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I would argue against d r awing lots for years - I am not sure I would want to provide 2xG48 or Nacional 64 by myself...

It would be useful to get a vague idea on costs - a 2x16 vintage vertical that includes duplicate G48, Ni56, NN64 and T92 supported by 13 paying TPF members (if we go for an 18 limit) might end up quite expensive. In terms of room/food/glass arrangements, would we be paying for this or is it just the wines that need to be purchased?

I thought that may invoke a reaction..which is good because that was the intention...the cost is for wine only as the Ambassador is kindly providing food etc..we will, however, need to provide glasses as they would not have anywhere near the number required.
Once we have decided on the wines I think we should divide the cost equally between TPF members but limit the cost to £200 each...thus compensating those providing the '48's and '56's and allowing a good quality of later years.

The first thing though is to decide on the wines...we can put a firm cost on the evening when this is known.

I am still waiting to hear from the Ambassador as to whether he has anything to contribute...my bet is that he has.

This is an event at which TPF costs should be shared. The required bottles will be of very different costs, so expecting somebody to adopt a year would be unfair.

Cookie wrote:I know we are capable of hosting a tasting of up tp to 24 because we did that at the RAF Club for the Malvedos tatsing.

No, we didn't. I decanted every bottle of Port for the Malvedos tasting and can confirm that there was only one bottle of each vintage, and the Organisation Thread shows 14 attendees.

As far as I can recall, we have never had more than 14 glasses of each wine at a tasting. We have not been inundated with applications to join recent large tastings and have invariably been scrambling around in the few days before the event trying to fill vacant seats. Are we perhaps being too ambitious here?

If we have to fill 20ish seats, then 15 are paying for 20, so 1⅓ each. If we restrict to the usual 14 seats, thereby avoiding double-bottles, then 9 will be paying for 14, so 1.555 each, a factor of 1â…™ times more. That’s tolerable.

Agreed and therefore guest list amended....reserve list based on order of request.

DRT wrote:

Cookie wrote:I know we are capable of hosting a tasting of up tp to 24 because we did that at the RAF Club for the Malvedos tatsing.

No, we didn't. I decanted every bottle of Port for the Malvedos tasting and can confirm that there was only one bottle of each vintage, and the Organisation Thread shows 14 attendees.

As far as I can recall, we have never had more than 14 glasses of each wine at a tasting. We have not been inundated with applications to join recent large tastings and have invariably been scrambling around in the few days before the event trying to fill vacant seats. Are we perhaps being too ambitious here?

We already have 13 paying people who have registered interest (assuming Oscar is a 6th guest). If all were ready to commit, does that make the 2-bottle line-up work?

To reduce that to 8 seems to be a bit of a departure from the spirit of how TPF events are organised on the board, though I understand if it has to happen.

On the money side, 200 per paying person gives us a working budget of 1600gbp. Glass-hire, if we go that route, will be 250-300. Does that leave the fighting funds we need if we are starting to talk about 60s nationals and 40s grahams?

I've no doubt that this will be a great event and the details will work itself out, and am very keen if there's a space for me.

RAYC wrote:We already have 13 paying people who have registered interest (assuming Oscar is a 6th guest). If all were ready to commit, does that make the 2-bottle line-up work?

To reduce that to 8 seems to be a bit of a departure from the spirit of how TPF events are organised on the board, though I understand if it has to happen.

I didn't check the first post before suggesting limiting to 14. If the 13 TPF attendees are willing to commit now then this might work. But, as this is a fixed line-up, and in order for it to be safe for the organiser to proceed to buy these wines, I would suggest that the 13 should commit on the basis of coughing up £200 by 28 Feb to put the organiser in funds. If anyone pulls out they would lose their £200 unless they find someone to take their seat. A settling-up against real cost can happen neared the time.

Does that sound fair?

DRT wrote:

RAYC wrote:We already have 13 paying people who have registered interest (assuming Oscar is a 6th guest). If all were ready to commit, does that make the 2-bottle line-up work?

To reduce that to 8 seems to be a bit of a departure from the spirit of how TPF events are organised on the board, though I understand if it has to happen.

I didn't check the first post before suggesting limiting to 14. If the 13 TPF attendees are willing to commit now then this might work. But, as this is a fixed line-up, and in order for it to be safe for the organiser to proceed to buy these wines, I would suggest that the 13 should commit on the basis of coughing up £200 by 28 Feb to put the organiser in funds. If anyone pulls out they would lose their £200 unless they find someone to take their seat. A settling-up against real cost can happen neared the time.

Does that sound fair?

I think this is a very fair way to proceed. I would be happy to pay up sooner than that if it helps.

I am willing to pay sooner. Or, if the list needs to be shrunk, I could stand aside. Me = Mr Flexible.

I've been doing some thinking about this event - the first thing I realised is that I am going to have to drop out as I will not be in the UK on 25th July Please remove me from the list of attendees.

Secondly in terms of the practicalities of the event. Have you seen the room? Is it really big enough to accommodate 24 people for a sit down tasting? Will there be space for glasses and tasting notes and food or is the 24 person limit based on a normal sit-down dinner and the space required for everyone to eat in comfort?

Does the room have air conditioning? If it is a really hot day in July, can the room and the ports be kept cool? Or are lots of ice and ice buckets easy to procure?

The cost could be underestimated. My experience is that if we supply ports for a tasting from our personal cellars then we usually beat Wine Searcher prices by about 20%. Wine searcher has a line up similar to the one suggested by Tom priced at £2,750 for the 16 bottles. Take off the 20% and add on glass hire and you get an cost estimate of £2,500. If this is a one bottle tasting with 6 guests and 8 TPF paying attendees then this works out to be £312.50 per TPF member. Fill the table with 24 attendees, of which 18 are TPF paying members and have two bottles of each wine and the cost works out to be about £280 per TPF member.

I would be happy to pay up front if there is a place for me once numbers/cost discussions are resolved.
One thought on numbers; Since this is a port-tasting event I guess the likely answer is "yes", but has it been confirmed that the Ambassador and all four of his guests will be wanting port? It would be a shame to drop a TPF port spot if any of the Ambassador's guests are non-port-drinking partners, for example.

AHB wrote:The cost could be underestimated. My experience is that if we supply ports for a tasting from our personal cellars then we usually beat Wine Searcher prices by about 20%. Wine searcher has a line up similar to the one suggested by Tom priced at £2,750 for the 16 bottles. Take off the 20% and add on glass hire and you get an cost estimate of £2,500. If this is a one bottle tasting with 6 guests and 8 TPF paying attendees then this works out to be £312.50 per TPF member. Fill the table with 24 attendees, of which 18 are TPF paying members and have two bottles of each wine and the cost works out to be about £280 per TPF member.

AHB is normally quite accurate in his estimations for such events. If this is indeed going to cost in the region of £300 per head I am sorry to say that it is not for me as most of these wines are likely to be curiosities. If others are more keen that I am them please drop me down to a possible attendees and allow someone lower down the list to take my place.

DRT wrote:

AHB wrote:The cost could be underestimated. My experience is that if we supply ports for a tasting from our personal cellars then we usually beat Wine Searcher prices by about 20%. Wine searcher has a line up similar to the one suggested by Tom priced at £2,750 for the 16 bottles. Take off the 20% and add on glass hire and you get an cost estimate of £2,500. If this is a one bottle tasting with 6 guests and 8 TPF paying attendees then this works out to be £312.50 per TPF member. Fill the table with 24 attendees, of which 18 are TPF paying members and have two bottles of each wine and the cost works out to be about £280 per TPF member.

AHB is normally quite accurate in his estimations for such events. If this is indeed going to cost in the region of £300 per head I am sorry to say that it is not for me as most of these wines are likely to be curiosities. If others are more keen that I am them please drop me down to a possible attendees and allow someone lower down the list to take my place.

Whilst I agree Alex is usually correct in his estimation of cost, I am assured that there will be a 'considerable' contribution by our host and his guests...once I know the full details I will then be able to advise on actual cost nearer the time...meanwhile attendees remain as posted.

Hi Cookie,

after reading this thread I think whatever happens we likely have still too many people being interested to attend (limit to 14people=9TPF+5embassy). After having a careful look into the calendar I realised that there is quite a high likelihood that I will not be able to make this tasting, I decided to pull out . Especially due to the fact that comittment is needed now I think this is only fair.

cu Monday

WS1

I would be needing some time in advance. I guess Andy, too, since we need to book flights and they do not seem to get cheaper getting closer to the date.

Axel

I do not want to dump the organiser in difficulty. But it seems to me that expense will exceed pleasure. If I can run away without causing a problem, I would do so.

While I'm only on the reserve list, I most likely will not be able to get over there for this. You can remove my name from the list, so as not to cause any issues with others wanting to wait for an open seat.

Speaking to Ray last night, I would urge people not to take my note above too seriously. Ray has a cunning plan that should deliver this tasting closer to his cost estimate than to mine. Please be patient and see what happens.

I appreciate there are still issues to resolve; if it is possible to provide an update the planned attendance on whether people are/aren't dropping out and number of spaces determined that would be appreciated, so I can sort accommodation as early as possible if needed (this would be much harder/more expensive nearer the time given the olympics!) - I almost booked last week given the sign-offs, but given Alex's last post I held off for now.

I have made an executive decision regarding this tasting in that....I will increase the attendees list to 16...this will mean that we will have 1 bottle per person, a formula we have used successfully in the past.

I am striving to keep the cost of this tasting down to a bare minimum and I believe this can be achieved by the generous contributions expected over the coming months. This along with the Ambassadors contribution of dinner and Oscar arranging the glasses through the IVDP, I believe this tasting is achievable for all those originally interested.

I have amended the attendee list to reflect this decision and kept in those who have expressed concern over cost in the hope that the tasting will fall within budget for everyone.

Cookie wrote:1. His Excellency Dr Joao de Vallera

Don’t rob our host of his accent: ‟His Excellency Dr João de Vallera”.

jdaw1 wrote:

Cookie wrote:1. His Excellency Dr Joao de Vallera

Don’t rob our host of his accent: ‟His Excellency Dr João de Vallera”.

I can see the squiggly line for such occasions but I have no idea on how to get it on top of the 'a'...perhaps you could enlighten me please.

Copy-paste. Perhaps from the page www.jdawiseman.com/cp.html.

I've been chewing this one, and aside from a heartfelt plea to the trade to find something - anything..! - from '56, I think it's do-able without breaking the bank..

Possible line- up:

2008 - Quevedo - need to source, but readily available, cost for 2 btls c.£40

2004 - Noval - need to source - cost maybe £70 (2btls)

2000 - Delaforce - can supply @ £50/2

1996 - Vesuvio - can supply @ £35/2

1992 - Eira velha - can supply @ £35/2

1998 - Fonseca Guimaraens - can supply @ £25/2

1984 - Warre Cavadinha - can supply @ £30/2

1980 - Dow - can supply @ £70/2

1976 - Graham Malvedos - have one bottle only - anticipated cost for 2 c. £80

1972 - Have Dow, but good slot for Sandeman - anyone have stock?

1968 - Niepoort colheita - can supply @ £110/2

1964 - Have Nacional, but good slot for Taylor Vargellas - anyone have stock?

1960 - Croft - can supply @ £120/2

1956 - Problem!!

1952 - Niepoort colheita - can supply @ £130/2

1948 - Martinez - Can supply @ £190/2btls

..before I send a begging missive to the trade for a '56 of some description - any other thoughts??

uncle tom wrote:I've been chewing this one, and aside from a heartfelt plea to the trade to find something - anything..! - from '56, I think it's do-able without breaking the bank..

Possible line- up:

2008 - Quevedo - need to source, but readily available, cost for 2 btls c.£40

2004 - Noval - need to source - cost maybe £70 (2btls)

2000 - Delaforce - can supply @ £50/2

1996 - Vesuvio - can supply @ £35/2

1992 - Eira velha - can supply @ £35/2

1998 - Fonseca Guimaraens - can supply @ £25/2

1984 - Warre Cavadinha - can supply @ £30/2

1980 - Dow - can supply @ £70/2

1976 - Graham Malvedos - have one bottle only - anticipated cost for 2 c. £80

1972 - Have Dow, but good slot for Sandeman - anyone have stock?

1968 - Niepoort colheita - can supply @ £110/2

1964 - Have Nacional, but good slot for Taylor Vargellas - anyone have stock?

1960 - Croft - can supply @ £120/2

1956 - Problem!!

1952 - Niepoort colheita - can supply @ £130/2

1948 - Martinez - Can supply @ £190/2btls

..before I send a begging missive to the trade for a '56 of some description - any other thoughts??

Just some ideas, in case they might help:
- For 68, instead of a second Ni Col, you could replace with 68 Romaneira, available at 35euro/bottle in Germany, if Axel were happy to purchase for us perhaps?
- I'd also be tempted to make the 92 the Fonseca, though then we'd have to fill the 88 alternatively; perhaps a Calem or SW88? (I have [only] one SW88 which I'd be happy to donate if that would help).
- My only thought for the 56 would be to take a really nice 55 and use a black marker pen on it

Although 1956 was a good madeira vintage.

Please could we have an update on the state of play.

DRT wrote:

AHB wrote:The cost could be underestimated. My experience is that if we supply ports for a tasting from our personal cellars then we usually beat Wine Searcher prices by about 20%. Wine searcher has a line up similar to the one suggested by Tom priced at £2,750 for the 16 bottles. Take off the 20% and add on glass hire and you get an cost estimate of £2,500. If this is a one bottle tasting with 6 guests and 8 TPF paying attendees then this works out to be £312.50 per TPF member. Fill the table with 24 attendees, of which 18 are TPF paying members and have two bottles of each wine and the cost works out to be about £280 per TPF member.

AHB is normally quite accurate in his estimations for such events. If this is indeed going to cost in the region of £300 per head I am sorry to say that it is not for me as most of these wines are likely to be curiosities. If others are more keen that I am them please drop me down to a possible attendees and allow someone lower down the list to take my place.

I remain unconvinced. Please can someone tell us what the plan is and convince us it is a good use of ££££ ?

Have just returned from Portugal complete with two bottles of 1956 - kindly supplied by Dirk after a lot of searching by Nick Delaforce.

To give some idea of the rarity of this vintage, Dom Symington (whose birth year is 1956) tells me that his family does not possess a single bottle from this vintage, either of port or madeira.

Anyway, this means that the event is now ON, and unless anyone has any objections, I am happy to sponsor the event under the TPS banner to fix costs.

On that front, upon hearing of the event, the new head of the IVDP has very kindly offered to donate the glasses, although that will probably be on the basis of the Portuguese tasting regime that has three of four glasses per person, rather than a whole table full.

If there is any further sponsorship, that that will further reduce the sign-up cost, but at this stage I can guarantee that the total cost of the evening will not exceed £150 per person.

I am happy to hand the organising over to Tom.

Nice job Tom! Good news on the 56 and the event sponsorship, am looking forward to it.

Good job Tom.

I would rather pay extra to do glasses properly, rather than that be free and not properly. But perhaps that is a minority view?

(Note to self: check whether the draft of the placemats has the correct ’56.)

Nice work - sounds like the plan is coming together nicely.

Whilst i do not want to look a gift horse in the mouth or turn down a generous offer, i would echo jdaw1's comments re: glasses (particularly if we have a full complement of attendees to share the port between, but also becuase i do not want to feel that i have to finish/throw away one port entirely before moving to another). If there's a way of ensuring this without causing offence, i think we should.

Nice job, Tom. I am now convinced.

I agree with JDAW and RAYC that doing the glasses properly is the way to go. I think Riedels would be doing it properly.

Attendees list updated...anyone on it that is unable to attend please let me know as soon as possible.

The final cost of the tasting will be announced w/c 18th June but expected to be around £150... money will be collected soon after.

By way of an update Tom and I are meeting with The Ambassador on Wednesday 27th June to discuss the tasting and to see if there are any logistic issues.

We will obviously look at space and timings etc but if anyone has a vital question that could/should be asked at that meeting then please say.

Cookie wrote:We will obviously look at space and timings etc but if anyone has a vital question that could/should be asked at that meeting then please say.

Clearly the most important one is whether he is left or right handed...

JacobH wrote:

Cookie wrote:We will obviously look at space and timings etc but if anyone has a vital question that could/should be asked at that meeting then please say.

Clearly the most important one is whether he is left or right handed...

Good call...thank you Jacob

Hi,

after I have to be in London in order to complete my move to the countryside I would like to join in on the 25th of July and confirm my attendance.

regards

WS1

Following our visit to the Embassy yesterday I am very happy to report that the space available to us is superb and can easily accomodate all glassware and dinner without the need to move.

I have updated the attendee list and please note the slight change of venue address from the Embassy at No.11 to No.12 the Ambassadors Residence across the road.

In order to get through the wines we need to arrive for 17.30 prompt with a view to sitting down by 17.45. We will have the wines in two flight starting with the first eight wines 2008-1980 inclusive. Dinner at around 19.45hrs followed by second flight 1976-1948.

If there is still anyone on the list who is unable to make it then please say as soon as possible.

Cookie wrote:We will have the wines in two flight starting with the first eight wines 2008-1980 inclusive. Dinner at around 19.45hrs followed by second flight 1976-1948.

Can you please explain the reason for the order of the wines? Previous experience suggests that most people will have rather fatigued palates by the end of the first flight. Do we really want to be tasting a 1948 after 15 other Ports, some of which will be very young and tannic?

Can you please explain the reason for the order of the wines? Previous experience suggests that most people will have rather fatigued palates by the end of the first flight. Do we really want to be tasting a 1948 after 15 other Ports, some of which will be very young and tannic?

The thinking was to keep the most interesting wines for after dinner, which would itself provide an opportunity to refresh palates. It also fits with the plans for the place settings, which I hope to make rather more elegant and professional in appearance, with the glass placemats printed on single large sheets of buff cartridge paper, guillotined to size.

Updated draft of placemats

• One page of A3, by request of THRA.

jdaw1 wrote:Updated draft of placemats

• One page of A3, by request of THRA.

Looks impressive.

Note for JDAW: I think AHB, Elizabeth and Andy V. have declared themselves out.

Question for Cookie: have you had confirmations from Axel, Carl and Alex K?

RAYC wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Updated draft of placemats

• One page of A3, by request of THRA.

Looks impressive.

Note for JDAW: I think AHB, Elizabeth and Andy V. have declared themselves out.

Question for Cookie: have you had confirmations from Axel, Carl and Alex K?

Confirmed!

p.s. I like the text in the numerals.

Updated draft of placemats

• ”“AHB, ”“EAB, ”“ADV;
• +CRS.

Cookie or Uncle T.: please check the names and post here any errors (or that they are correct).

griff wrote:p.s. I like the text in the numerals.

FillTexts.

Also - is this a more up-to-date line-up than the one you currently have included on the tasting mats?

griff wrote: p.s. I like the text in the numerals.

Gave my printer something to think about just now though - a single A3 page took 20 minutes!

From an aesthetic point of view, personally i think that title and fill text may benefit from being a slightly lighter shade.

jdaw1 wrote:Please could we have an update on the state of play.

RAYC wrote:Also - is this a more up-to-date line-up than the one you currently have included on the tasting mats?

Please could we have an update on the state of play.

RAYC wrote:Gave my printer something to think about just now though - a single A3 page took 20 minutes!

When making a draft of a complicated page, that is, of pages using the FillTexts, I set FillTextPrintQuickerDistillSlower to false. For the final it will be set to true, which will increase the distillation time to a large fraction of an hour, but reduce the file size and print time, at least a little.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=42222#p42222]Here[/url] in the thread entitled [i]Software that makes placemats[/i], on 24 April 2011, jdaw1 wrote:Drafting placemats for The London Olympiad Vertical showed me how slow is the combination of FillTitles and PlaceNames.

So the old code has been improved, with the addition of a new parameter FillTextPrintQuickerDistillSlower. If this is true the text-filling distillation is now about 1½× faster than before, if false then much much faster. In particular, for the current draft placemats of The London Olympiad Vertical, the old code took 60 minutes; new with true about 40 minutes; new with false an edge more than one minute.

If not using PlaceNames then new with false takes 29 seconds.