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Before I continue I must inform readers that during the tasting, Adrian Bridge mentioned the history of this company was very complex. I later found out when doing research for this article just how complex it was. With David Guimaraens and Chris Forbes very gracious help after the fact, I’ve done my best to accurately condense that complex history here.
Fonseca was founded in 1815. In 1822 Manuel Pedro Guimaraens gained control of the Fonseca Monteiro Co., left Portugal for London, and began selling Ports under many names; including Manuel Pedro Guimaraens, Fonseca Monteiro & Guimaraens, Fonseca Monteiro & Co, Fonseca & Guimaraens and Fonseca & Monteiro. By 1840 the company was the second largest shipper of wine and this was also the year that saw the very first Vintage Port released under just the “Fonseca” label. From this point forward the company only used the “Fonseca” label for it’s finest Vintage Ports, retaining the other labels for lesser quality ones.
While Quinta d. Terra Feita was under contract to Fonseca to supply Ports, the 1909 and 1911 vintages were released under the Quinta d. Terra Feita label and not a Fonseca label. For all intents and purposes, 1931 is considered the first vintage under the Fonseca-Guimaraens label. 1931 also saw a Fonseca Special Reserve released as well. In 1933 and 1934 the company released Vintage Ports under both Fonseca and Fonseca-Guimaraens labels. However, after 1934 the company changed their policy and the two labels were never again released in the same year.
The London company of M P Guimaraens & Son closed in 1928 and the offices were moved to Oporto and operated under Guimaraens & Co name. Yet Guimaraens & Co. and Fonseca remained separately run companies until 1967 when Alistar Robertson merged the two companies together. A move that saved both companies from financial ruin and eventually led again to their rise in prominence. I must clarify this last point, while the administrative parts merged, the stocks of wine remained separate to retain each houses distinctive heritage, traditions, and wine style.
Unlike many Shippers who release a Single Quinta Vintage Port in non-classic declared years, Fonseca-Guimaraens isn’t a Single Quinta. It is a blend from the same Quinta’s that classic declared Fonseca’s come from. This allows them to be very selective in choosing the top barrels to blend into a high quality product. In essence, a Fonseca-Guimaraens is nothing more than a true Fonseca in a year not deemed a classic.
I think SQVP ought to be priced a bit lower, the margins presumably are evened out over the years. And when has any world class wine's price had anything to do with production costs? Rhetorical; never.PopulusTremula wrote:If FG = F with respect to blend and assuming the method, care and skill required for producing both wines is the same for the two, what does that say about the margins for the two wines?
In a way SFE is at least consistent in that they price the SQVPs in a similar way to their ordinary VPs, albeit we would all like them to be consistently lower.
The relationship between the principal shipping companies is less than cosy at the moment, and their may be an element of point scoring here. Best for us mere mortals to simply take advantage of modest prices when they are offered.but the price differential is quite striking
Sigh, QuintaDeLaRosa.com stops at 2011.Axel P wrote:... and La Rosa.
And VAllegre.pt stops at 2007.Axel P wrote:Vista Allegre also declared 2012 Vintage Port.
I recall a comment from someone somewhere at sometime that, when made, FG has historically been produced in significantly larger quantities than F (or at least since the mid-80s, when the amount of Fonseca proper started to decline from the 40-50,000 cases produced in 1985). Unhelpfully i can't remember whether this was an informed statement by David Guimaraens or pure speculation by THRA!PopulusTremula wrote:If FG = F with respect to blend and assuming the method, care and skill required for producing both wines is the same for the two, what does that say about the margins for the two wines?In a way SFE is at least consistent in that they price the SQVPs in a similar way to their ordinary VPs, albeit we would all like them to be consistently lower.
One could argue the same about the Graham’s Six Grapes which is also supposed to be produced with Vintage Quality grapes (and has the added expense of filtration!PopulusTremula wrote:If FG = F with respect to blend and assuming the method, care and skill required for producing both wines is the same for the two, what does that say about the margins for the two wines?In a way SFE is at least consistent in that they price the SQVPs in a similar way to their ordinary VPs, albeit we would all like them to be consistently lower.
). I thought the Fonseca Guimaraens was now being produced in quite small quantities and was seen as a bit of a legacy product for the British market? I think that someone told me the plan was to make the Quinta do Panascal as its main second-label wine (since people expect a second-label VP to be a SQVP).RAYC wrote:I recall a comment from someone somewhere at sometime that, when made, FG has historically been produced in significantly larger quantities than F (or at least since the mid-80s, when the amount of Fonseca proper started to decline from the 40-50,000 cases produced in 1985). Unhelpfully i can't remember whether this was an informed statement by David Guimaraens or pure speculation by THRA!
Yes, indeed. Rather inexplicably, really, since it is consistently very good.RAYC wrote:In my mind Croft Roeda has always had a history of being priced at the very low end of VP - Roeda 97 was incredibly cheap for a long time and undiscounted merchant prices for the ex-cellars release of Roeda 1987 were (when i purchased in 2008) around the £20 mark all-in.
Yes, we tasted it at the Quinta. I had it behind the '11 and '07, and even with the '04. Superb juice.AHB wrote:Roy recently posted a picture on Facebook of a complete vertical of Quinta do Vale Meao, which included a 2012 vintage.
I'm not sure that that is particularly significant in terms of the quality of the wine (as opposed to meeting some of the "characteristics" that VP is supposed to have) - for instance, I understand it was the same story with Bioma 2008.uncle tom wrote:A well respected member of the trade (not in either the Symington or TFP camps) told me today that it was initially refused IVDP approval, and only won through on appeal
The Barros Quinta is named GaleiraAxel P wrote:Barros Quinta de Galura (Part of Sao Luiz)
Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo
So Galura was bought and incorporated into Sao Luis. So is it now part of Sao Luiz, thus no longer Galura? Or is it still its own "demarcated" (to use the term) Quinta? I'm confused.Stefan wrote:The Barros Quinta is named GaleiraAxel P wrote:Barros Quinta de Galura (Part of Sao Luiz)
Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo
The total area has suffered the impact of two changes: on the one hand, the construction of the Bagaúste dam, with the consequent rise of the level of water, where a part of the area was lost; on the other hand, the area enlarged with the acquisition of several other properties situated in the same area, as Quinta da Mesquita 1972) Quinta da Lobata (1974) Quinta da Alegria (1982) Quinta da Galeira in 1987. Today, Quinta de S. Luiz cover 125 hectares of total area, which 90 hectares have, vineyards.