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1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
This post to hold plans as and when agreed.
Date:
Tue 16 Nov 2021
Where: The Red Room,
Boot & Flogger. (Reservation acknowledged and accepted by Gary at 15:07 on Wed 31 Mar 2021. Confirmed by the computer Tue 07 Sep 2021, “14 people on Tuesday 16 November 5pm to 11pm … reference: DMN-16738297119”.)
People:
- JDAW;
- SCD;
- HTWH;
- TC;
- AHB;
- CPR;
- MPM;
- ZDR;
- WHW;
- RON;
- IDJ;
- GEAG;
- NAC;
- CMAG.
Waitlist:
Bottles available, a subset of which chosen:
- Burmester — WHW;
- Cá = Cálem — JMK, HWH;
- Ck = Cockburn — IDJ, HWH;
- Cr = Croft — TC, HWH;
- Df = Delaforce — IDJ;
- D = Dow — JMK, WHW, CPR, GEAG, GEE;
- EV = Eira Velha — CPR, HWH;
- Fr = Ferreira — WHW;
- F = Fonseca — GEE, TC, PW (inconvenient);
- GC = Gould Campbell — GEAG, NAC;
- G = Graham — JMK, WHW, CPR, PW (inconvenient), GEE, GEE (magnum), HWH, HWH (magnum);
- K = Kopke — CPR;
- Mz = Martinez — AHB, HWH;
- Ni = Niepoort — WHW, HWH, PW cask sample in ½;
- N = Noval — JMK, GEE;
- NN = Noval Nacional — TC;
- Ps = Passadouro — NAC, HWH;
- P&W = Paxton & Whitfield — AHB;
- QH = Quarles Harris — HWH;
- RP = Ramos Pinto — WHW, GEE;
- RPE = Ramos Pinto Ervamoira — CPR;
- Ra = Romaneira — WHW;
- Rs = Rosa — GEAG, PW, NAC;
- RO = Royal Oporto — PW;
- S = Sandeman — JMK, HWH;
- SW = Smith Woodhouse — GEAG;
- Ts = Tesco (QH?) — JMK;
- T = Taylor — JMK, GEAG, GEE (magnum), NAC, NAC (magnum);
- V = Vesuvio — GEAG, PW (inconvenient), GEE;
- W = Warre — GEAG, PW (inconvenient), HWH, HWH (double-magnum).
Current draft of
the placemats.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
My recollection of the 1994 disagrees with that of others whose judgement I respect. You know what this means.
Tuesday 16th November 2021?
Edit — previous 1994 horizontals:
How big a tasting? The binding constraint might be table size. The Red Room table is tight with fourteen × 3 × A4. If there are nineteen glasses we can use A3 + A4, underlapping the A4 by ≈64mm. (Radius ≈ 118.978pt ≈ 1.65″ ≈ 41.97mm.)
Or twenty-one on A2 trimmed to be 1″ = 25.4mm taller than A4, and 86.0mm ≈ 3.39″ less wide than 3×A4. (Radius ≈ 122.841pt ≈ 1.71″ ≈ 43.34mm.)
Original plan was nineteen; later
upgraded to
twenty-one.
Which Ports?
This part of the post will be edited as the set of available Ports changes.
Currently available are 30 different 1994s: B, Cá, Ck, Cr, Df, D, EV, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, N, NN, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Ra, Rs, RO, S, SW, Ts, T, V, W.
Wine-Searcher suggests that availability is:
Good — Ck, Cr, D, F (expensive), G, QH, Rs, SW, T, V, W;
Some — Df, GC, Ni, N (expensive), NN (expensive), Ps, RP, S, Sk;
Little — B, Cá, EV, Fr, K, RPE, Ra, RO, Ts.
• Exclude NN on grounds of cost.
• So prioritise the RP-RPE pair over the N-NN pair (also see
comment of GEAG).
• The purported Skeffington has already been drunk (
!), and has been replaced with Kopke.
• General agreement to remove pre-Symington Cockburn, it being replaced with Cálem.
• Team seemed keen on Mz; and I on Fr.
Updated selection:
Cá, Cr, Df, D, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.
Comment? Agreement? Objections?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Doggett
Yes please...will check bottles
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by PhilW
yes please
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:22 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by forest26
Yes please
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:22 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
Dates switched Thu to Tue.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:25 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Alex Bridgeman
Yes please.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:26 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by CPR 1
yes please
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:26 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by flash_uk
yup
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:27 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Alex Bridgeman
Justin says "yes please" but he's blocked from accessing TPF.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:27 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Will W.
I'm in.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:29 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Glenn E.
Yes, provisionally. It is difficult to predict my international travel availability this far in advance.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:29 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by rich_n
Yes, provisionally!
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:29 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Doggett
Ian Johns says yes please
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:31 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Doggett
George and Neil also are available and say yes please...
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:32 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
Full. What bottles of ’94 do people have available?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:47 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by winesecretary
I have Dow, Gould Campbell, Quinta de la Rosa, Smith Woodhouse, Taylor, Vesuvio, Warre
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:57 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by CPR 1
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:32 Thu 18 Mar 2021
Full. What bottles of ’94 do people have available?
Ramos Pinto - Quinta da Ervamoira, G, D, Erica Velha, Kopke
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:01 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Will W.
Dow's
Ramos Pinto
Burmester
Ferreira
Graham's
Romaneira
Piles of the Graham's, Burmester and Romaneira. The rest are single bottles, according to my cellar list.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:04 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
Justin sends that he has: Cálem, Dow, Graham, Noval, Sandeman, Tesco, Taylor.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:05 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by PhilW
RO94, Ni94 cask sample in half bottle; W/F/V/G currently unopened in offsite but potentially possible.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:18 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by PhilW
oh and QdlR94
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:52 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Glenn E.
Dow
Fonseca
Graham (750, magnum)
Ramos Pinto
Taylor (in magnum only)
Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Vesuvio
I may have others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:57 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by Glenn E.
Edited the above to add: Quinta do Noval
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:58 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by akzy
Yes please.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 23:01 Thu 18 Mar 2021
by hadge
yes please
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 00:18 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by Glenn E.
For clarity, my Ramos Pinto is a regular VP not a Quinta da Ervamoira SQVP. I believe that they produced both in 1994, which is a bit of an oddity.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 08:24 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by akzy
If I get promoted, I have Dow and Berry's.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 13:00 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by idj123
Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning. Please add me to the waiting list please. Like alot of people have plenty of 94s.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 13:27 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by PhilW
idj123 wrote: ↑13:00 Fri 19 Mar 2021Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.
It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 13:28 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by CPR 1
PhilW wrote: ↑13:27 Fri 19 Mar 2021
idj123 wrote: ↑13:00 Fri 19 Mar 2021Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.
It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!
Doggett wrote: ↑20:29 Thu 18 Mar 2021
Ian Johns says yes please
yes but you made the cut
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 16:50 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by idj123
CPR 1 wrote: ↑13:28 Fri 19 Mar 2021
PhilW wrote: ↑13:27 Fri 19 Mar 2021
idj123 wrote: ↑13:00 Fri 19 Mar 2021Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.
It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!
Doggett wrote: ↑20:29 Thu 18 Mar 2021
Ian Johns says yes please
yes but you made the cut
Indeed I did
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 16:55 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by idj123
And of those not listed at the start of the thread, I believe that I have Ck, Df and Sk.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 19:24 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
The
second post of this thread has been edited to explain the suggested maximum size, and which Ports are chosen. Comment welcomed.
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, N, Ps, QH, RP, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.
If the RPE is added, to accompany the RP, then which should be removed?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 20:54 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by winesecretary
I have never participated in a good Noval 94 (sample size small - 4 bottles over ten years - but all from different cases ). I would rather have a potentially rewarding port I have not had than another potentially disappointing Noval.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 22:19 Fri 19 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021Hence:
Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.
Done.
Also, I’d prefer Kopke over Passadouro. And might also want Cálem over something, that something perhaps being Cockburn. Others?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 07:48 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by nac
There's a 12bt case of the quite rare Noval 94 in the current BidForWine auction. Looks to be in excellent condition.
Any interest in a group purchase?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 08:34 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by idj123
I wouln't mind a couple of these Neil and so yes, although price dependent. What are we potentially loking at in terms of the latter?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 08:48 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by nac
Opening price is £800 dp inc vat. No buyer’s commission.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 09:15 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by idj123
nac wrote: ↑08:48 Sat 20 Mar 2021
Opening price is £800 dp inc vat. No buyer’s commission.
That's not bad although definitely caveat emptor with regards to this wine, as like George, I don't think that I have had a non flawed bottle of this wine although of course someone will now point out a tasting that I have attended to the contrary!
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 09:22 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by idj123
jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:19 Fri 19 Mar 2021
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021Hence:
Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.
Done.
Also, I’d prefer Kopke over Passadouro. And might also want Cálem over something, that something perhaps being Cockburn. Others?
I would agree with replacing the Ck as I think that this is one of most disappointing of the 94s. I also need to update my previous bottle availability ( he says sheepishly) as whilst I do have a bottle of the Sk, I now see that it is empty as I recall drinking it earlier in lockdowm (and it was in good place)!
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 10:43 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by winesecretary
Oddly enough, I see that the only note on the tasting notes list for N 94 is the bottle from the 2019 horizontal of 1994s. Neil would appear to be on the money in saying 'quite rare'.
I also support the removal of Ck from the list for this tasting.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 11:13 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021• The purported Skeffington has already been drunk (
!), and has been replaced with Kopke.
• General agreement to remove pre-Symington Cockburn, it being replaced with Cálem.
Updated selection:
Cá, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, K, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.
Comment? Agreement? Objections?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 11:16 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
winesecretary wrote: ↑10:43 Sat 20 Mar 2021Neil would appear to be on the money in saying 'quite rare'.
Only 800 dozen were made — Axa had bought Noval in late 1993, hadn’t had time to do the many needed works, so decided to raise quality by aggressive selection.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 19:22 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by Alex Bridgeman
Not already offered by others, I have the following:
- Martinez
- Paxton & Whitfield own label
I'd like to see the Martinez included, perhaps instead of the Passadouro?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 21:11 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by PhilW
My thoughts:
- Agree with NN exclusion, given youth/cost combination.
- Very much agree to prioritise the RP-RPE for comparison
- I would also prioritise Ni-Ps to have the Passadouro alongside the Niepoort for comparison
- (consequentially disagreeing with JDAW's preference of K > Ps due to point above)
- I would include the Mz now offered from AHB
- Since that would have me including Ps and Mz, if we want the same number of wines per current proposed selection, I would suggest dropping Df and K (and/or GC/SW)
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 22:34 Sat 20 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, which would allow twenty-one glasses?
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021Or twenty-one on A2 trimmed to be 1″ = 25.4mm taller than A4, and 86.0mm ≈ 3.39″ less wide than 3×A4. (Radius ≈ 122.841pt ≈ 1.71″ ≈ 43.34mm.)
(The attempt at nineteen was never going to last. I knew it; you knew it.)
(If Mike agrees, will add Fr and Mz.)
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 08:13 Sun 21 Mar 2021
by nac
jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:34 Sat 20 Mar 2021
Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, ...
If Mike can’t, I can.
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 10:55 Sun 21 Mar 2021
by jdaw1
nac wrote: ↑08:13 Sun 21 Mar 2021jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:34 Sat 20 Mar 2021Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, ...
If Mike can’t, I can.
Thank you.
jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:21 Thu 18 Mar 2021Original plan was nineteen; later
upgraded to
twenty-one.
…
• Team seemed keen on Mz; and I on Fr.
Updated selection:
Cá, Cr, Df, D, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.
Comment? Agreement? Objections?
Re: 1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021
Posted: 18:28 Sun 21 Mar 2021
by hadge
nac wrote: ↑07:48 Sat 20 Mar 2021
There's a 12bt case of the quite rare Noval 94 in the current BidForWine auction. Looks to be in excellent condition.
Any interest in a group purchase?
i would be keen on a few.