It's just not cricket

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 10:55 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Billy Cooper is playing Singin' in the Rain and Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 10:58 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Reluctant as I am to agree with Daniel; Yeah, chin up goth, write a stiff letter to the times or something.

It is odd how one side has trounced the other only to be trounced in it's turn again. Makes it hard to know which side is actually better. And down with rain. If you deserve to lose, then lose you should (England in this case).

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 10:59 Sun 23 Aug 2015

If you deserve to lose the other team should bowl you out. If they don't, you don't.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 11:37 Sun 23 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:If you deserve to lose the other team should bowl you out. If they don't, you don't.

Oh quite, Statistics will not record that it was a draw which Australia deserved to win, only that it was a draw. I was just saying that I think it is a pity when rain decides the outcome rather than the players.

Post by **DRT** » 11:43 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Unfortunately, a letter to The Times would largely be met with the same misguided loyalty being displayed here. Which is why they still have Bell in the team.

Until there is some honesty in the assessment of the performance of the team and individuals when the chips are down it will never improve. Until then we can watch them turn from world beaters to rubbish and back again at the toss of each coin.

Sir Alex Fergusson could do post-match de-briefs with the players who think that larking around in the pavilion is an acceptable reaction to being humped by your arch rivals? More seriously, someone like Clive Woodward would make a good addition to the management team in an attempt to bring a more professional attitude and to stamp out the tendency to tolerate mediocrity?

Post by **DRT** » 11:45 Sun 23 Aug 2015

LGTrotter wrote:
djewesbury wrote:If you deserve to lose the other team should bowl you out. If they don't, you don't.
Oh quite, Statistics will not record that it was a draw which Australia deserved to win, only that it was a draw. I was just saying that I think it is a pity when rain decides the outcome rather than the players.

Fear not. It is to stop raining by 16:00 and Daniel can be in the pub an hour later.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 12:34 Sun 23 Aug 2015

It has already stopped.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 12:38 Sun 23 Aug 2015

It's back on again.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 12:38 Sun 23 Aug 2015

And how dare you Derek. I, along with every right-thinking England fan who can read the game, have been in the pub for the last hour.

Post by **DRT** » 12:40 Sun 23 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:And how dare you Derek. I, along with every right-thinking England fan who can read the game, have been in the pub for the last hour.

Good man. You have restored my faith in you.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 12:45 Sun 23 Aug 2015

I don't believe an England player said that it didn't matter how badly they played, by the way. Prove it.

Post by **DRT** » 14:00 Sun 23 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:I don't believe an England player said that it didn't matter how badly they played, by the way. Prove it.

Jos Buttler.

That is a Guardian report of the same interview I watched on BBC Breakfast this morning.

Pathetic.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 15:33 Sun 23 Aug 2015

The Guardian wrote:Jos Buttler, the England wicketkeeper, insists no matter how poor the team’s performance has been in the fifth Test, it cannot detract from the fact that they will be celebrating an Ashes victory come today’s expected conclusion to the series.

That is not the same thing as what you attributed to him Derek.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 15:34 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Post by **DRT** » 16:50 Sun 23 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:
The Guardian wrote:Jos Buttler, the England wicketkeeper, insists no matter how poor the team’s performance has been in the fifth Test, it cannot detract from the fact that they will be celebrating an Ashes victory come today’s expected conclusion to the series.
That is not the same thing as what you attributed to him Derek.

Perhaps a direct quote from his lips rather than a journalist's spin on his words would be more appropriate...

{unless you actually saw the interview, as I did, you will have to imagine the smirk on his face as he said...}

Jos Butler wrote:It’s disappointing but we have won the Ashes and no one take that away from us, no matter how badly we played in this game

Not a million miles away from...

DRT wrote:This morning I heard one of them say something along the lines of "it doesn't matter how bad we play in this test we have already won the Ashes"

I stand by my view that the way in which the England team have approached and reacted to this final test is appalling. If you think differently then that's fine.

I hope you enjoyed the fireworks.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 16:52 Sun 23 Aug 2015

And with that, Derek stomps off to await his 50% refund and to contemplate the damnation of the entire English cricket team. Beneath a glowering sky he contemplates eternity, and duty, and the failure and frailty of man.

"This will not do," he mutters angrily under his breath.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 17:09 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Joss Buttler did the end of the day interview last night, he was categorical that he was not thinking about or hoping for rain, the journo then pushed him a bit saying that a bit of rain might help and he replied that if it rained then no problem. The sub head on an article then read "Buttler hopes for rain". I paraphrase somewhat but journos are pretty creative in writing stories.

Anyway, I think I sit somewhere between Daniel and Derek on this series, England did a lot better than I thought they would and to expect perfection is unrealistic, however I also agree that England have some unfinished business in terms of selection, Lyth, Bell in the batting, even Buttler and Stokes were a worry, and the bowling has some issues, eg Anderson abroad, Broad bowling a length, Wood and fitness, spinners...

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 19:51 Sun 23 Aug 2015

Owen, I am not at an opposite pole to you with regards to the work England still have to do. UAE will be difficult and South Africa will be harder still.

Post by **DRT** » 21:54 Sun 23 Aug 2015

LGTrotter wrote:Anyway, I think I sit somewhere between Daniel and Derek on this series, England did a lot better than I thought they would and to expect perfection is unrealistic, however I also agree that England have some unfinished business in terms of selection, Lyth, Bell in the batting, even Buttler and Stokes were a worry, and the bowling has some issues, eg Anderson abroad, Broad bowling a length, Wood and fitness, spinners...

Very well summarised, Owen. One addition point I would make is that this team seem to think they are better than they are. They need to work very hard to prove that to be true.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 01:04 Mon 24 Aug 2015

The other thing I loved about the England side was Finn. He is back for good, and if there is anything I like better than a mystery spinner story it is a fast bowler wilderness years story. Why do they all have to do it? Willis, Simon Jones, Harmison, there are others but you get the idea. I suppose it is the difficult second album syndrome. And they all come back with a fey look in their eyes, like they did actually wrestle demons in the desert.

Post by **DRT** » 08:11 Mon 24 Aug 2015

LGTrotter wrote:like they did actually wrestle demons in the desert.

Sounds like the ideal place to send Bell

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 08:32 Mon 24 Aug 2015

DRT wrote:Very well summarised, Owen.

Oh I agree with Nick, right Derek?
Ugh. Such sycophancy.

Post by **DRT** » 09:19 Mon 24 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:Very well summarised, Owen.
Oh I agree with Nick, right Derek?
Ugh. Such sycophancy.

Were you hit by one of those damp squibs?

New business:

Name two players who will be spending more time with their family during the UAE tour.

I'll say Lyth and Bairstow.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 09:21 Mon 24 Aug 2015

Funnily enough I don't think Lyth. They're going to hold on to him, for better or worse, I think. I think Bairstow might take Buttler's gloves off him though.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 09:22 Mon 24 Aug 2015

And as I've said, they may 'rest' Bell and perhaps even Anderson - not much for him in UAE potentially, or does it swing in Abu Dhabi?

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 10:26 Mon 24 Aug 2015

Lyth and Anderson. I sometimes think that Bell will die of old age before someone remembers to sack him, so not him although he should go.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 10:29 Mon 24 Aug 2015

Sorry - my autocorrect suggested that they would 'test' Bell rather than 'rest' him. Corrected now (manually). I think he may not be going. But they'll recall him for South Africa and he may be useful there against the world's most terrifying quicks, who knows?

Post by **DRT** » 16:28 Mon 24 Aug 2015

LGTrotter wrote:Lyth and Anderson. I sometimes think that Bell will die of old age before someone remembers to sack him, so not him although he should go.

Owen, are you saying that Jimbo won't be going because he will be dropped or because he needs more time to recover after breaking his toenail in the third test?

Just to clarify (mostly for Daniel) - I was really asking "who is going to be sacked for being rubbish?" - so players who don't go just because they are Prima Donna types who want a rest because they think they are above playing in the UAE don't count.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 16:30 Mon 24 Aug 2015

If they rest Bell it isn't because he's too good.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 11:43 Sun 30 Aug 2015

Glad tidings! Ian Bell has decided to stop playing in T20s and one-dayers to focus on being pointless and flaky in tests. I wonder if someone should point out to Ian that if you've already been dropped from the T20 and one day side then you haven't decided to stop playing, you've been sacked.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 23:30 Thu 03 Sep 2015

Nobody but nobody is watching these pointless pyjama games. Should someone tell them?

Post by **DRT** » 04:49 Fri 04 Sep 2015

djewesbury wrote:Nobody but nobody is watching these pointless pyjama games. Should someone tell them?

I watched the last hour, having listened to the previous hour on TMS in the car. A quite astounding collapse, again.

I am going to Headingley next Friday with a dozen colleagues.

Post by **DRT** » 16:45 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Some very unsporting behaviour being demonstrated by the crowd, the England team and some of the beefier commentators. Stokes intentionally handled the ball and was given out fallowing a perfectly valid review. Get over it and carry on with throwing away wickets. End of!

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 16:52 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Derek, the law is wilful obstruction. This was self preservation. Never mind slow motion. You need to put yourself into the mind of a player on the field; which may be more difficult if you've never played the game

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:03 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Maybe this will help. And yes, I know the umpire's decision is final.

Post by **DRT** » 17:18 Sat 05 Sep 2015

djewesbury wrote:Derek, the law is wilful obstruction. This was self preservation. Never mind slow motion. You need to put yourself into the mind of a player on the field; which may be more difficult if you've never played the game

Yes indeed - "never mind the slow motion" that shows Stokes eyes following the ball and stretching his arm out to fend off a ball that was going to miss his body by two or three feet but just happened to be heading directly for his unprotected wicket. That's the one, Daniel.

The Upmire's decision is not only final, it happens to be correct.

It is interesting to note that Stokes walked without fuss or complaint whilst his captain had a whinge at the Umpire. Well done, Ben.

Post by **DRT** » 17:20 Sat 05 Sep 2015

...and if we are going to ignore slow motion for this why have it for anything else?

This is a game of fast balls and lightning reactions. Slow motion helps mere mortals see what actually happened.

You've got the cake, you need to eat it.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:21 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Rubbish. Sorry, this is a gentlemanly forum and all that, but I'm afraid that simply doesn't stand up to the first question you must ask yourself: would a professional cricketer wilfully do that, knowing they would obviously and immediately be out? This is not like trying to get a sneaky handball past the ref. No: not a single professional observer or former player of the game I've heard agrees with you. This was not intentional obstruction.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:22 Sat 05 Sep 2015

His captain was not the one shouting and waving his finger.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:24 Sat 05 Sep 2015

You're at full stretch, almost flat on the ground, diving for the crease; of course you look at the ball, that's what you're meant to be doing! Sorry Derek, you're just wrong in this instance.

Post by **DRT** » 17:25 Sat 05 Sep 2015

What nonsense.

Are you seriously suggesting that no professional cricketer has ever intentionally broken a law of the game? Really?

No doubt you are "watching" this on the radio?

Post by **DRT** » 17:26 Sat 05 Sep 2015

djewesbury wrote:You're at full stretch, almost flat on the ground, diving for the crease; of course you look at the ball, that's what you're meant to be doing! Sorry Derek, you're just wrong in this instance.

He was never at full stretch and his bat never reached the crease, mainly because he didn't thrust it towards the line because he was too busy trying to catch the ball.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:26 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Derek, you have to admit that you just don't know about this. You have an opinion. But not an informed one.

Internet and radio. Thank you for asking.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:27 Sat 05 Sep 2015

What player is going to wilfully try and deflect the ball..? Why can't you just enjoy that 19-ball 50 before the last wicket?

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:29 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Really Derek, this is most unbecoming. I'll have to ask you to leave the pavilion now please, you're waking the members.

Post by **DRT** » 17:32 Sat 05 Sep 2015

I know what I have watched (dozens of times) and I know the interpretation of the law read out and explained by two or three of the more balanced, thoughtful and non-reactionary commentators. Those who are spouting the same nonsense that you are coming out with are being quietly ignored by their colleagues, probably to allow the entertainment to continue.

Your claim that no professional cricketer would do this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:34 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Your claim that that is the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've seen you hear much more ridiculous things in the past.

Post by **DRT** » 17:36 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Justice is served.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:36 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Lovely innings from Morgan.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 17:38 Sat 05 Sep 2015

Wouldn't be surprised if Smith gets fined for that ungentlemanly behaviour.