ThePortForum.com

Daniel and Owen discussing port prices!

That's priceless. I thought you were making multiple connections there with TMS but I realise it's not Test Match Special but the Muppet Show.
Or is that Boycott and Blofeld?

Crikey, Statler and Waldorf are up late-in expectation of a hopeless cause at the TM I presume? In terms of Strakers, I would agree with Owen, that prices were on the big side (I ended up with a solitary lot of G85); the vesuvio at £155 plus plus VAT for example was materially more than the £140 (all in ) for the same lot at Bigwoods. This may in part be due to the presence of a certain individual from a Port retail site ' 'over bidding'. I probably need to undertake some analysis of which auctions are more likely to have the keenest prices-but then again, there's a number of variables to take into account; not least the presence of said chap.

idj123 wrote:Crikey, Statler and Waldorf are up late-in expectation of a hopeless cause at the TM I presume? In terms of Strakers, I would agree with Owen, that prices were on the big side (I ended up with a solitary lot of G85); the vesuvio at £155 plus plus VAT for example was materially more than the £140 (all in ) for the same lot at Bigwoods. This may in part be due to the presence of a certain individual from a Port retail site ' 'over bidding'. I probably need to undertake some analysis of which auctions are more likely to have the keenest prices-but then again, there's a number of variables to take into account; not least the presence of said chap.

While watching Bonham's I noticed the port prices leap up after some very lacklustre bidding but also noticed that one ticket number snaffled most of the lots. Our friend has been busy; but similarly a lot of the auction lots have turned up again on bidforwine very quickly.

Hart Davis Hart, 8^th February, lots 983 to 986, each one dozen G85 in OWC.

jdaw1 wrote:Hart Davis Hart, 8^th February, lots 983 to 986, each one dozen G85 in OWC.

Yeah, saw those in their catalog. It's worth checking out the condition details on those lots.

SushiNorth wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Hart Davis Hart, 8^th February, lots 983 to 986, each one dozen G85 in OWC.

Yeah, saw those in their catalog. It's worth checking out the condition details on those lots.

Indeed. Raised corks, signs of past seepage, and capsule corrosion abound.

Still might be worth a lowball bid. $600 all-in for a case of G85 is probably worth the risk on the lots with fewer raised corks.

Has anyone caught sight of the upcoming Sworders auction? 17 bottles of T45 in one lot with an estimate (over-estimate in my book) of betweek £5k-£7k! Did make my jaw drop a bit as I've not seen similar before. There are others in the same (albeit lesser) vein such as D45 and W45. if anyone's thinking about putting in bids on this auction (although not on these as they're beyond my reach unless as part of a co-operative?) then PM me so as to avoid competition.

Yes I was bidding - It was quite a collection and I have not seen such a gathering for a long time. For information the T45 went for £6400+commission for 15 bottles (not 17). The condition of the bottles was excellent. There was also W45, D45, Croft 45 and Feuerheerd 45.

forest26 wrote:Yes I was bidding - It was quite a collection and I have not seen such a gathering for a long time. For information the T45 went for £6400+commission for 15 bottles (not 17). The condition of the bottles was excellent. There was also W45, D45, Croft 45 and Feuerheerd 45.

Hello forest26, and welcome. Please do introduce yourself in the Introductions section, so that we have some facts to hang on the “I”.

forest26 wrote:Yes I was bidding.

Did you manage to bag anything?

flash_uk wrote:

forest26 wrote:Yes I was bidding.

Did you manage to bag anything?

I heard it went to very high prices.

idj123 wrote:Has anyone caught sight of the upcoming Sworders auction?

djewesbury wrote: I heard it went to very high prices.

Hammer prices can be found here.

I was the under bidder on the T45 - and have mixed feelings about bailing out! I did pick up a few of the other 45's and 55s. And the two bottles of Guimarens 47 which I am proud of.

You have my admiration (not to mention my envy!) at securing these lots!

Straker April 2014

Hi I spoke to some folks at the BFT who were thinking of bidding on some lots - if I remember correctly

Lot 282 F77 went at 780 to commission
Lot 313 ck67 went at 405 to a room bidder

I'll keep adding as the auction progresses.

I think the other 2 were w70 and Churchill 85 - I had stepped out at that point, but hope you got them.

Overall impression was that some lots were going at reasonable prices in this one - I picked up F63 (UKB) and T94.

Just a guess, but the label on this bottle of Dow coming up soon at Charterhouse is probably not a genuine Symington label.

PhilW wrote:Just a guess, but the label on this bottle of Dow coming up soon at Charterhouse is probably not a genuine Symington label.

Those labels were from the last year of Brewdog’s ownership of Silva & Cosens, which was sold to the Symingtons just after.

I have just received, unsolicited, the strangest auction catalogue, sent to me via DHL from Hong Kong. It is the catalogue for the sale of wines from the collection of Alex Ferguson, in Hong Kong, London and online. I have never expressed an interest in this sale. DHL tried to deliver it about 4 times and were unsuccessful due to people in this household working. What an amazing cost to send me a fabulously glossy catalogue full of pictures of bottles that I could never afford, and lots of stuff about Manchester Utd that is of no interest to me. Strange indeed.

djewesbury wrote:I have just received, unsolicited, the strangest auction catalogue, sent to me via DHL from Hong Kong. It is the catalogue for the sale of wines from the collection of Alex Ferguson, in Hong Kong, London and online. I have never expressed an interest in this sale. DHL tried to deliver it about 4 times and were unsuccessful due to people in this household working. What an amazing cost to send me a fabulously glossy catalogue full of pictures of bottles that I could never afford, and lots of stuff about Manchester Utd that is of no interest to me. Strange indeed.

From Christies. There is some port in the catalogue, so if you've ever bought port at Christies maybe they thought you would be interested. Or alternatively there has maybe been slack interest in Ferguson's collection and they are frantically mailing everyone on their list!

flash_uk wrote:There is some port in the catalogue, so if you've ever bought port at Christies maybe they thought you would be interested.

I would understand this a little if there were port in the catalogue, but there isn't. In Hong Kong, London or online. There is a lot of splendid Bordeaux (2 cases of Beaucaillou online at £260-£300, Derek) and rather a lot of Romanée Conti La Tâche (did they drink that a lot at Old Trafford? Did Roy Keane like that with a prawn cocktail sandwich?) but there is no port.

There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

This is the Christies one.

flash_uk wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

This is the Christies one.

I have the catalogue in front of me. Fine and Rare Wines. Christie's. Hong Kong Saturday 24 May 2014. London Thursday 5 May 2014. Online Only 9–23 June 2014. Alec Ferguson's beaming face. No port.

They're clearly selling this in different sub-auctions. The question remains. Why DHL me a catalogue from Hong Kong, especially the one that doesn't have the port in it?

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

This is the Christies one.

I have the catalogue in front of me. Fine and Rare Wines. Christie's. Hong Kong Saturday 24 May 2014. London Thursday 5 May 2014. Online Only 9–23 June 2014. Alec Ferguson's beaming face. No port.

They're clearly selling this in different sub-auctions. The question remains. Why DHL me a catalogue from Hong Kong, especially the one that doesn't have the port in it?

You mean 5 June? Pages 26 to 27 of the e catalogue. Maybe the printed one is different.

flash_uk wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

This is the Christies one.

I have the catalogue in front of me. Fine and Rare Wines. Christie's. Hong Kong Saturday 24 May 2014. London Thursday 5 May 2014. Online Only 9–23 June 2014. Alec Ferguson's beaming face. No port.

They're clearly selling this in different sub-auctions. The question remains. Why DHL me a catalogue from Hong Kong, especially the one that doesn't have the port in it?

You mean 5 June? Pages 26 to 27 of the e catalogue. Maybe the printed one is different.

Yes. It is! That is my point!
I know it's a bank holiday but honestly…

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:

djewesbury wrote:

flash_uk wrote:There is definitely port in one of the Ferguson auctions. Must be the London one.

Edit: lots 9001 to 9008

Different auction. No such lot numbers in this catalogue, in HK, London or online.

This is the Christies one.

I have the catalogue in front of me. Fine and Rare Wines. Christie's. Hong Kong Saturday 24 May 2014. London Thursday 5 May 2014. Online Only 9–23 June 2014. Alec Ferguson's beaming face. No port.

They're clearly selling this in different sub-auctions. The question remains. Why DHL me a catalogue from Hong Kong, especially the one that doesn't have the port in it?

They probably just lump your habits of buying port into the general category of "wine buyer" rather than getting more specific.


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They've clearly got money to burn. I'm hardly a top customer.

I've just realised, à propos flash's attempts to enlighten me (and see also, above, my stubborn refusal to be enlightened) that the thing they've spent so much money sending me by courier half-way around the world is not the catalogue at all. It's just an amuse-bouche, if your idea of having your bouche amused involves a lot of pictures of Alex Ferguson gurning about looking pleased with himself. It is a catalogue-sized, catalogue-format, catalogue-shaped, high gloss, poncey appetite whetter. If I want the full catalogue presumably I still have to shell out for it.

Why?

I've been told Sworders next sale in July (catalogue not yet published) has no fewer than 19 magnums of Offley '63

I don't think I've ever seen an Offley magnum before, and '63 magnums are pretty rare. I gather they are being offered as two lots of six and one of seven..

djewesbury wrote:Why?

I would suggest the following;
1) to provide you with a world class opportunity to be amusing about Alex Ferguson.
2) to allow you to vent frustrations which would otherwise be exercised on your nearest and dearest.
3) in the mistaken belief that you are the sort of person who enjoys being bombarded with the lives of the rich and famous, who are supposed to be intrinsically interesting to people who aren't.

I should also add that I would prefer 'gueule' to 'bouche', I feel it has a certain cachet, and 'to amuse the muzzle' sounds better in translation.

My own experience of being chased around involved some fairly desultory research into Japanese woodblock prints, I still get stuff through the post and all my Internet pages have adverts for the same all over them. Never bought a thing from any of them.

Now do I really need a magnum of Offley 63...

uncle tom wrote:I've been told Sworders next sale in July (catalogue not yet published) has no fewer than 19 magnums of Offley '63

I don't think I've ever seen an Offley magnum before, and '63 magnums are pretty rare. I gather they are being offered as two lots of six and one of seven..

Ooo! Tom - would you be willing to act as our buying agent? I'd love a couple of these please - or maybe even more!

Ooo! Tom - would you be willing to act as our buying agent? I'd love a couple of these please - or maybe even more!

No probs - anyone else interested?

Yes probably, depending on likely price obviously.

Price conversations privately, please.

I participated in an online auction that concluded this weekend, and am taking home 20 bottles of 1986 Gm ($27 per, all in) and 12 of 1985 G ($53 all in).

Feeling pretty good about the execution. Love both these wines and always looking to add at agreeable prices.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

At the GM vertical in 2010 GM86 was much liked.

jdaw1 wrote:At the GM vertical in 2010 GM86 was much liked.

Yes, and I first got exposed to it at a TPF event of some kind (but no record listed on the tasting notes thread?). I also have a stash of 375s, the first of which earned a monster score. http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=55894

Frankly, given how much I've enjoyed the Gm and Fg, I'm not sure how far behind I would rank '86 from '85. The Tv86 certainly, I've preferred to the T85.

Wooooo!!

My local auction house, http://www.curranddewar.com/auction-lis ... 0&mrows=40 , has a double magnum of Taylors 1976 lbv in their next sale. Does anyone know if this is filtered or unfiltered and will it be past it's best by now? Will buy it anyway if it sells near estimate but don't want to overpay if it's likely to be disapointing.

My local auction house, http://www.curranddewar.com/auction-lis ... 0&mrows=40 , has a double magnum of Taylors 1976 lbv in their next sale. Does anyone know if this is filtered or unfiltered and will it be past it's best by now? Will buy it anyway if it sells near estimate but don't want to overpay if it's likely to be disapointing.

I've yet to see a Taylor unfiltered LBV, so I think you can be pretty sure this is going to be filtered, and by now, probably very tired - although it will almost certainly be drinkable.

Think of this as a fun item - something to turn into a bedside lamp or stick a candle in after you've emptied it.

- I won't be bidding!

uncle tom wrote:

My local auction house, http://www.curranddewar.com/auction-lis ... 0&mrows=40 , has a double magnum of Taylors 1976 lbv in their next sale. Does anyone know if this is filtered or unfiltered and will it be past it's best by now? Will buy it anyway if it sells near estimate but don't want to overpay if it's likely to be disapointing.

I've yet to see a Taylor unfiltered LBV, so I think you can be pretty sure this is going to be filtered, and by now, probably very tired - although it will almost certainly be drinkable.

Think of this as a fun item - something to turn into a bedside lamp or stick a candle in after you've emptied it.

- I won't be bidding!

Thanks, knew recent Taylor's lbv was filtered but know nothing about any lbv from 70s.

mpij wrote:Thanks, knew recent Taylor's lbv was filtered but know nothing about any lbv from 70s.

Taylor's LBV has been filtered since they commercialised the style with their 1965. Part of the concept at the time was to have a vintage-style wine that could be popped and poured without decanting.

I have had the 1965, which wasn't a joy to behold, and a magnum of something from the 70s (76 I think) that was acceptable drinking but a bit stewed.

Don't pay lots for it and you will not be tood disappointed when you open it

So, group bid for the 6 rather good looking bottles of NN63 in the Sotheby's Finest and Rarest sale on the 19th?

djewesbury wrote:So, group bid for the 6 rather good looking bottles of NN63 in the Sotheby's Finest and Rarest sale on the 19th?

If they achieve the same sort of prices at Christies did last week, expect these to go for £7,000-9,000 per bottle!

But I might be interested. Perhaps. Probably not though.

As some of you may know, as a 1963 baby I love drinking port from that vintage. The highest profile shipper I have not yet tasted is Smith Woodhouse and in the last 15 years I have never seen a bottle offered for sale privately, through auction or at retail.

Last week, Charterhouse Auctions included a lot described as "Three bottles of Smith Woodhouse Vintage Port, 1963, and a bottle of Graham's Port". Since I was working close to their auction house I popped over at lunchtime to look at the bottles and perhaps leave a commission bid. I was rather shocked at what I found. I consider is disingenuous for an auction house to be lazy, sloppy or downright misleading in their cataloguing. Within 30 seconds of looking at the four bottles in the lot I identified that the lot contained 2 identical bottles with blue foils with one of them having a detached Smith Woodhouse 1963 label held on with an elastic band. The third bottle was Fonseca 1963 (identified by reading the branding on the cork through the pale glass) and the last bottle was Graham 1970 (identified from the stamp embossed into the wax seal). Whether the two identical bottles really are Smith Woodhouse 1963 or not, who knows. This was either sloppy or lazy cataloguing.

But what really wound me up was some of the other lots I looked at.

Lot 1061 was 4 bottles of Cockburn 1963. These had clearly been leaking, the corks had shrunk and were probably only held in place by the wax. I couldn't read the corks and there was no other identification on the bottles so goodness knows how these were identified.

Lot 1064 was described as "A bottle of Dow's Vintage Port, 1963, and four other bottles of port". The Dow was in good condition. The others were not. Again the corks had been allowed to dry out and shrink. None had fallen in, but none were providing a seal. I winced when I heard that had sold for about £280 inc. BP.

And lot 1069 was "Two bottles of Constantino's Vintage Port, 1945, both levels very low, a bottle of Roederer champagne, and one other bottle". Only if you asked for a condition report were you told that the Constantino bottles were both about half full with the cork of one visible floating in the liquid. At least these sold for a price which reflected the risk - £100 inc BP.

Some of the lots were very poor condition and really should have been rejected or at least fully disclosed. Anyone looking to buy these bottles for future drinking should have been made aware of the enhanced risk associated with these bottles - it looked to me as though most had been stored standing up for many years.

It's disappointing, but just underlines how important it is to inspect bottles rather than just rely on the competence and integrity of the auction house's wine expert.

Crikey. A few of us noticed that this was a rather strangely worded catalogue: did it not include '100 other lots of wine' with no further specification? The 'wine expert' at Charterhouse should really be held to account for this.

Do auction houses fall under trading standards legislation/regulation? If so it might be worth a phone call or letter to point the authorities in the direction of this catalogue.

Mmm..I took a spur of the moment decision to secure one of the lots (on-line) at Charterhouse for £90-sounds like I shouldn't expect too much!!