Mon 24th Sept 2012 - Fonseca vs Warres head to head

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 08:27 Thu 03 May 2012

Unfortunately I am in Australia that date.

Axel

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » 17:54 Mon 07 May 2012

Would love to come to this, will have a look through what I have and wear the holes are and will revert.

griff · Post by **griff** » 09:58 Thu 07 Jun 2012

Any further thoughts on vintages? I could bring a 66 Wares if we go ahead with 66 to pair with the Fonseca?

Post by **PhilW** » 13:47 Sat 09 Jun 2012

griff wrote:Any further thoughts on vintages? I could bring a 66 Wares if we go ahead with 66 to pair with the Fonseca?

As we've still got a fair amount of time to go, I'm planning on re-checking attendees at the same time as asking people which vintages they may be able to provide; I'll then make a final judgement on vintages, depending on numbers, in order to keep cost reasonable but hopefully keep a broad spectrum. (updated) First post correctly reflects intentions depending on this.

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 06:59 Thu 14 Jun 2012

Unfortunately I am in Australia on this date.

Axel

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 08:37 Sun 24 Jun 2012

I should be able to make this - will know for certain fairly soon.

Within the date range of '55 to '85, I can supply all the vintages, with the exception of F55 which I've rather carelessly drunk myself to extinction on..

Post by **PhilW** » 13:25 Fri 29 Jun 2012

Could people please let me know by email/PM what bottles they would be able to make available for this tasting (together with cost)? I can then sort purchase of any additional bottles required, and sort any payments/credits needed. (I would prefer the more informal "select something to bring" approach, but given our span from F55 to W85 felt that this would be unfair on some people).

Thanks.

Post by **DRT** » 19:23 Fri 29 Jun 2012

Have sent you an email

Post by **PhilW** » 07:02 Wed 04 Jul 2012

An update on status. Regarding budget, the goal is to beat £125/head for port budget (ideally to beat £100/head port-budget), assuming 12 people and assuming the full 14-bottles (55,60,63,66,70,77,85) with good provenance where possible; this is looking viable.

Regarding bottle-sourcing, am currently still looking for the following, if anyone attending is able to offer to supply:
Warre 55,60,70
Fonseca 55,60,63,70
Tom has offered to help filling remaning gaps aside from the F55 which we will need to obtain retail, but if others can assist with the above so that we don't have any one person supplying too many bottles, that would be preferable; if you are therefore able to offer any of the above towards this tasting please PM/email me.

Phil.

Deleted_User_1 · Post by **Deleted_User_1** » 11:21 Mon 16 Jul 2012

I can now confirm my attendance and I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.

RAYC · Post by **RAYC** » 12:50 Mon 16 Jul 2012

Cookie wrote:I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.

Let Phil know who it is (by PM, if sensitive) and he can decide!

Post by **PhilW** » 14:51 Mon 16 Jul 2012

Cookie wrote:I can now confirm my attendance and I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.

Cookie added to attendees. Industry guest would be fine, though I might be hesitant at suggestion of a TFP or Symington guest on this occaison since I would not want them to feel awkward or us constrained in considering the comparisons. Will PM you.

Deleted_User_1 · Post by **Deleted_User_1** » 17:29 Mon 16 Jul 2012

PhilW wrote:
Cookie wrote:I can now confirm my attendance and I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.
Cookie added to attendees. Industry guest would be fine, though I might be hesitant at suggestion of a TFP or Symington guest on this occaison since I would not want them to feel awkward or us constrained in considering the comparisons. Will PM you.

No need to worry...my guest is not from either camp.

Post by **DRT** » 20:05 Mon 16 Jul 2012

PhilW wrote:Attending:

(guest)

Cookie wrote:I can now confirm my attendance and I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.

Is Phil's "guest" and Cookie's "guest" the same person? If not, do we know they happy to both attend the same tasting?

Post by **PhilW** » 08:03 Tue 17 Jul 2012

DRT wrote:
PhilW wrote:Attending:

(guest)

Cookie wrote:I can now confirm my attendance and I would like to bring an industry guest if this is acceptable.
Is Phil's "guest" and Cookie's "guest" the same person? If not, do we know they happy to both attend the same tasting?

The guest listed in attendees is Cookie's; my planned surprise guest was the Bishop of Norwich who we have now invited to the Olympic tasting, so there is no clash.

Post by **jdaw1** » 16:31 Sat 21 Jul 2012

PhilW wrote:Location: TBC (The Bunghole Cellars)

Less convenient than it once was. But I’m in.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 07:56 Sun 22 Jul 2012

My trip to Germany in late September has now been cancelled. If there is still space at the table, please could I attend?

Post by **PhilW** » 09:09 Tue 24 Jul 2012

AHB wrote:My trip to Germany in late September has now been cancelled. If there is still space at the table, please could I attend?

Of course

we have a couple of spots remaining if we do have any additional interest.

Post by **PhilW** » 09:13 Tue 24 Jul 2012

Draft placements here. Currently configured as one sheet of Warre, one sheet of Fonseca; considered alternative of keeping years side by side instead.

Post by **jdaw1** » 11:19 Tue 24 Jul 2012

Jolly good, though ‟Warre” needs some kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)], though I haven’t tested whether -0.09 is optimal.

And pre-pour and cork-display sheets might, or might not, be wanted.

Deleted_User_1 · Post by **Deleted_User_1** » 11:44 Tue 24 Jul 2012

Having received confirmation I can now declare my guest as the eminent wine writer and broadcaster
Jancis Robinson MW.

griff · Post by **griff** » 11:55 Tue 24 Jul 2012

Cookie wrote:Having received confirmation I can now declare my guest as the eminent wine writer and broadcaster
Jancis Robinson MW.

Ooer! Looking forward to meeting HRH

Post by **PhilW** » 21:57 Tue 24 Jul 2012

jdaw1 wrote:Jolly good, though ‟Warre” needs some kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)], though I haven’t tested whether -0.09 is optimal.

agree, will experiment; Also the inner W seems too close to the outer circles, though fine for the F; could add a gap inside the outer ring text, but really would only need it for the Warre, which might not be possible with current parameter set? I'll experiment with this also.

And pre-pour and cork-display sheets might, or might not, be wanted.

deliberately omitted on both counts since the majority of people will be supplying 1 bottle to the event, so I was considering asking people to bring their pre-decanted bottles (as per normal informal) rather then pre-collecting; on reflection though it's probably better to have the extra sheets and not need them than to find they would be useful on the night and not have them... I'll enable them in next draft.

Post by **jdaw1** » 07:18 Wed 25 Jul 2012

PhilW wrote:Also the inner W seems too close to the outer circles, though fine for the F; could add a gap inside the outer ring text, but really would only need it for the Warre, which might not be possible with current parameter set? I'll experiment with this also.

Try something like /ExclusionAnnulusProportionInnerRadiusTitlesAboveBelow 0.02 def, which won’t affect the F but will affect the W.

If preferred this could be code: /ExclusionAnnulusProportionInnerRadiusTitlesAboveBelow {Titles WithinTitles get 0 1 getinterval (W) eq {0.02} {0} ifelse} def.

PopulusTremula · Post by **PopulusTremula** » 15:58 Wed 25 Jul 2012

I would very much like to attend, provided there's availability of course. Having never attended one before, it seems like a great way to get my port tasting feet wet. I can sponsor a bottle purchased retail if gaps still exist and of course top up to the overall cost per head of £125, should that be required.

Please let me know.

Thanks
Magnus

Post by **PhilW** » 09:09 Fri 27 Jul 2012

PopulusTremula wrote:I would very much like to attend, provided there's availability of course. Having never attended one before, it seems like a great way to get my port tasting feet wet. I can sponsor a bottle purchased retail if gaps still exist and of course top up to the overall cost per head of £125, should that be required.

Please let me know.

Thanks
Magnus

Hi Magnus - have sent you a PM.

Post by **PhilW** » 12:40 Fri 27 Jul 2012

An update on planning.

Tom and Magnus have now confirmed, so we're now at least 13 (so just one more space available). On that basis, I'm happy that we can now include the W60 and F60 in the line-up and maintain reasonable cost, which I will finalise soon (sooner if we fill the last spot).

Phil.

Post by **PhilW** » 13:28 Fri 27 Jul 2012

+BMHR, which gives us a full set of attendees.

Post by **PhilW** » 07:15 Tue 14 Aug 2012

I spoke with the Helen at (the premises formerly known as) The Bung Hole last night to confirm arrangements, so all is now in place. We are booked in "the office" (the larger of their rooms downstairs, as used previously) for the tasting, with a separate table in the main room for food.

Ports are being supplied as follows:
AHB: F55
Carl: W66, F85
DRT: W63
JDAW: W70
THRA: W55, F60, F63
PW: W77, W85
RAYC: F66, F77
WS: W60, F70

I have confirmed that the 350g bone-in rib and 800g club steaks are not on the menu but are still available providing we pre-order, cost subject to final confirmation from new management by the end of this week. Expected cost is currently therefore:
£145 = cost per head, including the port, starter, 350g bone-in rib main course, corkage and tip
where main course is optionally upgradeable to 800g club steak for an extra £25.

Fair warning: once I get confirmation from TBH on steak prices, I will be chasing people to confirm they are happy with bone-in rib or wish to upgrade to club steak, and then for money

Post by **jdaw1** » 08:05 Tue 14 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:We are booked in "the office" (the larger of their rooms downstairs, as used previously) for the tasting

The Function Room is the larger room; the Office seats at most four.

Deleted_User_1 · Post by **Deleted_User_1** » 08:35 Tue 14 Aug 2012

Apologies...I am not able to attend this tasting...any costs incurred will be reimbursed.
Please advise if you wish me to cancel Jancis Robinson.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 09:42 Tue 14 Aug 2012

Yikes, I didn't know know Cookie was in the business of "canceling" people. We all ought to be careful lest we end up with a horse's head appearing in our beds!

Post by **PhilW** » 13:15 Wed 15 Aug 2012

Attendees and placemats adjusted; Jancis Robinson assumed still attending at this time.
-RLC

Post by **jdaw1** » 13:47 Wed 15 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:placemats

Please post a link to the placemats.

Post by **PhilW** » 08:19 Thu 16 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
PhilW wrote:placemats
Please post a link to the placemats.

I will when I've finished fiddling with them...

Post by **jdaw1** » 12:56 Thu 16 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:I will when I've finished fiddling with them...

That typically happens within a day of printing. Trust me: I have experience of these matters.

Nonetheless, early in the process I post a link. (Though never more than 13¾ months before the tasting.)

Post by **PhilW** » 08:19 Mon 20 Aug 2012

Placemats updated here.

Post by **jdaw1** » 09:14 Mon 20 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:Placemats updated here.

I like the chaining a use of MakePathConnectingGlasses that I had not anticipated. Very good. And how did you get the logo on the page? Please post or PM or email. But eight glasses is very tight on A4, even with INAO glasses, and just too tight for the Bung Hole.

Details:
• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.
• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]? And you’ve been inconsistent about the possessive.

(Note to self: get permission.)

Post by **PhilW** » 10:33 Mon 20 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:And how did you get the logo on the page? Please post or PM or email.

Will email the postscript. This will entail admitting I have added one line of code below the line that says "do not modify below here unless you are Julian Wiseman"

But eight glasses is very tight on A4, even with INAO glasses, and just too tight for the Bung Hole.

I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?

• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.

I thought this was intended as a reference link to your placemat software, rather than to a copy of the specific pdf?

• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]?

I have already used kerning in the header; kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?

And you’ve been inconsistent about the possessive.

fixed (I believe).

Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.

Post by **jdaw1** » 13:25 Mon 20 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:I have added one line of code below the line that says "do not modify below here unless you are Julian Wiseman"

The bitmaps done splendidly: I must find software that can output the text. Please, what is the name of the format? But your extra line could have been avoided with /PaintBackgroundCode {TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /Glasses eq {PlaceProducerLogo} if} def.

PhilW wrote:I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?

On A4 paper seven and eight are the same radius, which is too small. If you don’t believe me print one page and test with your home glasses.

PhilW wrote:
• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.
I thought this was intended as a reference link to your placemat software, rather than to a copy of the specific pdf?

I use it, and intended it to be used for, a link to the latest version. So if somebody copies my/your website, there is still a pointer home.

PhilW wrote:
• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]?
I have already used kerning in the header; kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?

Are you missing one layer of array brackets, with the items of the Warre compound string erroneously being items of the circle array?

PhilW wrote:Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.

I have tended to have one name for my placemat files, repeatedly overwritten as updated. You have done versioning. Hmm, a question for elsewhere, but do people need versioning?

Post by **PhilW** » 09:49 Tue 21 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:The bitmaps done splendidly: I must find software that can output the text. Please, what is the name of the format?

I used PaintShopPro, with input as 24bpp bmp, and output as 8bpp greyscale .eps (encapsulated postscript). I then copy/pasted the hex data into my own wrapper function. This also worked well using a 24bpp colour .eps which I did initially for the Fonseca logo which was white/gold on black, but this didn't look so good on white sheets, hence conversion to black/grey on white and use as grayscale. An extra note if using this method for other images; the postscript conversion didn't like large ones, I had to resize to small-ish ones to make it work; this could be a stack issue perhaps, or other, I have not investigated further.

But your extra line could have been avoided with /PaintBackgroundCode {TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /Glasses eq {PlaceProducerLogo} if} def.

Good point; I'm already using /PaintBackgroundCode so will put it in there.

PhilW wrote:I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?
On A4 paper seven and eight are the same radius, which is too small. If you don’t believe me print one page and test with your home glasses.

The maximum I can get to (by minimising margins as much as possible) seems to be Radius = 115.863; will try that at home tonight for size.

kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?
Are you missing one layer of array brackets, with the items of the Warre compound string erroneously being items of the circle array?

Could you elaborate please? Perhaps by example to add kerning to the following (since my attempt failed):
/Circlearrays [ [ (Fonseca) (1977) ] [ (Warre's) (1977) ] ] def

PhilW wrote:Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.
I have tended to have one name for my placemat files, repeatedly overwritten as updated. You have done versioning. Hmm, a question for elsewhere, but do people need versioning?

Habitual due to software releases etc, where source is under version control, but releases (and release candidates) get revision numbers. Not expected to be part of the postscript.

I have (in trying various things) two more suggestions for the placemat software.

Post by **jdaw1** » 10:07 Tue 21 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:Could you elaborate please? Perhaps by example to add kerning to the following (since my attempt failed):
/Circlearrays [ [ (Fonseca) (1977) ] [ (Warre's) (1977) ] ] def

See the parameters for the A Small Horizontal of 1966s on Tuesday 17th April 2012.

Or

Code: Select all

/Circlearrays [
	[  (Fonseca)  (1977)  ] 
	[  [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre) /quoteright (s)] (1977)  ]
] def

Observe that the Warre pieces are arrayed together, so making a single item. (Post not tested; I hope OK.)

Post by **jdaw1** » 22:23 Tue 21 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:I used PaintShopPro

GraphicConverter can save in EPS, and with some fiddling with the options, and then again with the output text file, it works. Useful: thank you.

Post by **PhilW** » 09:40 Thu 23 Aug 2012

Latest placemats including various tidy-ups, use of newly available parameters and updated to latest version of placement software.

I have increased the circle diameters to the maximum possiblen through sacrifice of margin widths while maintaining a single producer per page. I have tested at home and these fit ISO glasses with ease, and *just* accomodate the Riedels sufficiently. If anyone attending TBH in the near future were able to print a page of these and confirm that this is usable with their glasses it would be appreciated; I realise that an extra such visit to TBH will be a severe trial

Post by **PhilW** » 07:57 Fri 24 Aug 2012

I have had confirmation on food prices, so will now be contacting everyone to confirm choices for pre-ordering. Finalised cost for the evening is £150 per head (slightly higher than previously mentioned due to higher food price) to include the port, starter, 350g bone-in rib main course with chips and choice of sauce, corkage and tip. Two larger steak options are also available at additional cost, either an 800g Club Sirloin at an extra £25, or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.

I will be contacting all attendees by email/PM and asking for responses by 30th Aug, followed by payments.

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 01:47 Sat 25 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.

Don't worry Derek, I'm sure they'll let you order more than one.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Post by **DRT** » 06:41 Sat 25 Aug 2012

Glenn E. wrote:
PhilW wrote:or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.
Don't worry Derek, I'm sure they'll let you order more than one.

I'm being a good boy and going for the 350g Rib

Post by **PhilW** » 08:44 Sat 25 Aug 2012

DRT wrote:I'm being a good boy and going for the 350g Rib

@Admin - it would appear that Derek's account has been hacked; please apply normal security procedures

griff · Post by **griff** » 12:31 Sat 25 Aug 2012

As I have already told Phil, Rebecca is unable to make this event as one of us needs to stay at home as a result of obtaining a puppy. Unfortunately for you she has let me rather than her attend

Post by **jdaw1** » 20:52 Mon 27 Aug 2012

My schedule on Mon 24th is now looking vulnerable I cannot be entirely confident of being early. There are tastings on Tue 4th Sept, Tue 11th Sept, and Tue 18th Sept: would it be possible to hand my W70 to somebody at one of these events?