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It would be a big surprise for me, if the two big producers for Vintage Port will declare both as classic years.

but I think that much of the smaller producers (when we speak about the quantity of their average vintage production) maybe declare both.

Taylor have at last produced a vintage report for 2012:

http://www.taylor.pt/en/news/port-harvest-2012-2/

However, along with David's interview, there is no clear message regarding their declaration intentions, which suggests that they really haven't decided yet.

Elsewhere, I have been reliably informed that Niepoort and the Symington brands are readying for a 2011 declaration, with or without the TFP brands.

Very little information emanates from Noval these days, and I have no idea what their plans are...

..anyone know?

I believe 2011 will be a general declaration. Far too many growers were exceedingly excited about the season and its prospects for it to not be generally declared. I think that comparisons to 1991/1992 are inaccurate because, as I have been led to believe, 1991 was merely "declarable" and not "classic" which is why TFP was more than happy to hold off for the marginally better (for them) 1992. I see no similar pattern in 2011/2012. The excitement about 2011 leads me to believe it is a classic year, while the promise of 2012 is much more limited and sounds very much like superb SQVP year to me.

I also don't see TFP's 2009 declarations as a problem. Welcome to the modern world of Port declarations. With so many small producers now able and willing to declare as often as they want, I think there will be less and less adherance to the 3/decade rule of thumb as we move forward. 07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

We may ultimately decide that the SQVPs (or VPs, or whatever) that are released in 2012 are equal or better than the VPs released in 2011, but I suspect that it will be due to the much more limited releases.

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

Shippers have claimed that each declaration is judged, standalone, on the quality of the juice. The statistical evidence against this is strong (given here). But that claim might become true, at least partly for the reasons Glenn gives.

RAYC wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

g-man wrote:

RAYC wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

My point being, up until samples are submitted to IVDP, is there anything to stop a batch of VP being labelled either as "Fonseca" or "Fonseca Guimaraens", or likewise as "Croft" or "Croft Quinta da Roeda" / "Delaforce" or "Delaforce Quinta da Corte"?

Whereas presumably the Symingtons have to decide at an earlier point whether the Q. dos Malvedos or Bomfim juice will either (i) be blended with that of other Quintas for the classic Graham/Dow/Warre VP or (ii) held back for SQVP?

jdaw1 wrote:

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

Depends on whether you ask DRT or AHB!

RAYC wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

Depends on whether you ask DRT or AHB!

No full-declaration Fonseca that I have tasted has quite the braga-esque quality of the Guimaraens 1976. My preference is for Port that changes colour naturally as it evolves. Others are welcome to disagree

Perhaps a tasting of F76, SW77 & D80 v D85, F85 & T85 would demonstrate the point?

Paul Symington wrote:In the old days my father and uncles would have been making very sweet Ports with very little colour because they would have had to run off the lagares when the fermentation temperatures got too high.

Was re-reading this thread in search of information about the 2011 declaration, and came upon this nugget of information.

Thanks Paul for sharing and to the entire Symington family for being incredibly generous with their time, knowledge, and wines! It is an incredible asset of TPF to have such warm relationships with our port heroes.

I have been to Porto several times, but have not yet made it to the vineyards

I look forward to checking out these cooling machines when I finally stop by!

BFT 2014 Catalogue wrote:11. Dow’s Senhora da Ribeira 2012

12. Quinta do Vesuvio 2012

The only 2012 declarations revealed by this release of the BFT’s catalogue.

jdaw1 wrote:

BFT 2014 Catalogue wrote:11. Dow’s Senhora da Ribeira 2012

12. Quinta do Vesuvio 2012

The only 2012 declarations revealed by this release of the BFT’s catalogue.

Please start a 2012 declaration thread.

DRT wrote:Please start a 2012 declaration thread.

Done.