Cockburn Vertical, Tue 2nd Oct 2018

[jdaw1]

This evening the first post will be updated from my computer. If we are too many (i.e., more than thirteen of us), then there will be a wait list.

Date looking like Tuesday the 2nd of October.

There are some matters to discuss.

¶ Post-1977 pre-Symington Cockburn was rubbish, as was 1975. Exclude?

¶ Without those, is there too big a gap? Do we exclude the Symington vintages?

¶ The 2008 tasting was done over the whole day, there being lunch and evening sessions. Previous answers affect whether we do that again. But we might have to even without the youngsters.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Currently I'm free on either the 2nd or the 16th so would be happy to go with Tom's and Julian's preference for the 2nd.

I'd rather not re-taste the vintages younger than 1977. They're not great. And SFE vintages are still too young to be at their best.

If we restrict the tasting to vintages 1977 and older (including 1975, which might not be as bad as it was) and a maximum of 14 vintages then we should be able to cope with this as a single sitting.

Where would 14 pre-1977 vintages of Cockburn take us? 1977, 1975, 1970, 1967, 1963, 1960, 1955, 1950, 1947, 1935, 1927, 1924, 1920, 1917. Once the line-up is as complete as we can get it, I'll fill a gap somewhere. I have a decent selection of Cockburn vintages.

[DaveRL]

I currently have 70 and 83 (which agree isn't great). Plenty of time to aquire something else, or adopt.

[idj123]

This thread was quite prescient since before I saw it (on a circuitous trip into work this morning) and bagged the last seat, I had decanted a bottle of the Ck77 (the recent release) this morning. This is in preparation of a small cheese and Port soiree where it will be up against a G77 and a 40yr tawny.

[DRT]

Currently I'm free on either the 2nd or the 16th so would be happy to go with Tom's and Julian's preference for the 2nd.

I'd rather not re-taste the vintages younger than 1977. They're not great. And SFE vintages are still too young to be at their best.

If we restrict the tasting to vintages 1977 and older (including 1975, which might not be as bad as it was) and a maximum of 14 vintages then we should be able to cope with this as a single sitting.

Where would 14 pre-1977 vintages of Cockburn take us? 1977, 1975, 1970, 1967, 1963, 1960, 1955, 1950, 1947, 1935, 1927, 1924, 1920, 1917. Once the line-up is as complete as we can get it, I'll fill a gap somewhere. I have a decent selection of Cockburn vintages.

That is not a shabby line-up. I agree we should exclude everything post-1977.

As hard as it is to admit, I'm not sure I or my palate would have the stamina for the all day affair we had in 2008. I think approximately 14 vintages (being a maximum of 20 plus or minus 6) is sufficient in a single sitting.

[jdaw1]

Decisions.
• Tuesday 2^nd October 2018. For which the Red Room has been booked.
• There are many of us. Much as I’d like an Industry Guest, I also want us. So I’ve put WPS ahead of any putative guest.
• One session. Pre-1977. As AHB has said.
• /2alph (initial presumably ‘R’): you were fifteenth, so aren’t yet in. Book not yet flights from Switzerland.
• We need bottles.

I currently have 70 and 83 (which agree isn't great). Plenty of time to aquire something else, or adopt.

Adoption usual in horizontals, in which most (non-NN) bottles have similar cost. In a vertical such as this there is usually some financial rebalancing: bottles are ‘sold’ to the tasting; those under-providing bottles instead provide money; those over-providing bottles receive money.


AHB edited first post (for which thanks). I have re-edited. Checking of work welcomed.


I thought of this Ck vertical whilst editing the list of placemats (c.f. discussion). The placemats for this will echo that of the 2008 tasting (/GillSans and /Palatino-BoldItalic, and /ShapesToUse [/Star] def; /ColourSchemeTitles /MidGrey def; /InlineTitles false def).

[DRT]

• There are many of us. Much as I’d like an Industry Guest, I also want us. So I’ve put WPS ahead of any putative guest.

A very good decision.

[jdaw1]

• There are many of us. Much as I’d like an Industry Guest, I also want us. So I’ve put WPS ahead of any putative guest.

A very good decision.

There might not be a guest. We might wear our own cufflinks.

[DRT]

Is there still stock of the '77 that was gifted to us after the tasting ten years ago?

That stock was entrusted to four of our group, and is now mildly depleted. I still have one or two (I need to check), and that is the bottle I mentioned earlier - which comes free of any re-balancing of finances.

I also have some of the re-corked bottles, as do others. It might be interesting to have both the old and the new in this line-up.

[jdaw1]

I also have some of the re-corked bottles, as do others. It might be interesting to have both the old and the new in this line-up.

Decision: yes, both.

[DRT]

There might not be a guest. We might wear our own cufflinks.

If no guests have been invited then there I would vote for it being 14 of us. Cufflinks should be compulsory.

[jdaw1]

If no guests have been invited

So far, this has been a ‘private’ discussion between ourselves.

[uncle tom]

My notes suggest that the '75 blossoms after a long decant.

Have never seen a Cockburn '17..

[PhilW]

I'm in. I have Ck60, plus Ck77 (recent release) and CkC2000, the latter two both in storage though happy to take either out if needed.

(original post now updated after checking)

[WS1]

My notes suggest that the '75 blossoms after a long decant.

Have never seen a Cockburn '17..

agreed; stupid me drank up too early the sixpack of Ck 75 you let go after the Cockburns sale before Cockburns was sold to the Symmingtons...

I do not think we should look out for a 17 but a 12 which so far I liked most of all Ck I tasted. Obviously they are in very scarce supply...

regards

WS1

[WS1]

• There are many of us. Much as I’d like an Industry Guest, I also want us. So I’ve put WPS ahead of any putative guest.

A very good decision.

There might not be a guest. We might wear our own cufflinks.

Thank you!

[Axel P]

I would have:

1983, 1985 (big risk of failure, only one bottle left for academic reasons)
1987 Tua
1992 Canais
1994
1995 Canais
1997
2000
2003
2003 Canais

[jdaw1]

Decisions.
…
• One session. Pre-1977. As AHB has said.

Axel: if you believe this decision is very wrong, please make your case. (AHB’s argument made at post 23 in reply to my questions at post 22.)

[Axel P]

+ Wolfgang Giehrl.

[jdaw1]

My notes suggest that the '75 blossoms after a long decant.

Tom: there is a risk that we might hope for several bottles from you, and I’m reluctant to exhaust your hospitality on a 1975. But your observation is interesting.

Question for team: should we have two ’75s, a pair from the same case with similar fill levels, decanted 3 and 27 hours before?

[uncle tom]

Question for team: should we have two ’75s, a pair from the same case with similar fill levels, decanted 3 and 27 hours before?

I could supply that.

there is a risk that we might hope for several bottles from you, and I’m reluctant to exhaust your hospitality on a 1975

I could supply the twin of the '50 bottle opened a decade ago, and have plenty of all declared vintages after that.

Can easily supply a '35 - any interest in the 1908 magnum?

[jdaw1]

Question for team: should we have two ’75s, a pair from the same case with similar fill levels, decanted 3 and 27 hours before?

I could supply that.

there is a risk that we might hope for several bottles from you, and I’m reluctant to exhaust your hospitality on a 1975

I could supply the twin of the '50 bottle opened a decade ago, and have plenty of all declared vintages after that.

Can easily supply a '35 - any interest in the 1908 magnum?

Yes please in general: 1908 magnum (already on the draft placemats); 1935 (about to be); two × 1975.

Charles has already offered the 1950, so that might be from him.

My doctor says that the uncomfortable tightness I feel in my torso is caused by multiple problems: ‘Cockburn 1912 deficiency syndrome’, ‘Cockburn 1927 deficiency disorder’, and perhaps also ‘Cockburn 1900 deficiency malady’. Surely my friends will rescue me from these terrible medical ailments?

[DRT]

My doctor says that the uncomfortable tightness I feel in my torso is caused by multiple problems: ‘Cockburn 1912 deficiency syndrome’, ‘Cockburn 1927 deficiency disorder’, and perhaps also ‘Cockburn 1900 deficiency malady’. Surely my friends will rescue me from these terrible medical ailments?

By strange coincidence, my orthopaedic consultant told me that the arthritis in my left knee was caused by a deficiency of Cockburn 1947 whilst the right knee shows classic signs of a lack of Cockburn 1955. The blood pressure issue is apparently more difficult to pin down and "a wide range of old Cockburn" has been prescribed.

[PhilW]

Can easily supply a '35 - any interest in the 1908 magnum?

Yes please in general: 1908 magnum (already on the draft placemats); 1935 (about to be); two × 1975.

I am very happy to see the '08 included as this is a port I would very much like to try. I did contemplate responding to Alex's "what do we get by counting back 14 vintages from '77" and asking why on earth we would stop there when the next two would be '27 and '12, though not having them to offer I held off; However, since we are including the '08 (hurray!) and the question has been asked, I would very definitely agree with including the '12 and '27 if we have access to them, and to test their curative properties!

[forest26]

I have 27, 35, 47, 55, 60, 63, 67, 70, 75, 77 (recent release)

There is an outside chance I may have a spare 12 - but would need to find it.

[uncle tom]

should we have two ’75s, a pair from the same case with similar fill levels

Checking my stock I notice that in case B057 I have two bottles that not only have the same visual fill level, but when inspected last April, both weighed in at exactly 1401.6g

[jdaw1]

I have 27, 35, 47, 55, 60, 63, 67, 70, 75, 77 (recent release)

There is an outside chance I may have a spare 12 - but would need to find it.

Of which we are currently missing ’27 and ’12. Yes please.

[forest26]

27 confirmed and put aside - Don't get too excited about the '12... proving a little difficult to locate.

[jdaw1]

27 confirmed and put aside - Don't get too excited about the '12... proving a little difficult to locate.

{Swoons}

Thank you.

Cockburn is, of the 1927s, third equal. In a top top vintage, too.

Like an infatuated teenager I'm still hoping, despite mother's warnings, that the 1912 will fall for my charms.

[benread]

Could you pop me on the wait list please. 10 years ago I sent some bloke I had never met £200 to attend this. Thankfully DRT was to be trusted!


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[Axel P]

Do we want to stop at 77? Despite 83 and 85 (which are not really worth opening) I could contribute 87 Tua and 92 Canais. 94 and 97 (and 2000 Cockburn and Canais) as well?

Axel

[uncle tom]

I have opened three bottles of Co83 in the past, from two cases, of which one was entirely VA free, one had just the slightest hint of VA and the third (which had suffered cork failure) was strangely 'woody' but was otherwise free of VA or TCA. All three were very dark and intense for their age.

Although this wine has a higher than average incidence of duff bottles, I'm not inclined to write it off completely..

[jdaw1]

Do we want to stop at 77? Despite 83 and 85 (which are not really worth opening) I could contribute 87 Tua and 92 Canais. 94 and 97 (and 2000 Cockburn and Canais) as well?

Thank you for the offer.

There has been a decision to keep it at one session. Some of us — obviously not me — are older than we were, and two sessions was thought too much.

Fourteen people, one session: I’m deciding a limit of twenty Ports. We’re seven behind that at the moment, but not all those who can offer mature bottles have yet done so. If, after that, we’re light, then I will accept your kind offer of the likes of Tua 1987 and Canais 1992.

Is that fair? Does anybody disagree? If yes, why?

[Constandia]

Yes please, I can see most places are booked so please add me to the waiting list. Thank you:)

[idj123]

27 confirmed and put aside - Don't get too excited about the '12... proving a little difficult to locate.

{Swoons}

Thank you.

Cockburn is, of the 1927s, third equal. In a top top vintage, too.

Like an infatuated teenager I'm still hoping, despite mother's warnings, that the 1912 will fall for my charms.

There is a 1912 coming up for auction next week...

[uncle tom]

There is a 1912 coming up for auction next week...

Yes at Bonhams. Failed to sell at the last auction and now offered again on a lower estimate, but still high given it's condition..

[PhilW]

now offered again on a lower estimate, but still high given it's condition..

Those were exactly my thoughts too.

[forest26]

I did get the Ck12 from Bonhams - It wasn't cheap!
Let me know....

[uncle tom]

It wasn't cheap!

Ouch! - £956 according to Bonhams results..

[Axel P]

Would vote for "worth it". This will not get cheaper.

[Axel P]

03 Bottles Alltogether03.JPG (190.28 KiB) Viewed 17795 times

[jdaw1]

Would vote for "worth it". This will not get cheaper.

At that money I’m firmly against.

Let’s discuss in person on 8^th May.

[DaveRL]

Seems a lot. What was considered imperfect with its condition?

[uncle tom]

What was considered imperfect with its condition?

Signs of seepage

[Christopher]

I can do the 47 or 67.

[DRT]

It wasn't cheap!

Ouch! - £956 according to Bonhams results..

If we are to be drinking leaky bottles at £956 a pop I will be out.

Let's get sensible gents.

[jdaw1]

At that money I’m firmly against.

If we are to be drinking leaky bottles at £956 a pop I will be out.

Let's get sensible gents.

This decision has been made as an exercise of the organiser’s authority. It is not a team vote.

[DRT]

At that money I’m firmly against.

If we are to be drinking leaky bottles at £956 a pop I will be out.

Let's get sensible gents.

This decision has been made as an exercise of the organiser’s authority. It is not a team vote.

Good. Thank you.

[Christopher]

Agreed Julian. That makes sense. The tastings need to be affordable.

[Axel P]

x