‟Daily Drinker”, 2 Dec (was "are we wasting our money?")

[JacobH]

• +CHR’s +1 (more details please)

Eliza, EE, not know to be left-handed.

To the moderator, could I request that that CHR and EE be moderated in a light way since they are somewhat newer to this game then the rest of us (the same would apply to Nick Oakley, though from what I think is his website, he is fairly au fait with Port)?

[jdaw1]

Updated draft of the placemats.

• Sixteen Greeks (α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο Ï€), and S82;
• +EE;
• Food orders: do add yours.

And moderation here is always light.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I feel that the ideal number of bottles for a tasting like this one would be 10-14. That should give plenty of opportunity to examine different styles and price points. If we have 5-7 people attending then 2 bottles each seems appropriate. If we are more than 7 people then 1 bottle per person (plus some extra bottles if needed to make the numbers up to at least 10) seems better.

This then also leaves the chance for the odd extra bottle.

[DRT]

Changing to 1 bottles each adds a complication in terms of what can be added to the line-up. The current 2 bottles for up to £30 give a fairly wide range of possibilities. Those possibilities will reduce if the limit is changed.

Perhaps CHR and EE could be allowed special dispensation for their first tasting and bring 2 between them? Nick oakley is fine and already in for two.

Any additional attendees can just pay towards the food as previously suggested.

[JacobH]

Perhaps CHR and EE could be allowed special dispensation for their first tasting and bring 2 between them? Nick oakley is fine and already in for two.

Any additional attendees can just pay towards the food as previously suggested.

I think it will be CHR's third UK tasting, so I have suggested that she brings two (I think she has two in mind) and she sees if EE is happy just making a cash contribution towards the food as previously suggested.

That would be 14 bottles between 8 and if we could pick up a couple of more of the Usual Suspects between now and December we might end up with a ratio more in line with what AHB suggested.

[uncle tom]

and if we could pick up a couple of more of the Usual Suspects

- Would that mean me..?

Go on, put me down - I'm wanted at the CBI that day, and will need resucitation by the end of the afternoon..

Tom

[jdaw1]

Updated draft of the placemats.

• With THRA that’s nine people, the others being JGH, BMHR, DRT, AHB, RAYC, JNO, CHR and EE.
• Still with sixteen Greeks (α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο Ï€), and S82;
• Food orders: do add yours.

[uncle tom]

•Food orders: do add yours

Soup
Pave steak (medium) with pepper sauce
Cheese: Cropwell bishop & Lincolnshire poacher

Tom

[jdaw1]

Updated draft of the placemats.

• Nine people, being JGH, BMHR, DRT, AHB, RAYC, JNO, THRA, CHR and EE.
• Still with sixteen Greeks (α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο Ï€), and S82;
• Food orders: do add yours.

[benread]

•Food orders: do add yours

Soup
Pave steak (medium) with pepper sauce
Cheese: Cropwell bishop & Lincolnshire poacher

Tom

Put me down for the same but M-R on the steak, with no sauce.

Thank you.

[jdaw1]

Updated draft of the placemats.

• +BMHR’s food.
• ”“PrePour pages.
• Nine people, being JGH, BMHR, DRT, AHB, RAYC, JNO, THRA, CHR and EE.
• Sixteen Greeks (α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο Ï€), and S82;
• Food orders: missing AHB, JGH, CHR, EE.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'll order my food on the day, depending on what I feel like at the time.

[RAYC]

There was suggestion upthread that a modestly priced VP should be added as a ringer.

Would this be a good role for the Tesco 1994 to fulfil? After all, it is widely available, and at only £16.50 (and frequently available at 25% off) is a genuine contender at the type of price point we are looking at.

Not married to the idea, but just a thought. Suggest jdaw1 would allocate who should bring and it be included blind along with the others.

[DRT]

As I understand it there are no restrictions on type. There is really only one rule: Bring two bottles of port with a combined full retail cost of £30 or less, both of which are generally available at that price. With that rule it is possible for a number of SQVP's or BOB VPs to appear in the line-up alongside some basic rubys. (watch out for the Cruz 89!)

We do not need to go further than that.

The inevitable Sandeman 1982 will provide the necessary benchmark. If we finish the tasting and think "Bottle ?" was WOTN, and then taste the S82 and change our minds, we will know that we do not have to sell our cellars.

[jdaw1]

Bring two bottles of port with a combined full retail cost of £30 or less, both of which are generally available at that price.

Correct.

[jdaw1]

In assigning bottles, I might be evil and have one overlap. Just to keep you honest.

[JacobH]

As I understand it there are no restrictions on type. There is really only one rule: Bring two bottles of port with a combined full retail cost of £30 or less, both of which are generally available at that price. With that rule it is possible for a number of SQVP's or BOB VPs to appear in the line-up alongside some basic rubys. (watch out for the Cruz 89!)

Yes, I agree.

The only thing I would add is that I would encourage participants to have one bottle at c.£15 and one at c.£10. I think it would be fun if we could find an excellent Port at about £75 for a case of six, whereas we know if you are willing to spend £110 for a case of six you can easily find something pretty good.

[Alex Bridgeman]

While I accept that we have Judge Julian keeping us honest, I do wonder whether the £30 limit is too generous. At full retail value, for £30 I could buy a bottle of Tesco BoB vintage port and a bottle of Noval Unfiltered LBV and know that I was going to have jolly good drinking. Is the limit too generous? Should we say two bottles for a total of £20?

[RAYC]

The only thing I would add is that I would encourage participants to have one bottle at c.£15 and one at c.£10.

I like this approach - ensures that it is a good test of ruby/cheap lbv vs what you could get for a few £s more.

[JacobH]

While I accept that we have Judge Julian keeping us honest, I do wonder whether the £30 limit is too generous. At full retail value, for £30 I could buy a bottle of Tesco BoB vintage port and a bottle of Noval Unfiltered LBV and know that I was going to have jolly good drinking. Is the limit too generous? Should we say two bottles for a total of £20?

A "total cost" wasn't exactly what I had in mind for this tasting when I was thinking about this tasting. My view was that it would be nice if everyone brought one bottle that was very cheap (i.e. sub £10) and another that was a bit more expensive (up to about £15).

The flexibility in the total was so that someone could, if they wished, bring a couple of £13 bottles and because I didn't want to be overly prescriptive. But, as AHB mentioned, the aim of this tasting was to see if some of those cheaper Ports that we see every time we go to a supermarket are any good and whether there are one or two which could save us a lot of money by becoming our regular Ports to have at home.

I think most people will be happy to play along with that, and I am sure HHJ Wiseman's invisible hand might be able to point things in the right direction, if necessary.

[jdaw1]

The sense of the comments has been noted.

[Deleted_User_1]

From someone who is not very well....I am so confused as to what can and cannot be acceptable....please count me out....then please let me know if I missed anything. TY

[JacobH]

From someone who is not very well....I am so confused as to what can and cannot be acceptable....please count me out....then please let me know if I missed anything. TY

I'm sorry to hear that Ray. I've PM'ed you to see if there is a way around; otherwise, we will certainly let you know what the results are!

[JacobH]

I am afraid we have a problem: the Crusting Pipe switched to a Christmas menu on the 1st December which means: i) no cheap set menu; ii) higher corkage and iii) a requirement to pay a £10 deposit per person.

I think we can either try to find another date in November or try to find another venue (e.g. the Bowler?). What are people's views?

[DRT]

If the group stays small I vote for the Bowler. But we might find that the Christmas menu problem is a common theme

[Alex Bridgeman]

When you attempted to make the booking, who did you talk to? If not Andrew, I would suggest that you call back and insist on talking to Andrew. He will probably be happy to keep the normal rate of corkage, although we will probably have to swallow the higher menu cost and deposit. Do you want me to call them and try?

How many people do we have lined up? We could try for the tasting room at Big Yellow, which would probably be free - but we would have to get food from the nearest Pizza restaurant (or similar).

[jdaw1]

Testing new places is a good idea. If eating in Fulham the best pizza used to be, by a country mile, Pappa Ciccia, the website of which has problems. Nonetheless, 105 Munster Road SW6 5RQ, +44 20 7384 1884.

[DRT]

Big Yellow would be interesting to see. It would also give us an almost limitless supply of VP to call upon if we get thirsty or decide we aren't wasting our money

I don't like pizza (apart from at the times of the evening that everyone likes pizza).

[JacobH]

When you attempted to make the booking, who did you talk to? If not Andrew, I would suggest that you call back and insist on talking to Andrew. He will probably be happy to keep the normal rate of corkage, although we will probably have to swallow the higher menu cost and deposit. Do you want me to call them and try?

I only spoke to Patricia at the Crusting Pipe on Monday; so it may be that if you can speak to someone higher up then that would help (if you don't mind). The Christmas menu is quite expensive though: two courses for £24.95 or three courses at £28.95 (the steak is described as "8 oz Sirloin steak, aged for 21 days" which, of course, means nothing to me ) so the key thing would be to see if he would be happy to serve us the normal menu. I think they have been flexible about menus in the past and I can't see that they would be packed out with Christmas parties on the 2nd December...

[DRT]

I don't like pizza.

the steak is described as "8 oz Sirloin steak, aged for 21 days"

If you can get three of those on a pizza I am willing to give it a go.

[Alex Bridgeman]

When you attempted to make the booking, who did you talk to? If not Andrew, I would suggest that you call back and insist on talking to Andrew. He will probably be happy to keep the normal rate of corkage, although we will probably have to swallow the higher menu cost and deposit. Do you want me to call them and try?

I only spoke to Patricia at the Crusting Pipe on Monday; so it may be that if you can speak to someone higher up then that would help (if you don't mind). The Christmas menu is quite expensive though: two courses for £24.95 or three courses at £28.95 (the steak is described as "8 oz Sirloin steak, aged for 21 days" which, of course, means nothing to me ) so the key thing would be to see if he would be happy to serve us the normal menu. I think they have been flexible about menus in the past and I can't see that they would be packed out with Christmas parties on the 2nd December...

TCP have offered to meet us half-way. While they are unable to offer us our normal menu in December, they are happy to waive the deposit and retain the normal corkage charge of £10 per bottle and, as usual, provide glasses and water within that corkage fee. Our normal menu will be back in January, but on December 2 we will have a choice of eating from the Christmas menu (described by Jacob above) or from the full price A La Carte menu. This would make the overall cost per person something in the region of £50 + cost of port rather than our normal £35-40+.

I have provisionally booked a table in the tunnel for 8 people for December 2, and have until next Wednesday to cancel. No deposit is required given our regularity of visits.

Is anyone unhappy with these arrangements? If so, please say now.

Alex

[JacobH]

I have provisionally booked a table in the tunnel for 8 people for December 2, and have until next Wednesday to cancel. No deposit is required given our regularity of visits.

That sounds great; thanks.

A friend of mine, Chris (CJJ, r/h) has also said that he will try to join us (though he may have to pull out at the last moment).

[jdaw1]

Updated draft of the placemats.

• +CJJ;
• Still sixteen Greeks (α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο Ï€), and S82.

[Alex Bridgeman]

When will we be instructed what port we should be supplying to the tasting?

[jdaw1]

When will we be instructed what port we should be supplying to the tasting?

I have lists from JNO, DRT, BMHR, THRA, RAYC, and AHB. That’s seven.

CHR, EE, CJJ are presumably contributing towards food. JGH: are you food or port?

[JacobH]

I note that THRA has declared a list in flagrant violation of the rules; equally CHR has gone further by buying and earmarking a bottle for this occasion...

We could treat CHR's bottle as a wild-card (as in no-one would know if it was the same as another or not) and I could bring cash, making 15 bottles. Or we could do the same and I could bring Port, making 17. What would the consensus be?

[jdaw1]

Fifteen is plenty. I say bring cash.

Once this is decided I will send PMs with assignments.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Fifteen is plenty. I say bring cash.

Agreed

[jdaw1]

I have lists from JNO, DRT, BMHR, THRA, RAYC, and AHB. That’s seven.

I can’t count.

For this and another reason, a change of mind: JGH to bring bottles.

[benread]

Gents,

For this reason, I am no longer in a position to justify this night out to wife and two children. The caesarean has left her somewhat incapacitated.

Please excuse my late-ish change of status.

[jdaw1]

and another reason

For this reason

JGH: where are you?

[JacobH]

I've sent the list to jdaw1, apologies for being last. I'll remove (with regrets) BenR from the list.

and another reason

For this reason

JGH: where are you?

The City of London, probably in the parish of St Dunstan in the West?

[jdaw1]

Instructions have been sent by email to JNO, and by PM to THRA, DRT, AHB, JGH, RAYC, and, probably redundantly, BMHR.

[jdaw1]

Forgot to say: when purchasing your bottles keep and bring the receipt.

Everything stays wrapped until after the WOTN vote.

[JacobH]

Are we going to attempt to ensure that each person does not know which bottle is the one he brought? Or be more relaxed?

Also, what views do people have about decanting? Is the night before going to be sufficient for these wines or should we think about giving them a bit more time?

[jdaw1]

Are we going to attempt to ensure that each person does not know which bottle is the one he brought? Or be more relaxed?

Please bring bottles wrapped in foil. Arbitrarily, perhaps done by a non-participant, labels (last four pages of placemats to be printed onto Ryman 0220013460) are stuck to the foil. All taste all. Vote on WOTN, the winner being known only as a Greek letter. In turn, bottles are unwrapped. There is a delay whilst the person whose bottle this is remembers ‟that’s mine!”, and then fumbles for the receipt to announce cost.

Decanting? Before arrival people must remove capsules and wrap in foil. If there is sediment, double-decant. Timing thereof to be determined by person bringing bottles.

[JacobH]

Decanting? Before arrival people must remove capsules and wrap in foil. If there is sediment, double-decant. Timing thereof to be determined by person bringing bottles.

I was simply wondering, from the oenological point-of-view, what sort of decanting was best for these sorts of wines, and hoping for some discussion as to the optimal timing...

[Alex Bridgeman]

Most of the wines in the price bracket that we are talkinga bout will respond well to 24-72 hours of decanting. I certainly found that last time I drank a bottle of Bin 27, I enjoyed it more on the third day than I did on the first or second.

Perhaps we should aim to ensure that each bottle has between 24 and 48 hours of decanting time before being double decanted back into the original (or not, as the mischevious nature of the provider may dictate) bottle?

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm at home on my own for much of today. Is it too soon to decant my contribution for this tasting?

[DRT]

Fellow Attendees,

My house in Derbyshire currently looks like this...



The weather forecast for the remaider of this week does not look promising and it is possible that I will be unable to attend this event as I either won't be able to travel to London or my business meetings on Thursday and Friday might be cancelled

As a contingency, could I have a volunteer who has a better chance of attending than I have who could purchase two bottles locally on my behalf so that the line-up can remain intact if I cannot get there. The volunteer will become the owner of the two bottles I intended to bring along the next time I see him.

Derek