ThePortForum.com

uncle tom wrote:

a shame they don't break it down by actual type of Port (i.e. Crusted, VP, SQVP, Colheita, LBV, etc).

Actually they do - check out table 13

http://www.ivdp.pt/en/docs/Porto/Table%2013.pdf

All that is lacking is the historical information to tell you where the numbers are heading.

thanks, I didn't see that table when searching.

Is this still going?

It looks lik BBR's 2006 crusted (still produced by Dow) has just been released.

Is this still going?

Yes - anyone seen a 2005 Dow? - did they skip a year??

Sainsbury are now stocking the Graham 2006 crusted - currently available at £12+flumpence with 25% off if you buy 6.

And still new crusteds emerge from the past..

Have just taken delivery of two Warre '80, and have spied a stash of Martinez '73 coming to auction..

uncle tom wrote:have spied a stash of Martinez '73 coming to auction..

I noticed these. Are you going to that particular auction?

I noticed these. Are you going to that particular auction?

May bid online, but am fairly easy about these, so will not bid very aggressively on my own account for the whole stash. If anyone wants a share (I think there's eight bottles) please PM me to let me know how many bottles you'd like, and how much you'd like to run to; and I'll work out a collective bid position.

Tom if you win these and are willing to part with one or more let me know. 1973 is my birthyear and as you know it's not a great year for port. I'd love to finally try a port from this year.

I'm not bidding on the crusted but there were one or two other things caught my eye...

I'm not bidding on the crusted but there were one or two other things caught my eye...

There's been an email discussion circular about this sale already - PM me your email address, and I'll forward it to you..

Auction, by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on 14^th December 1893, included:
• Lots 82 to 88, totalling 20 dozen and 5 bottles “of Old Port, Graham, bottled 1886”, sold at 15/- to 20/- per dozen;
• Lots 89 to 95, totalling 20⅔ “Dozens of Port, Graham’s Blend of Vintages, bottled 1886”, sold at 14/- to 17/- per dozen;
• Lots 96 to 102, totalling 20⅓ “Dozens of Port, Graham’s Blend of Vintages, bottled 1885”, sold at 13/- and 14/- per dozen;
• Lots 103 and 104, totalling 7¾ “Dozens of Old Port, Graham, bottled 1885”, sold at 12/- per dozen;
• Lots 112 to 118 totalling 20⅔ “Dozens of Port, Graham’s blend of vintages, bottled 1883”, sold at 13/- per dozen;
• Lots 119 to 125 totalling 20¾ “Dozens of Port, Graham’s Blend of Vintages, bottled 1882”, sold at 13/- and 15/- and 14/- per dozen.

(My pictures 19748-51.)

Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on 7 May 1894, sold “The Cellar of Wines And About 6000 Cigars, The Property Of John Graham, Esq., Deceased, late of 18 Albert Gate, S. W.”. Lots 81 and 82 totalled 5 “Dozens of Blended Port, Graham, 2/3 1844, 1/3 1840, bottled in Oporto, 1846      Bin 23” at 80/- and 81/- per dozen. Lot 83 was “Four Dozens of Blended Port, Graham, 2/3 1840, 1/3 1844, bottled in Oporto 1847, more or less”, the quantity corrected in hand to 3 dozen and 6 bottles, and sold at 94/- per dozen.

(Pictures 19778-82.)

and sold at 94/- per dozen

Which sounds incredibly cheap, until you reckon it against average earnings, then and now.

The UKs average income has risen approximately 500 fold since the 1890s, which makes this price equate to around £200/btl..

Christie’s, 6^th July 1931: “Dow’s, crusted, 10 years in bottle”, sold at 48/- and 44/- per dozen.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 16 October 1973.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23487.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 8 November 1973.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23501.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 14 March 1974.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23568.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 7 November 1974.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23700.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 14 November 1974.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23727.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 20 February 1975.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23779.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 30 May 1975.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23807.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 26 June 1975.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23827.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 12 February 1976.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23927.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 14 July 1977.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24234.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 13 September 1977.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24251.)

On 11 October 1977 another 12 dozen was sold at £32 per dozen; and on 10 November 1977 another twelve dozen at £29 per. (Picture #s 24263 24279 24312.)

Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 6 December 1977.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24339.)

jdaw1 wrote:Auction, Christie, Manson & Woods, 12 February 1976.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #23927.)

Mmmm. Cockburn Crusted bottled 1968 - otherwise known as the 1966 vintage that was never declared.

AHB wrote:Mmmm. Cockburn Crusted bottled 1968 - otherwise known as the 1966 vintage that was never declared.

Is that consistent with pricing cheaper than that of Taylor crusted bottled 1963.

jdaw1 wrote:

AHB wrote:Mmmm. Cockburn Crusted bottled 1968 - otherwise known as the 1966 vintage that was never declared.

Is that consistent with pricing cheaper than that of Taylor crusted bottled 1963.

The only example we know of that could help prove this theory is the Cockburn Crusted 1977. That was undeclared 1977 VP bottled (and corked) as Cockburn Crusted 1977. If that was a continuation of a common practice then the Cockburn Crusted 1968 would be unreleased VP from 1968, not 1966. If it were unreleased VP from 1966 it would be Cockburn Crusted 1966.

I think it is just ordinary crusted port, bottled in 1968, probably from a mixture of vintages from the two or three preceding years.

As for the price difference, that is easily explained by the fact that the Taylor has more bottle age and by the fact that in this time period Taylor outranked Cockburn in the pricing stakes.

DRT wrote:As for the price difference, that is easily explained by the fact that the Taylor has more bottle age and by the fact that in this time period Taylor outranked Cockburn in the pricing stakes.

Agreed. And the price difference suggests that the general consensus at the time was that the Cockburn was indeed a crusted.

Auction, Christie’s, 14 February 1978.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24508.)

Auction, Christie’s, 30 March 1978.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24516.)

jdaw1 wrote:Auction, Christie’s, 30 March 1978.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24516.)

Being my birth year, If anyone comes across any of these let me know or buy them. Port from this year is quite hard to come by, though not necessarily great.

Andy Velebil wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Auction, Christie’s, 30 March 1978.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24516.)

Being my birth year, If anyone comes across any of these let me know or buy them. Port from this year is quite hard to come by, though not necessarily great.

Does the 1973 here refer to bottling date or the vintage of wine? I had assumed bottling date in this context, but hey may have done things differently then. What was the Martinez 73 crusted that we had recently?

RAYC wrote:Does the 1973 here refer to bottling date or the vintage of wine? I had assumed bottling date in this context, but hey may have done things differently then. What was the Martinez 73 crusted that we had recently?

Crusted is typically a blend of vintages, so the date is that of bottling. Of course there might be exceptions, but this is the default.

RAYC wrote:Does the 1973 here refer to bottling date or the vintage of wine? I had assumed bottling date in this context, but hey may have done things differently then. What was the Martinez 73 crusted that we had recently?

It was bottled 1973 (link to label image in the VPID).

jdaw1 wrote: Of course there might be exceptions, but this is the default.

Yes - it was just that that particular listing, in contrast to some of the other auction listings, did not specify that this was the bottling date (and Andy's subsequent reference to "Port of this year" gave me pause for thought given what Cockburn did in 1977 and, perhaps more directly comparable, what Graham did with Malvedos pre-Symington ownership).

Auction, Christie’s, 29 June 1978.

Sold at £35 per dozen.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24566.)

Auction, Christie’s, 14 August 1979.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24633.)

Cockburn Crusted 1977

If this is the undeclared Cockburn '77 VP? Are the Symingtons now selling it as Crusted?

Technically, if its being sold as Crusted, it should be sold as the '79 - when it was bottled.

Either way, I'll put it on the list if it's being marketed..

That was cited by DRT as an example of a liked Cockburn Crusted, rather than anything being marketed.

As far as I am aware the Ck77 has never been sold by the producer. Some have been given away and a few of those might have reached the secondary market. The "Crusted" status is pretty meaningless in this instance as it is an unapproved VP that was bottled for consumption by the Cockburn Directors and their guests. It is my understanding that the Symngtons are holding to that long-established tradition.

Wine & Food No. 127, Autumn 1965, page 86, records “A 1955 Claret Dinner” held by the Westwood branch of the Wine & Food Society on 7 April of that year. One of the wines was “Cockburn Crusted, btld. 1938, Avery”.

DRT wrote:As far as I am aware the Ck77 has never been sold by the producer. Some have been given away and a few of those might have reached the secondary market. The "Crusted" status is pretty meaningless in this instance as it is an unapproved VP that was bottled for consumption by the Cockburn Directors and their guests. It is my understanding that the Symngtons are holding to that long-established tradition.

Now reclassified as Vintage Port and sold on the open market so should be removed from this database if it was added.

DRT wrote:

DRT wrote:As far as I am aware the Ck77 has never been sold by the producer. Some have been given away and a few of those might have reached the secondary market. The "Crusted" status is pretty meaningless in this instance as it is an unapproved VP that was bottled for consumption by the Cockburn Directors and their guests. It is my understanding that the Symngtons are holding to that long-established tradition.

Now reclassified as Vintage Port and sold on the open market so should be removed from this database if it was added.

Hmm, but it was originally approved and consumed (and given away) as a crusted. Only later did it become a VP. I'd suggest leaving it for the record with an "*" indicating its later re-written history.

And one pedantic addition, it was registered as a Crusted to hide it on the books from the parent company as they were instructed not to make a 1977 VP. Quite cleaver of them I must say.

I don't see these in the database or posts I have read:
Churchill's Crusted 2005
Nieeport Crusted 2005

My mistake in Niepoort date (not 2005, but 2011, 2012 and 2014). There is also Quevedo Crusted Port (no bottling date see in the label).

Quevedo Crusted is bottled in 2012 - http://quevedoportwine.com/wp-content/u ... hSheet.pdf

jdaw1 wrote: ↑19:59 Wed 14 Oct 2009Harrods, Wine List Winter 1979/80 [my ref 02004], under the title ‟Crusting Port”:
• ‟Smith Woodhouse Bottled 1978 £5.00”;
• ‟Taylor Bottled 1974 £5.70”.

“Taylor Crusted, Bottled 1974” also present in the Autumn 1982 catalogue of Edward Sheldon, at £6.38 per bottle, or “case rate” of £6.06, or “6 case rate” of £5.76 (excl. VAT, which was then 15%).

The two in my cellar are the WS Crusted bot 2013 and the Waitrose Crusted bot 2015. Less exalted although the first is great port.