May Offline in London

[DRT]

As a result of many of the samples I have been given being half bottles and thre fact that it now looks highly unlikely that I will make it to an off-line in May due to work commitments this will replace the intended 2007 cask sample off-line. If any more bottles turn up between now and then I will do what I can to get them to the Crusting Pipe by 20 May so that you have more wines to taste and review.

There is one other condition (which Alex will be taking care off): all wines must be tasted and reviewed blind. You will not know what you have tasted until the end of May when all of the TNs have been collected together

[JacobH]

Thanks to the kindness of Derek and a number of shippers, in addition to the bottles we bring to the offline on May 20 we will also have 5 cask samples from the 2007 vintage to taste.

I expect that we will only taste a small fraction of each of the bottles of cask samples so there will be some available to take home and taste over an extended period. There are only two conditions:
(a) if you want to take a cask sample home with you then you must bring a half bottle or smaller with you to the tasting; and
(b) you must promise faithfully that you will post a tasting note on TPF to record your impressions of the sample

Anyone interested?

It’s extremely kind of Derek to pass on the samples to this event when he won’t be able to attend; I hope that he will be retaining (or be posted, if we’re going to open the bottles on the night) some for his own use!

Would there be any chance that I could borrow a sample jar from someone with a few spare? I have two and don’t think my palate would allow me to assess more than three in the short window we have to try them following opening, so if I could steal an extra one, I’d be very grateful.

For the purposes of putting together some placemats, might I be given an indication of what sighted Ports people intending to bring? Or, if you are thinking of bringing something to be drunk blind, then an indication to that effect. If any of the wines are not supposed to be publicly announced before the event but are not supposed to be drunk blind, then by PM is fine.

Finally, just in case anyone else was wondering, it looks like a similar offer to the old pre-theatre menu has been reintroduced. (At the Vargellas tasting, it had just been withdrawn to be replaced by a super-cheap offer on a very limited menu). It’s now called a ‟Evening dining offer”, available on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Sundays and has 3 courses for £17.95. The pre-theatre menu is what we encountered last time: 2 courses for £10.00 or 3 courses for £12.00 from a limited set menu (which appears to be changing on a daily basis).

[DRT]

It’s extremely kind of Derek to pass on the samples to this event when he won’t be able to attend; I hope that he will be retaining (or be posted, if we’re going to open the bottles on the night) some for his own use!

Don't worry, I've not gone completely mad. I'm sorted

Have fun.

[jdaw1]

For the purposes of putting together some placemats,

From which I shall conclude that you have matters completely in hand. Hurray!

[Alex Bridgeman]

The bottle I bring will be tasted blind.

The cask samples that Derek has given me to taste are cask sample 1, cask sample 2...

Is this sufficient for the placemats?

Also, on the subject of tasting cask samples at home after the event I had a thought about which I would welcome input from others. One option for us is to split the remaining contents of each of the bottles so that everyone takes a bit of each bottle home. However, my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

Any comments?

[DRT]

my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

That would also be my preference but can understand that others may wish to taste more than one or two wines the following day so will happily leave it to the majority of those attending to decide.

Derek

[JacobH]

Is this sufficient for the placemats?

I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

Also, on the subject of tasting cask samples at home after the event I had a thought about which I would welcome input from others. One option for us is to split the remaining contents of each of the bottles so that everyone takes a bit of each bottle home. However, my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

Any comments?

I don’t have strong preferences any way. Considering my lack of experiences with cask samples, I think I would be able to write something more sensible if I could compare more than one sample in a sitting. That said, knowing how difficult it is to taste these young wines without destroying the palate, I had thought that even if the other attendees were taking away a sample of each, I would aim for two or three samples which seemed like a manage.

One question, though: how much can be told from how the Port evolves over a few days after being opened? For instance, if a cask sample is undrinkable on opening but quite nice at 24 hours, what does that mean? It’s presumably not the same as looking for an optimal window for drinking a Vintage Port (even if James Suckling tells us to drink the 2007s now for pleasure!) and I wonder whether it might be a mistake to test long-term evolution as most people who seem to give me the impression of knowing about this sort of tasting (which I do not) suggest that the samples should be drunk soon after opening.

[DRT]

Jacob,

The limited experience I have of cask samples is that they do evolve over a couple of days and do not seem to be worse off for it. However, I think your idea of having more than one to compare is a good one. Perhaps you should all go armed with quarter bottles so that you can take away 2 or more samples each that you can taste more than once?

Given how intense these wines are I would suggest that on the night of the tasting you keep the pours very small to keep most of the wine to be shared out and taken home.

Derek

[jdaw1]

I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

[DRT]

I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

Jacob,

Despite the use of the question mark I do not think JDAW is really asking a question here

Derek

[jdaw1]

Wasn’t I?

(Also, eleven glasses on one sheet of A4 will be very tight. And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”? Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?)

[benread]

I like the provision for up to 16 glasses of water. Do you know something about cask samples that necessitates this much water?! I like the use of Roman numerals by the way.

Personally, I shall also be serving blind. (Partly because I am still considering what to bring but mainly because I find it fun.)

[JacobH]

I like the provision for up to 16 glasses of water. Do you know something about cask samples that necessitates this much water?!

Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

Also, eleven glasses on one sheet of A4 will be very tight.

Understood. If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”?

No. Do you know of a way whereby I can access the lining numbers (+lnum) in my OpenType Postscript font? (Such a method would also allow me to use small caps (+smcp) and ornaments (+ornm, I think) which I would be quite nice).

(Looking up anything to do with OpenType support in Postscript is a nightmare because it’s impossible to find pages which deal with the Postscript language rather than Postscript or OpenType Postscript fonts...)

Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?

As their only difference is their number, I thought their place on the tasting note sheet will be sufficient. If we move to two sheets, then this will become more clear!

If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

I liked the fact it left quite a lot of white space so that the names of the Ports can be manually written in once their identities have been revealed; the actual initials aren’t too important. I also liked the fact that the outlines look more like ripples for WS and CG; something which would be lost with a typeface that would take up more space in the circle!

[Alex Bridgeman]

If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

I like the idea of having two sheets of A4 for the tasting mats, separate the cask samples from the real drinking if we can.

Bearing in mind that the Crusting Pipe will charge us £10 per bottle we open and pour, I am minded to negotiate with them to only provide glasses and therefore only charge for the non-cask samples. The logic to this being that I will open a cask sample bottle and fill four quarter bottles brought by the attendees. The attendees will take these quarter bottles home with them to drink. If an attendee chooses to taste a small part of their quarter bottle at the venue, that's fair enough but shouldn't be considered part of our event.

Alex

[JacobH]

If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

I like the idea of having two sheets of A4 for the tasting mats, separate the cask samples from the real drinking if we can.

That alternative arrangement is available for further criticism here. (Having played with /OutlineTitlesInnerWidthBlack a bit, the subtitles now do not work at all; further consideration will take place).

Bearing in mind that the Crusting Pipe will charge us £10 per bottle we open and pour, I am minded to negotiate with them to only provide glasses and therefore only charge for the non-cask samples. The logic to this being that I will open a cask sample bottle and fill four quarter bottles brought by the attendees. The attendees will take these quarter bottles home with them to drink. If an attendee chooses to taste a small part of their quarter bottle at the venue, that's fair enough but shouldn't be considered part of our event.

In the past they’ve always been quite reasonable about corkage. If we’re clear about what we’re doing (i.e. drinking one bottle per person but bringing some other samples for redistribution and a sip of each) then I think it’s unlikely that they’ll charge extra corkage for the cask samples. If my memory is correct, we weren’t charged corkage for the Niepoort at the Vargellas tasting. I appreciate that some attendees might not wish to try anything at the TCP, but I’d quite like a chance to taste and to discuss some of them in a non-virtual way if that’s at all possible. Indeed, if it came to it, I’d be happy to pay some extra corkage.

[jdaw1]

Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

Is this a serious feature request? There could be two types of glass icon.

And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”?

No. Do you know of a way whereby I can access the lining numbers (+lnum) in my OpenType Postscript font? (Such a method would also allow me to use small caps (+smcp) and ornaments (+ornm, I think) which I would be quite nice).

All characters should be accessible via the name of the glyph (helpful list).

(Looking up anything to do with OpenType support in Postscript is a nightmare because it’s impossible to find pages which deal with the Postscript language rather than Postscript or OpenType Postscript fonts...)

You know more than me.

Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?

As their only difference is their number, I thought their place on the tasting note sheet will be sufficient. If we move to two sheets, then this will become more clear!

As the evening progresses greater clarity and obviousness of differentiation becomes more important. What about titling them ‟#1”, ‟#2”, !?

I liked the fact it left quite a lot of white space so that the names of the Ports can be manually written in once their identities have been revealed; the actual initials aren’t too important. I also liked the fact that the outlines look more like ripples for WS and CG; something which would be lost with a typeface that would take up more space in the circle!

Fine.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Draft placemats look good to me.

[benread]

That alternative arrangement is available for further criticism here. (Having played with /OutlineTitlesInnerWidthBlack a bit, the subtitles now do not work at all; further consideration will take place).

Just an observation - nothing more. Tom and I both have 4 initials and Alex has an "H" as his only middle initial. With my name, you chose to drop my third name (Howard for the sake of idle interest) and with Tom you chose to drop the second - also an "H". Starting to think this was an "H" conspiracy, I was drawn to "AHB".

Interesting!

[uncle tom]

'H' conspiracies aside. I am much less averse to being called TRA than I am THA, as my third initial is a family name, and not a given one.

I have in the past exhibited a pedantry is this regard, of which I am sure Julian would be proud; by forcing my local District Council to show my name correctly on the electoral register.

A few years ago, they invested in some software that would not allow more than one middle intitial to be displayed. After initially arguing that 'the system' made it impossible to do otherwise, I challenged them to demonstrate their authority to change someone's name.

- They backed down immediately..

Tom

[jdaw1]

'H' conspiracies aside

Are they really less plausible than ‘7 and 9’ conspiracies?

An alternative to the changing of your name would be /SameSizeTitlesIfAllOf [/OnSheetWithSameRadius] def.

[benread]

'H' conspiracies aside. I am much less averse to being called TRA than I am THA, as my third initial is a family name, and not a given one.

I have in the past exhibited a pedantry is this regard, of which I am sure Julian would be proud; by forcing my local District Council to show my name correctly on the electoral register.

A few years ago, they invested in some software that would not allow more than one middle intitial to be displayed. After initially arguing that 'the system' made it impossible to do otherwise, I challenged them to demonstrate their authority to change someone's name.

- They backed down immediately..

Tom

So R is a family name for you. H is also a family name and I feel likewise about it! I have yet to show similar levels of pedantry about it, but I shall in future remember your example!

[JacobH]

Just an observation - nothing more. Tom and I both have 4 initials and Alex has an "H" as his only middle initial. With my name, you chose to drop my third name (Howard for the sake of idle interest) and with Tom you chose to drop the second - also an "H". Starting to think this was an "H" conspiracy, I was drawn to "AHB".

I think I'm going to veto any further chopping-offs of Hs before I end up surnameless... (Actually, I did play around with reducing your and Tom's initials to three, but decided it was probably going a bit too far to start unilaterally denominating people. I was also a bit worried about which one to choose, a decision that I think is probably vindicated by Tom's post!).

I am with Tom about retention of family middle names, though; I've been tempted to double-barrel mine so that the G doesn't get left as frequently as it does.

[JacobH]

Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

Is this a serious feature request? There could be two types of glass icon.

What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

[jdaw1]

What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

Nope: I don’t know how many ports per water icon.

[JacobH]

What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

Nope: I don’t know how many ports per water icon.

But will you not know how much Port is to be consumed based on the size of the /titles array?