A place for those passionate about port, and for those new to it. We hold lots of Port tastings: please join us!
https://www.theportforum.com/
(There was also a link to this post on FTLoP, but it was deleted. Still pretending to be the only port forum on the web. Cool.)AHB, by text message from [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=46669#p46669]the tasting at the Bell on Thu 15 Dec 2011[/url], wrote:First feedback on sticky sheets do we have water tick-boxes?
↔ name? Or should the boxes surround the name?You probably check the glasses sheets because that is where the check-boxes are, at least currently. But should they be?g-man wrote:I check off on the placements actually since
Choices: Tasting Note, Placemat, Bothjdaw1 wrote:Presumably there should be a flag specifying whether the water boxes go on the glasses sheets or the TN sheets.
Indeed, should the water boxes always be on the TN sheets?
‘Both’ is an excellent suggestion. What should be the default? And where on the TN sheet should the boxes go.SushiNorth wrote:Choices: Tasting Note, Placemat, Both
Code: Select all
/WaterCounts true defCode: Select all
/WaterCountLocations /Both def % /Glasses /TastingNotes /Both /NoneNo. I have a notebook that I use when taking Port TNs, as do most of the people with whom I taste, so I typically do not even print the TN sheets. Yet I do find the water boxes useful and would like to continue having the option of them being on the placemat itself.jdaw1 wrote:Indeed, should the water boxes always be on the TN sheets?
Wilco. SushiNorth’s ‟Both” is looking better and better.Glenn E. wrote:and would like to continue having the option of them being on the placemat itself.
Btw, I vote for a solid line (clarification: of tickboxes) across the bottom -- after all, I'll probably have it flat on the table, it's good to just be able to tick them casually as I go. Unlike the placemats, they won't be covered with glasses.jdaw1 wrote:Presumably there should be a flag specifying whether the water boxes go on the glasses sheets or the TN sheets.
Indeed, should the water boxes always be on the TN sheets?
Agree with horizontal preference over vertical (though am happy with current 'cluster'). Personally prefer them bottom right (since am right handed), either next to the name or would happy with initials being bottom left instead with logo+glasses cluster at right (option: left side for lefties, right side for righties?).SushiNorth wrote:Btw, I vote for a solid line (clarification: of tickboxes) across the bottom -- after all, I'll probably have it flat on the table, it's good to just be able to tick them casually as I go. Unlike the placemats, they won't be covered with glasses.jdaw1 wrote:Presumably there should be a flag specifying whether the water boxes go on the glasses sheets or the TN sheets.
Indeed, should the water boxes always be on the TN sheets?
Sounds fine.jdaw1 wrote:Henceforth let’s assume right-handed. Obviously sides reversed for lefties.
I think I would prefer having icon and name on the left, and water boxes on the right. The water boxes would be in a cluster, like the green example above, excepting on the right.
Does that work for others?
Interesting idea. If water glasses are large wine glasses, with stem and foot, that might work. But it would be more awkward on a pint glass.AHB wrote:perhaps I could have had an adhesive water glass label that I stuck on my water glass and ticked off as I went along.
But what if there aren’t placemats? What if it’s stickies? AHB’s suggestion of a water-box sticky is growing on me and it wouldn’t have to be stuck to a glass.jdaw1 wrote:Wilco.Glenn E. wrote:and would like to continue having the option of them being on the placemat itself.
Or...jdaw1 wrote:But what if there aren’t placemats? What if it’s stickies? AHB’s suggestion of a water-box sticky is growing on me and it wouldn’t have to be stuck to a glass.jdaw1 wrote:Wilco.Glenn E. wrote:and would like to continue having the option of them being on the placemat itself.
Good point.jdaw1 wrote:The nurses would need tick-boxes.
That is already agreed. We are dealing with the difficult cases, not the ordinary cases.RAYC wrote:However, tick boxes on placemats should, i feel, be the default. There are not too many tastings that do not involve placemats.
Next I need to think about how to parametrise this.RAYC wrote:In which case there is some merit to the solution of tick boxes on stickers (that are then stuck to the table/a glass/a watch face/ the back of your palm)
Perhaps we could devise a standard way of doing this by using a feature on the placemats?jdaw1 wrote:To assess, look at the circle text through about 1cm of port in a titled glass.
On 2, provided the 100% was invisible or as good as, and the graduation of grey looked consistent, I don't think the variation of printer/toner would have much effect.jdaw1 wrote:A good idea.
➊ I’d like the test to be based on something standard, recommended by those expert in this field.
âž‹ Different printer resolutions can make different greys appear quite different. Might that confound the attempt at standardisation? (Also, but I think less, different toners might be a problem.)
I'm no expert, but I suspect it would be extremely difficult to embed one of those into Postscript.RAYC wrote:Or invest in one of these...
I agree with DRT - if the 100% is invisible then this should be a self-balancing test.DRT wrote:On 2, provided the 100% was invisible or as good as, and the graduation of grey looked consistent, I don't think the variation of printer/toner would have much effect.jdaw1 wrote:A good idea.
➊ I’d like the test to be based on something standard, recommended by those expert in this field.
âž‹ Different printer resolutions can make different greys appear quite different. Might that confound the attempt at standardisation? (Also, but I think less, different toners might be a problem.)
Perhaps if someone very clever could produce a test sheet we could each print a copy of it and bring them to the Bunghole to test whether or not the printer variation is significant. The test sheet does not have to part of the placemets.
This is similar to (better than, really) the method I use to judge very young Ports. I judge pencil-widths visible at the rim, but a ruler would be more precise and allow for rating older Ports as well.AHB wrote:An alternative approach might be to print a small ruler along one edge of the test; then to tip the glass and measure the distance from the rim at which the ruler becomes invisible. We could conduct some tests to develop an agreed standard.
That is what I had in mind, although the version I had in my head had white on the left and black on the right.jdaw1 wrote:Is what is wanted anything like this?
With numbers descending, 9 to 1? Ascending numbers seemed more natural to me, though it is easy to change.DRT wrote:That is what I had in mind, although the version I had in my head had white on the left and black on the right.
No. White on the left = 0% (as in fully transparent) and black on the right being 100% (as in 100% opaque).jdaw1 wrote:With numbers descending, 9 to 1? Ascending numbers seemed more natural to me, though it is easy to change.DRT wrote:That is what I had in mind, although the version I had in my head had white on the left and black on the right.
You are, of course, correct. My idea was in the early stages of development when I wrote the first post. Thankfully there are people here who can take semi-flawed ideas and make them workDRT wrote:Would that work?
That's because you're Scottish.DRT wrote:That is what I had in mind, although the version I had in my head had white on the left and black on the right.jdaw1 wrote:Is what is wanted anything like this?
The numbers are reversed to me. We're judging opacity, not the printed greyscale, so to me the numbers should indicate the opacity of the Port. I cannot be expected to do math while consuming alcohol.jdaw1 wrote:Are you sure? I think the ‟9” of ‟90%” needs to be against very pale grey. If you can’t see black on 10% grey, then the port is ≈90% opaque.
The Manual wrote:There are separate pages describing: the choosing of the page size
Glasses placemat: choosing a page size wrote:
- North American paper sizes:
- !
- 12→16: either split over multiple sheets of /USL, or /USL2 = US Ledger = 11″×17″
Eleven?! That's way too tight for glasses that aren't thimbles. You sure that wasn’t US Legal? For the Crusting Pipe glasses I now have a maximum of six on A4. Anyway, many such questions are answered by the following diagram.Glenn E. wrote:I have done 11 glasses on standard US Letter (8.5" x 11") and that was fine.
Hmm. That's possible, I guess. I'd have to pull it up (at home) to be sure. As I recall it was tight, but not so tight that the glasses were touching or even too close to pick up.jdaw1 wrote:Eleven?! That's way too tight for glasses that aren't thimbles. You sure that wasn’t US Legal? For the Crusting Pipe glasses I now have a maximum of six on A4.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=48465#p48465]Here[/url], in mid-Feb 2012, jdaw1 wrote:We tried the opacity test, from two different laser printers. The printers were too different, but both useless. Good experiment; bad result. Scrapped.
Opacity conversation continued in thread entitled Quantifying opacity in TNs.
In [url=http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/placemat/placemat.html#voterecorder]the manual[/url] jdaw1 wrote:For blind-tasting ‟What is it?” voting, typically the person who brought a bottle should not guess. Rectangles can be crossed out by setting VoteRecorderCrossedBox to code evaluating to a boolean, that code typically referring to WithinTitles and NameNum.
