ThePortForum.com

Posted: **22:51 Mon 04 Jul 2011**

PhilW wrote:You could perhaps sufficiently reduce the 'insider knowledge' of the people performing the initial decant, while also increasing the number of people who could be involved without compromising port identities with minor modification to your steps:

1. Source sufficient dark glass bottles (there might be a few suitable old port bottles around somewhere...?), labelled 1,2,3...
2. Label your decanters A,B,C...
3. As pre previous description, create tags with house/year for each port, and equivalent tags labelled 1,2,3... and A,B,C...
4. Group1 decant from original bottles to dark glass bottles (selecting a random numbered bottle and its tag), in each case taking original tag and over-attaching the numeric tag on the name tag
5. Group2 decant from dark glass bottles to decanters (or other bottles), selecting random letter bottle and decanter with appropriate tags, and attach the alphabetic tag over the top of the numeric one.

- Additional notes:
(i) Group1 and Group2 during preparation can be any size, provided no-one is a member of both groups. In fact, the more people in each group, the less chance for any colour comparison by each person decanting multiple bottles.
(ii) Optionally, make the people doing the decanting wear dark sunglasses, to further reduce the colour perception of the port in the funnel during decanting (this would assume you are double-decanting through muslin/whatever, and relying on experience and the cloth rather than visual back-lit sign of first sediment)
(iii) Instead of tags, use envelopes, one inside the other, so any tells on card edges etc are hidden within each step

Oh my: isn’t the current draft of placemats sufficiently complicated?

Please confirm that you want an extra set of decanter labels, distinct from α63 β63 γ63 δ63, and distinct from T63 G63 F63 D63, to act as an intermediate step. But it would be simpler to have four copies of labels ‟63”, no other markers (an no pre-pour sheets). These ‟63”s etc go over (or in an envelope containing) the T63 G63 F63 D63 series. Further copies of the plain-vintage labels can can go over/in again. Finally the last shuffle would be labelled with the Greeks (α63 β63 γ63 δ63).

OK?

Posted: **06:27 Tue 05 Jul 2011**

From experience of doing this a number of times I would suggest that the more people that are involved in decanting the more likely it is that there will be confusion and error.

One for the organiser to take a view on.

Posted: **08:07 Tue 05 Jul 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:Oh my: isn’t the current draft of placemats sufficiently complicated?

You can always ignore my suggestion, I won't be offended

FWIW I didn't intend any change to placemats to be required as a consequence of the above. I would be happy to assist with preparation/decanting etc on the day if needed (assuming I'm attending - I believe so from post sequence but subject to confirmation of attendee update in original post).

Posted: **20:10 Tue 05 Jul 2011**

PhilW wrote:I didn't intend any change to placemats to be required

There is no harm in intending an improvements to the placemats, as you did, whether or not deliberately. I think it best done with another set of decanter labels, and not more. Which have been added.

Posted: **21:32 Tue 05 Jul 2011**

I'm waiting on Marc J to let me know whether he is still planning on visiting the UK in October as he is the first reserve. With Chris and Ray dropping from the tasting we can now accommodate two people from the reserve list.

Posted: **16:24 Thu 21 Jul 2011**

Marc has confirmed to me that he will not be visiting the UK at a time which allows him to take part in this offline, so Phil W and Alex K are both now on the list.

Rob - your +1 is now first reserve.

I need to start organising the wines and buying those which I have not already been offered. The cost for being at this event will be £200 per person with a discount for any port you provide which therefore doesn't need to be bought in.

Could those of you (Phil) whose email addresses I don't have please send me a PM telling me how to email you. As soon as I have the email address of everyone I will send out a request for payment to be made to my bank account. For completeness, here is a list of the wines and prices from when I last checked in March:
Dow '63 - £121 from Fine & Rare
Dow '66 - £114 from Ancient & Modern
Dow '70 - £80 from Nickolls & Perks
Dow '77 - ADV
Fonseca '63 - £180 from Ancient & Modern
Fonseca '66 - £140 from Vintage Wine Gifts (also available from DRT)
Fonseca '70 - £110 from Peter Wylie
Fonseca '77 - £120 from Bibendum
Graham '63 - £174 from Seckfords (also available from DRT)
Graham '66 - RAYC
Graham '70 - £102 from Peter Wylie
Graham '77 - £60 from Cadman
Taylor '63 - £182 from Fine & Rare
Taylor '66 - £110 from Fine & Rare
Taylor '70 - £132 from Peter Wylie
Taylor '77 - £90 from Seckfords

Posted: **19:36 Thu 21 Jul 2011**

AHB wrote:Rob - your +1 is now first reserve.

Noted - can i clarify whether the reserve list is "first option" to attend if someone drops out or a commitment to attend (and therefore to pay) if someone drops out?

The person who i had in mind back in December is presently still available and very keen, but at this stage is not planning his calendar/budget around it and therefore less comfortable if the decision does not rest in his hands at the actual time that someone drops out (and clearly, as the person who would pick up costs, i am too!).

Posted: **21:03 Thu 21 Jul 2011**

At least as far as I am concerned for events that I organise, first reserve means you will be offered the option to attend - it's not a commitment until you agree to take up the place.

Posted: **08:08 Fri 22 Jul 2011**

Though there should be a understanding that reserve places are not to be occupied frivolously, with only a remote chance of attendance.

Posted: **09:00 Fri 22 Jul 2011**

AHB wrote:At least as far as I am concerned for events that I organise, first reserve means you will be offered the option to attend - it's not a commitment until you agree to take up the place.

Great - thanks for confirming

jdaw1 wrote:Though there should be a understanding that reserve places are not to be occupied frivolously, with only a remote chance of attendance.

Agreed - I hope my use of reserve lists in the past has not given you cause to think that this might be the case!

Posted: **10:27 Fri 22 Jul 2011**

RAYC wrote:Agreed - I hope my use of reserve lists in the past has not given you cause to think that this might be the case!

A precedent was being created, and I wanted it slightly qualified. The qualification was not aimed at any particular person.

Posted: **06:32 Mon 15 Aug 2011**

Unfortunately, Simon and Helen Gandy have both had to drop out from the tasting. If anyone would like to pick up their places then please let me know or post here.

It has also been suggested that we should use this event as a pilot for hiring glasses rather than relying on the RAF Club and having to rewash and dry all the glasses they provide for us. This is not a cost that had been included in the original budget so would have to be covered by a slight increase in cash contributions. if you do not want to support this pilot, please post to that effect in this thread no later than Friday 26th August.

Posted: **12:45 Mon 15 Aug 2011**

My proposed guest is on holiday and potentially out of contact for the rest of the week. I have sent an email so we'll see.

If there is a place still there on his return and he confirms, good.

If not, tough!

Posted: **23:13 Wed 17 Aug 2011**

Bring on the Reidels and lets try out that glass service.

If we do, should we still have a small washing team on stand-by just in case they are needed? Would hate to have an issue on the first try of using the service. Best to be prepared just in case.

Posted: **19:58 Sat 20 Aug 2011**

Blinding: The Plan

1. Four decanters are wrapped in tin foil, so that fewer of those involved in decanting see the colour, and those that do see it less clearly.

2. They are labelled with preprepared decanter labels on strings:

”‚

3. Yummy juice goes into the decanters via the usual means.

4. Alone, nobody else watching, somebody who didn’t do the decanting then shuffles the decanters, and staples over these labels four further labels:

”‚

5. Again alone, another somebody, different to all the previous somebodies, then re-shuffles, and staples over these four further labels:

”‚

6. The tin foil is removed, and prepouring done with the help of the sheets for this task:

etc.

7. Likewise for the 1970s, 1966s, and 1963s.

8. The stapled decanter labels are put away for later.

9. When all are tasted, we have mis-guessed shippers and voted for WOTN, the stapled labels can be pulled apart to reveal what is what.

Posted: **20:37 Sat 20 Aug 2011**

A good plan.

Someone needs to take charge of preparing all of these decanter labels, presumably on old business cards, prior to the tasting. There will be no time to do this preparation on the day.

Posted: **20:44 Sat 20 Aug 2011**

Are we also voting for WOTV {perfectly doable with this plan} and WOTS {just to add extra humiliation when each of us votes our best Fonseca of the night to be a Dow, Taylor or Graham}?

Posted: **21:09 Sat 20 Aug 2011**

DRT wrote:Someone needs to take charge of preparing all of these decanter labels, presumably on old business cards, prior to the tasting.

Me? But it is likely that I won’t be early enough to help at all sorry folks. So they should be posted to somebody. AHB?

Instructions. Cut; paste to the back of a business card; allow to dry. For those with a named shipper: punch holes; thread and tie string.

Posted: **21:13 Sat 20 Aug 2011**

DRT wrote:Are we also voting for WOTV {perfectly doable with this plan} and WOTS {just to add extra humiliation when each of us votes our best Fonseca of the night to be a Dow, Taylor or Graham}?

Already in the placemats:

Posted: **23:28 Fri 26 Aug 2011**

My worry is that I suspect no-one (perhaps other than Tom) will be available to carry out the decanting and preparation before roughly 4:30pm, which is the earliest that I am anticipating that I will be able to arrive. As a result of this, I cannot see that there will be enough man-hours available to open all 16 bottles, decant and pour them.

So, I suggest that we modify the approach on the night to be:
(i) all people supplying bottles double-decant them prior to arrival, ideally presented wrapped in foil with only the flight (63, 66, 70, 77) known
(ii) on arrival, I label each bottle with a number 1-16 and flight
(iii) I decant each bottle into a decanter, also labelled with the same number 1-16 / flight
(iv) a second person staples over the top of my label the tasting reference A-D 63-77
(v) the glasses are poured from the decanter. Once the decanters are empty the stapled over labels are removed and kept for use once the guessing is over

The process is not as complete as your suggestion, but I think would get us as close as we can to blind given the likely limited time to prepare.

Also, please can we change the greek alphabet references to a, b, c etc. I would prefer a-d repeated for each flight but I know you feel that this could erroneously lead tasters to assume that the same wine has the same reference in each flight.

Posted: **05:31 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

AHB wrote:Also, please can we change the greek alphabet references to a, b, c etc. I would prefer a-d repeated for each flight but I know you feel that this could erroneously lead tasters to assume that the same wine has the same reference in each flight.

I can live with a63 b63 c63 d63, e66 f66 g66 h66, i70 j70 k70 l70, m77 n77 o77 p77.

But, as you say, I just can’t have a63, a66, a70, and a77, in which the a’s are not necessarily the same. Nor are upper case letters allowed, as D63 must be Dow 1963. (Except, possibly, in an unlikely nineteenth century horizontal.)

Posted: **07:49 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

1. I’m bringing bottles, but am very unlikely to be there before the last moment. This, and similar behaviour from others, is likely to confound the blinding.

2. Rather than have bottles initially labelled 1 to 16, which feels too much like an order of preference, instead I propose:

1963:
- From Me to You
- Hold Your Hand
- Never Walk Alone
- She Loves You
1966:
- Green, Green Grass
- Distant Drums
- Yellow Submarine
- Pretty Flamingo
1970:
- In the Summertime
- The Wonder of You
- Band of Gold
- I Hear You Knocking
1977:
- Silver Lady
- Way Down
- Name of the Game
- Don’t Give Up on Us

I am willing to consider substitutes, provided that the name is short.

Posted: **08:41 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:1. I’m bringing bottles, but am very unlikely to be there before the last moment. This, and similar behaviour from others, is likely to confound the blinding.

If we cannot (a) get the bottles to the venue at or before 2pm on the day and (b)find two or three to form a decanting team then I suggest we do not attempt to do this blind as it will be a disaster. Really, it will. Past experience tells us that, despite all the forward planning, bottles will turn up un-decanted and un-blinded at or after the appointed starting time.

jdaw1 wrote:I am willing to consider substitutes, provided that the name is short.

If we can find a solution to the above nightmare scenario, bottles could be labelled using the names of approved grape varieties. Or, as they might be in a sensible and non-OCD world, we could use four letters and sixteen numbers.

Posted: **09:09 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

DRT wrote:If we cannot (a) get the bottles to the venue at or before 2pm on the day and (b)find two or three to form a decanting team then I suggest we do not attempt to do this blind as it will be a disaster.

The evening before, or perhaps even the week before, I could deliver bottles, presumably undecanted, to a London location. However, there is much validity to DRT’s comments about a too-small too-late decanting team.

DRT wrote:non-OCD world

Presumably one orbited by a moon made of cheese.

Posted: **10:46 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

If we cannot ... (b)find two or three to form a decanting team then I suggest we do not attempt to do this blind as it will be a disaster.

Provided I know sufficiently in advance (which this is), I'm happy to arrange to have the day off on the 11th, and could then be available as early in the day as would be useful to assist with decanting etc if that would help.

PhilW.

Posted: **12:31 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

I can arrange to be available from mid-afternoon and I suspect that ADV will be in London before then. We now have a decanting team

The challenge now is for those with bottles to let us know if they can get them to the venue by 2pm on the 11th. Within reason, I am willing to be helpful with the logistics.

Posted: **12:53 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

PhilW wrote:I'm happy to arrange to have the day off on the 11th, and could then be available as early in the day as would be useful to assist with decanting etc

Thank you.

DRT wrote:I can arrange to be available from mid-afternoon

Thank you.

DRT wrote:The challenge now is for those with bottles to let us know if they can get them to the venue by 2pm on the 11th. Within reason, I am willing to be helpful with the logistics.

Most convenient for me would be to drop them at the venue the previous evening, if that is permitted.

Does the presence of the decanting team mean that we are back to the current plan wrt experiment design, and hence with the placemats? (Subject to α→a, β→b, γ→c, δ→d, ε→d, ζ→f, Î·→g, Î¸→h, Î¹→i, Îº→j, Î»→k, Î¼→l, Î½→m, Î¾→n, Î¿→o, Ï€→p.) Please could both AHB and DRT respond to this question.

Posted: **15:17 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

DRT wrote:I can arrange to be available from mid-afternoon and I suspect that ADV will be in London before then. We now have a decanting team

The challenge now is for those with bottles to let us know if they can get them to the venue by 2pm on the 11th. Within reason, I am willing to be helpful with the logistics.

I should be there by 1400 hrs at the latest, most likely by 1300 to help with decanting.

Posted: **15:20 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:If we cannot (a) get the bottles to the venue at or before 2pm on the day and (b)find two or three to form a decanting team then I suggest we do not attempt to do this blind as it will be a disaster.
The evening before, or perhaps even the week before, I could deliver bottles, presumably undecanted, to a London location. However, there is much validity to DRT’s comments about a too-small too-late decanting team.

DRT wrote:non-OCD world
Presumably one orbited by a moon made of cheese.

Agree, it seems trying to do this blind probably won't work. Shall we keep this non-blind then?

Posted: **15:22 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

Andy Velebil wrote:I should be there by 1400 hrs at the latest, most likely by 1300 to help with decanting.

And thank you too.

Posted: **16:19 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:non-OCD world
Presumably one orbited by a moon made of cheese.

I just noticed this.

Are you seriously suggesting that the moon is not made of cheese?

What next? Are you going to have us believe that cows can’t jump over it?!?!

Posted: **16:36 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

Didn’t you pay any attention in science classes?

The moon used to have a cheese crust. Cows jumped onto (not over) the moon, to eat that crust. Alas, in one of the earliest examples of bovine environmental damage, they ate it all. Which is why the moon is no longer made of cheese; and cows no longer waste time and energy jumping over, onto, or anywhere near the moon.

That’s proper science, that is.

Posted: **16:47 Sat 27 Aug 2011**

Noted. All of that seems logical. But please don’t tell me Brussels Sprouts are real, I can only sleep at night because I know they are just spoken of in fairy stories.

Posted: **12:34 Mon 29 Aug 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:Does the presence of the decanting team mean that we are back to the current plan wrt experiment design, and hence with the placemats? (Subject to α→a, β→b, γ→c, δ→d, ε→d, ζ→f, Î·→g, Î¸→h, Î¹→i, Îº→j, Î»→k, Î¼→l, Î½→m, Î¾→n, Î¿→o, Ï€→p.) Please could both AHB and DRT respond to this question.

I say yes.

Posted: **21:02 Mon 29 Aug 2011**

I would prefer to do the tasting with each flight being blind, and will happily and gratefully accept the help of those who are able to make it to the RAF club in time to decant. While I would prefer to have only the letters a-d used as handles to aid discussion, I can live with a-p - the price I pay for not yet having learned how to use the place mat post script.

Let's give the process a trial.

Posted: **21:14 Mon 29 Aug 2011**

Updated draft of placemats.

Blinding: The Plan

1. Four decanters are wrapped in tin foil, so that fewer of those involved in decanting see the colour, and those that do see it less clearly.

2. They are labelled with preprepared decanter labels on strings:

”‚

(In case needed for bottles, these are also available as sticky labels.)

3. Yummy juice goes into the decanters via the usual means.

4. Alone, nobody else watching, somebody who didn’t do the decanting then shuffles the decanters, and staples over these labels four further labels:

”‚

5. Again alone, another somebody, different to all the previous somebodies, then re-shuffles, and staples over these four further labels:

”‚

6. The tin foil is removed, and prepouring done with the help of the sheets for this task, such as:

7. Likewise for the 1970s, 1966s, and 1963s.

8. The stapled decanter labels are put away for later.

9. When all are tasted, we have mis-guessed shippers and voted for WOTN, the stapled labels can be pulled apart to reveal what is what.

Posted: **10:39 Wed 14 Sep 2011**

AHB wrote:Attendees - the first 14 are confirmed, the second 14 are reserves
1 Industry Guest 1
2 Industry Guest 2
3 Alex Bridgeman
4 Axel Probst
5 ** vacancy
6 ** vacancy
7 CMA Gee
8 Derek Turnbull
9 Rob Coombes
10 Julian Wiseman
11 Andy Velebil
12 Tom Archer
13 Phil W
14 Killer B

Are #1 and #2 secret, or may we be told their identities?

Posted: **21:19 Thu 15 Sep 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:Are #1 and #2 secret, or may we be told their identities?

Discussions are still ongoing, but once confirmed I will post here.

Posted: **17:07 Thu 22 Sep 2011**

I'm delighted to announce that Cynthia Jenson - of the Graham and Malvedos blog fame - will be joining us at the Matrix Tasting on October 11th. Since agreeing to join us, Cynthia has been working hard to ferret out the stories and background to each of the Symington vintages we will be drinking. You might also be caught on camera if Cynthia decides to write up the tasting as a blog entry!

I had also hoped to be able to have a respresentative from Taylor Fladgate join us on the 11th. Sadly, it seems that even the most junior members of their marketing and PR teams and of their UK distributors are all far too busy to spend time with the end consumers of their products so, instead, we have an extra place at the table for a participating guest - if you know of anyone who would like to join us, then please say.

The first post at the top of this thread has been updated to show who will be attending. Thank you to those I have contacted and asked for payment for the prompt responses that I have received. Those of you who have not heard from me will be contacted shortly.

Decanting and pouring volunteers are Derek, Axel and Phil. Thank you gentlemen.

Next action is to book the glasses we are hiring.

Alex

Posted: **14:49 Sat 24 Sep 2011**

Alex, thanks a lot for the organisation of all. I am sure it will be a huge tasting and I am very delighted to see Cynthia again.

Axel

Posted: **19:22 Sun 25 Sep 2011**

Hi

If there is still a vacancy can I please take this for a guest of mine. many thanks

Posted: **21:31 Sun 25 Sep 2011**

Christopher wrote:Hi

If there is still a vacancy can I please take this for a guest of mine. many thanks

The last space at the table is yours, reserved for your guest. Please let Julian know the details he will need for the tasting mats in due course. I will update the first post on this thread tomorrow.

Posted: **12:12 Mon 26 Sep 2011**

The first post in the thread has now been updated to reflect the fact that all 14 seats at the table have now been taken.

The menu is about to be confirmed. Following requests from the last event we held at the RAF Club, I will be selecting a non-Steak & Kidney Pudding choice.

The main menu will be:
Smoked salmon
Roast Rib of beef with Yorkshire Pudding, roast potatoes and seasonal vegetables
Chocolate Gateau
Coffee & Petit Four.

Anyone preferring the vegetarian option, please let me know as soon as possible:
MILLE FUEILLE WITH WILD MUSHROOMS in a cognac cream sauce (starter)
SPINACH & RICCOTA TORTELLINI with sherry cream sauce (main course)

I will send out emails to all in due course to confirm the final arrangements for the night.

Posted: **20:21 Fri 30 Sep 2011**

AHB wrote:5 Guest of Rob Coombes

More clues please.

Posted: **20:37 Fri 30 Sep 2011**

Updated draft of placemats.

Added brand-specific external links.
+Tom F.
‘Guest of Rob C.’ could perhaps be re-named.

Posted: **14:24 Sat 01 Oct 2011**

Updated draft of placemats.

+Nicola T., replacing ‘Guest of Rob C.’

My understanding is that the placemats are now complete. Please could somebody check.

Posted: **16:15 Sat 01 Oct 2011**

jdaw1 wrote:My understanding is that the placemats are now complete. Please could somebody check.

What is the plan for tasting?

Are we voting for "wine of the vintage" blind at the end of each flight and then guessing identity with an immediate reveal (this would mean we are voting for "wine of the night" un-blind at the end and so it might be preferable for the WOTN vote recorder to have F63, G63 etc. instead of the a63, b63 etc.)

Or are we voting for "wine of the vintage", "wine of the night" and recording all guesses together in one big go at the end of the night?

I have a marginal preference for the former.

Posted: **16:47 Sat 01 Oct 2011**

Updated draft of placemats.

RAYC wrote:Are we voting for "wine of the vintage" blind at the end of each flight and then guessing identity with an immediate reveal (this would mean we are voting for "wine of the night" un-blind at the end and so it might be preferable for the WOTN vote recorder to have F63, G63 etc. instead of the a63, b63 etc.)

Or are we voting for "wine of the vintage", "wine of the night" and recording all guesses together in one big go at the end of the night?
This is a decision for the day, as our honoured guests might have an opinion. So now there are vote-recorder pages of both types.

Posted: **17:23 Sat 01 Oct 2011**

For avoidance of doubt, I am currently tasked with printing placemats and the constructing four original decanter labels (although i am by no means possessive of this in the event that anyone else would like to instead!).

Unless anyone else had planned to, I will also bring a stapler and foil.

Any other sundries required?

Posted: **21:45 Sat 01 Oct 2011**

RAYC wrote:I am currently tasked with printing placemats and the constructing four original decanter labels

I am now making the required forty-eight decanter labels. (Four?!)

ThePortForum.com

11 October 2011 - Dow, Fonseca, Graham and Taylor

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