the neck, but not reaching the level of the masking tape.

Once satisfied with the resultant perfect line, deflate the balloon allowing the small quantity of paint to fall into the already black bottle. Allow to dry. Remove the masking tape. Sit back and enjoy.

OK. Four years in art college and twenty years as someone required to make things permits me to offer the opinion that this would be a wild carry-on.

this would be a wild carry-on is a very Northern Irish turn of phrase! Which of course if spelt phonetically as normally delivered would be ...a wile carry-on

DRT wrote: PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

I think these cables are designed for rain (so some humidity once in a while), but not for constant immersion in water.
Plus, even if you got thoroughly insulated cables (that stay thoroughly insulated), you would need a thoroughly tight seal for the hole at the bottom of the bottle (otherwise the liquid would soil Julian's desk).

flash_uk wrote: this would be a wild carry-on is a very Northern Irish turn of phrase! Which of course if spelt phonetically as normally delivered would be ...a wile carry-on

I was going to say this would be a wile han'lin' but I thought it would require too much explanation!

AW77 wrote:

DRT wrote: PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

I think these cables are designed for rain (so some humidity once in a while), but not for constant immersion in water.
Plus, even if you got thoroughly insulated cables (that stay thoroughly insulated), you would need a thoroughly tight seal for the hole at the bottom of the bottle (otherwise the liquid would soil Julian's desk).

Thank goodness for another voice of reason here in the wilderness.
Julian, I think you should fill it with blood, which will congeal over time and be about the right colour, and form a natural level. I'm sure Derek has some tips on how to get 9 litres of blood out of the receptacle in which you are already carrying it.

djewesbury wrote:

DRT wrote:

djewesbury wrote:the colour will precipitate out after a while, of course

So you agree the method is authentic?

All that HSE stuff is paranoia gone mad. Lamps have 5 amp fuses for good reasons. This is one of them.

PS: I am surprise that someone with Professor Jewesbury's intelligence and education believes that the millions of miles of electricity-carrying conduit beneath the soil of the UK is completely dry. Wow. Just wow.

PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

Millions of miles? The majority is above ground.
One that is rated for exterior use would be thick and heavy, not flexible, and would require a larger hole. Tedious in the extreme.
I am amazed that someone with the street smarts of Citizen Turnbull would suggest such an arse-about-face ^* method of going about this. Really. The forces of reason have spoken. And Derek has heckled from outside the hall.

I now realise where I went wrong. Julian, please ensure you use a three-core wire so that the lamp can be earthed. That should stop the namby-pamby worriers from complaining.

DRT wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

DRT wrote:

djewesbury wrote:the colour will precipitate out after a while, of course

So you agree the method is authentic?

All that HSE stuff is paranoia gone mad. Lamps have 5 amp fuses for good reasons. This is one of them.

PS: I am surprise that someone with Professor Jewesbury's intelligence and education believes that the millions of miles of electricity-carrying conduit beneath the soil of the UK is completely dry. Wow. Just wow.

PPS: no harm in swapping the cable for one that is rated for exterior use.

Millions of miles? The majority is above ground.
One that is rated for exterior use would be thick and heavy, not flexible, and would require a larger hole. Tedious in the extreme.
I am amazed that someone with the street smarts of Citizen Turnbull would suggest such an arse-about-face ^* method of going about this. Really. The forces of reason have spoken. And Derek has heckled from outside the hall.

I now realise where I went wrong. Julian, please ensure you use a three-core wire so that the lamp can be earthed. That should stop the namby-pamby worriers from complaining.

Of course! Fill it with raw meat. The blood will gradually seep out and fill the bottle.
Or maybe use Derek's blood?

Derek's suggestion to use black sand is a good idea. His suggestion to submerge non-rated 240V mains wiring is not!

PhilW wrote:Derek's suggestion to use black sand is a good idea. His suggestion to submerge non-rated 240V mains wiring is not!

+1.
Derek's idea with the sand is really good (I didn't know that there was black sand. Probably from a beach with oil-spill ...). The sand would also work as ballast.

The sand makes it incredibly heavy. Not good. Also any compromising of the seal = sand on the desk.
Phil, thank goodness that someone with a high level of professional technical expertise has come by to agree with André and me that keeping electricity and water separate is not just political correctness gone mad.

I refer back to my earlier comment. Norman Foster has been proven to be intelligent - his approach spared several hours of his life that would otherwise have been spent on pointless debate about waterproof cables and electricity. Brutalist as a style seems to have some advantages.

But that's any architect. Including the really bad ones. It doesn't make him not stupid. Also, it implies that anyone who is in the position to delegate things to other people can't be wrong. This is fallacious.

PhilW wrote:Derek's suggestion to use black sand is a good idea.

AW77 wrote:Derek's idea with the sand is really good

My ideas appear to be gaining popular support. Do you think David Cameron will insist on me being invited to participate in the election TV debate?

Ed Miliband's ideas are more popular than yours. Popularity is a bad guide of either efficacy or right-mindedness.

You lot are skilled at filling a good conversation with irrelevant rudeness.

djewesbury wrote:The sand makes it incredibly heavy.

The weight is a concern, especially if it would break a lamp being moved.

jdaw1 wrote:You lot are skilled at filling a good conversation with irrelevant rudeness.

"Oh give over, we enjoy it," as Rita Tushingham's mum says in A Taste of Honey.
But some of us seriously do not want you to experiment with water-borne electrical delivery devices in your home.

My suggested approach is still the best offered

flash_uk wrote:My suggested approach is still the best offered

For anyone incapable of simply inserting a piece of masking tape and with several hours to spare, yes; this is a sensible option. Honestly, you'd think you lot had never painted the inside of things before.