22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

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jrsmithuk
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22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by jrsmithuk »

We were given a bottle of late bottled vintage port branded with the SAS logo and 22nd Special air force Regiment on and was wondering if it is worth selling as we won't drink it. Produce of Portugal. It doesn't appear to have a date on it but we were given this over 11 years ago by an SAS officer.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Are you able to post a picture or two of the bottle, the capsule and the label?

Probably it's not something which will have a great deal of value. If it was Late Bottled Vintage Port (LBV) there would be the year of the vintage featuring prominently on the label - what makes you sure this is Late Bottled Vintage? If it is LBV, it might be worth around £10. If it isn't LBV it is likely to be Vintage Character or Reserve Ruby (neither of which would have a Vintage Year printed on them) and would be worth about half the value of the LBV.

If you're not likely to drink them but know someone who does appreciate their Port, it sounds like this would make a lovely gift for them. Having sat in your cupboard for 11 years it is likely to be a delicious, mellow drink.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by flash_uk »

The SAS port is usually a Symington tawny.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by Doggett »

flash_uk wrote: 16:26 Sat 21 Aug 2021 The SAS port is usually a Symington tawny.
There are also Taylor’s LBVs with the SAS dagger and logo etched on them.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by jrsmithuk »

Sorry for the delay, here are the photos of the bottle. It does not show a date, or at least not that I can see but states LBV
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Thanks for the pictures, they help considerably.

Is there a label on the back of the bottle? Sometimes date details are included on the back label? Or perhaps the capsule is stamped with a date?
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by PhilW »

The label indicates that this is a Churchill LBV (Churchill Graham Lda produce the Churchill brand) but main label has no obvious indication of year, so unless there is a back label or the tag provides an indication, then the year will be unknown until you pull the cork.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by jrsmithuk »

I have searched the bottle and haven't managed to find it. Like I said at the very least it's 12 years old.

There is no date on the label. Would this have any value do you know?

Thanks in advance for any advice
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by jdaw1 »

LBV is typically released five to seven years after the harvest, so the vintage could be 2000–’05.
jrsmithuk wrote: 15:45 Thu 26 Aug 2021Would this have any value do you know?
The Port is worth something of the order of a tenner. But the bottle might, and might not, be of interest to those who collect military ephemera — I don’t know. If it is of value to such a collector, it is likely to be of more value if unopened.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by PhilW »

It would be reasonable to assume this might be Churchill LBV 2005(ish). For value purposes, it is worth noting that this wine is unfiltered (so will mature over time) and is currently available retail at £25/bottle, so unlikely to sell for much to people here. That said, I note that similar bottles have sold at much higher prices at a charity auction a few years ago, but that may have been either someone who wanted the label for a gift, or purely for charitable purposes. If you want to maximise what you receive for it, I would suggest selling it via ebay nearer to xmas, and hoping someone fancies the label on the bottle as a xmas gift - plan to get £10 for it (what it's worth) but hope for more.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by Andy Velebil »

It would have been bottled around 10-14 years ago. Interesting it doesn't have a year on the front label.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by nac »

jrsmithuk wrote: 11:27 Fri 20 Aug 2021 We were given a bottle of late bottled vintage port branded with the SAS logo and 22nd Special air force Regiment on and was wondering if it is worth selling as we won't drink it. Produce of Portugal. It doesn't appear to have a date on it but we were given this over 11 years ago by an SAS officer.
Have emailed you.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by H_Sterling »

I'm afraid I've bought the bottle this morning. Will make a nice present (novelty / militaria interest) for someone I know! :) Hopefully we'll share the Port itself..! :990000:
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uncle tom
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by uncle tom »

There are quite a lot of these military special bottlings, both for regiments and warships. They are held in reverence by those who served, but they do not attract a significant premium at wine auctions.

It might attract some interest in a sale of regimental effects however.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by JacobH »

I sometimes wonder what goes into these bottlings. For example, was this just a re-labelled Churchill LBV; a special buyer’s-own-brand blend LBV that anyone who wants to put their own labels on would get; or a bespoke 22nd Regiment SAS blend? I presume the final category is unlikely, although I imagine that some purchasers of this type of Port are shifting quite large quantities (e.g. some of the traditional regiments; the big Oxbridge Colleges; and the West End Clubs) and so could probably have a one produced if they wanted one.

My impression from what see advertised is that a huge proportion of the commemorative Port market is dominated by Quinta and Vineyard Bottlers which is Taylor Fladgate Partnership company. Does anyone know how they operate? Do you just choose from a short range and add your label, or can it be more custom?
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by PhilW »

I would suspect simple re-label of current issue LBV on an on-request basis. Most bottles seem to be a standard (relatively plain) bottle with bespoke label; occasionally also a bespoke capsule (like the colheita released in 1995 with label and capsule in the Porto football team strip to celebrate their victories). I did see one of the SAS bottles which had a typical SAS bespoke label, but which was affixed over a Taylor LBV bottle with all the usual branding on the bottle underneath - as if already bottled/labelled and the bespoke label on top - which tends me further towards the standard-LBV view also. I'm sure something more esoteric (own blend etc) could be done along the lines of the BOB brands, but perhaps only if the quantities merited the time investment, which I doubt in this case.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by slateshalehead »

JacobH wrote: 11:29 Mon 13 Sep 2021 I presume the final category is unlikely, although I imagine that some purchasers of this type of Port are shifting quite large quantities (e.g. some of the traditional regiments; the big Oxbridge Colleges; and the West End Clubs) and so could probably have a one produced if they wanted one.
I'm not even sure if the Oxbridge Colleges are moving enough port to have bespoke blending clout anymore; I presume most of the college wines anymore come from one of the companies that supply the same juice to all institutions and just change the label. A regimental port made today might be the same thing as a college wine from the same period.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by uncle tom »

I'm not even sure if the Oxbridge Colleges are moving enough port to have bespoke blending clout anymore; I presume most of the college wines anymore come from one of the companies that supply the same juice to all institutions and just change the label. A regimental port made today might be the same thing as a college wine from the same period.
Anecdotally, I've been told that the Oxbridge college cellars of port are a pale shadow of their former glory, with old wines drunk away and not replaced. Students also, seem to be getting worryingly abstemious these days..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by JacobH »

I’ve heard about students drinking less these days, to the extent that it has had a negative impact on various bits of the University system that were reliant on the profits of bars etc. I think some students’ unions have had a particularly hard time.

The same also goes for the military. I have also read that a lot of the hard drinking culture is going amongst younger servicemen / women. Not sure if that is having a significant impact on how messes are able to run, though.

I assumed that some of the big colleges which do formal dining several times a week could be dishing out quite a lot of Port. If you are serving 100 undergraduates just one 75ml glass of Port for, say, 3 formal dinners a week you’d need a couple of pipes of Port a year. But this is real back-of-the-envelope stuff! I have no idea what it is like in reality!

I wonder if the grand old cellars are going, generally? I certainly see fewer restaurant wine lists these days, even in well-established West End places which look like they are buying to age as opposed to buying to sell immediately.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by uncle tom »

I wonder if the grand old cellars are going, generally?
Physically, not - I've never been invited down to inspect, but the cellars at Trinity, Cambridge, are said to be immense in terms of floorspace..
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

JacobH wrote: 20:18 Mon 13 Sep 2021I assumed that some of the big colleges which do formal dining several times a week could be dishing out quite a lot of Port. If you are serving 100 undergraduates just one 75ml glass of Port for, say, 3 formal dinners a week you’d need a couple of pipes of Port a year. But this is real back-of-the-envelope stuff! I have no idea what it is like in reality!
I had some experience of formals at Univ when I was occasionally invited to attend dinners in the years 2012-15. The top table would have a decanter of Port served, which I believed to have been vintage, but it was often left unfinished. Students (and their guests) who chose to attend were offered a glass of red or white wine poured from a jug. Students were not offered more than one glass of wine and nothing in addition to the wine - no Port, no Sherry, no Madeira. I suspect the small Univ cellar was managed solely for the benefit of the master and fellows.
JacobH wrote:I wonder if the grand old cellars are going, generally? I certainly see fewer restaurant wine lists these days, even in well-established West End places which look like they are buying to age as opposed to buying to sell immediately.
I believe they are. I've spoken to a fair number of large and small restaurateurs and hoteliers and most are running their cellars down. There are a handful of exceptions where either the owner is passionate about their wine / Port or where the owners are aware that they can offer wines bought en primeur and cellared under the supervision of the management as a USP but the vast majority of owners aren't able or prepared to tie up the capital required. Instead they go on to the auction market and buy mature wines in good condition (often from bonded storage) and put them straight onto their wine list. I have been the beneficiary of this a few times, a good example being when I last visited the Beetle & Wedge and discovered Graham Malvedos 1968 on the wine list for a very reasonable sum.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by JacobH »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 13:36 Tue 14 Sep 2021I had some experience of formals at Univ when I was occasionally invited to attend dinners in the years 2012-15. The top table would have a decanter of Port served, which I believed to have been vintage, but it was often left unfinished. Students (and their guests) who chose to attend were offered a glass of red or white wine poured from a jug. Students were not offered more than one glass of wine and nothing in addition to the wine - no Port, no Sherry, no Madeira. I suspect the small Univ cellar was managed solely for the benefit of the master and fellows.
That really ties in with what Tom said about a decline in alcohol consumption. When I was at University in the mid-2000s, the limit was a bottle of wine per student which could either be bought from the bar beforehand or there was a nominal corkage fee which encouraged some people to seek out more interesting things from a wine merchant. On any special occasions when wine was provided by the College, there would also be Port, too. And, as you say, the fellows would usually supply themselves with something better which would inevitably not get drunk. At least by them, that is... I think some of the wealthier colleges would also offer a choice of Madeira or a pudding wine, too.

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 13:36 Tue 14 Sep 2021I believe they are. I've spoken to a fair number of large and small restaurateurs and hoteliers and most are running their cellars down. There are a handful of exceptions where either the owner is passionate about their wine / Port or where the owners are aware that they can offer wines bought en primeur and cellared under the supervision of the management as a USP but the vast majority of owners aren't able or prepared to tie up the capital required. Instead they go on to the auction market and buy mature wines in good condition (often from bonded storage) and put them straight onto their wine list. I have been the beneficiary of this a few times, a good example being when I last visited the Beetle & Wedge and discovered Graham Malvedos 1968 on the wine list for a very reasonable sum.
I think that’s right. I am not sure if it is a cause / effect but I think people are also drinking wines much younger which militates against the need for a huge reserve to age. It’s pretty rare for me to see a bottle of table wine that is more than about 6 years old on a list that isn’t in the premium £100+ range.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by slateshalehead »

JacobH wrote: 14:24 Tue 14 Sep 2021
Alex Bridgeman wrote: 13:36 Tue 14 Sep 2021I had some experience of formals at Univ when I was occasionally invited to attend dinners in the years 2012-15. The top table would have a decanter of Port served, which I believed to have been vintage, but it was often left unfinished. Students (and their guests) who chose to attend were offered a glass of red or white wine poured from a jug. Students were not offered more than one glass of wine and nothing in addition to the wine - no Port, no Sherry, no Madeira. I suspect the small Univ cellar was managed solely for the benefit of the master and fellows.
That really ties in with what Tom said about a decline in alcohol consumption. When I was at University in the mid-2000s, the limit was a bottle of wine per student which could either be bought from the bar beforehand or there was a nominal corkage fee which encouraged some people to seek out more interesting things from a wine merchant. On any special occasions when wine was provided by the College, there would also be Port, too. And, as you say, the fellows would usually supply themselves with something better which would inevitably not get drunk. At least by them, that is... I think some of the wealthier colleges would also offer a choice of Madeira or a pudding wine, too.
Echoing from my experience at Christ Church, 2017-2018. Formal dinners were held weekly but at an increased price above the normal meal price, and wine was rarely included except for special occasions (Christmas, Finalists Dinner, etc.). Students are able to purchase wine from the buttery/bar but most will just grab a bottle of the college-labeled table wines. The full cellar list is not always clearly available, and often you need to request the list in advance and then request the bottle in advance of the dinner. Port was available at the High Table and during SCR events (Christ Church's SCR also had madeira available in their Common Room), but as far as a drink during dinner, port was only seen by students during Christmas dessert.

As an aside, my first introduction to port was actually in the library at Mansfield. Around 2:30am during revisions and essay writing a few friends would declare "Port O'Clock", crack open a bottle, and pass it around. That bottle more likely came from Tesco than the college cellar... but that might have reflected more on Mansfield's more limited cellar and focus on more New World wines. Either way, port certainly made writing more pleasant!
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by JacobH »

I was invited by a friend to a Guest Night at Gray’s Inn earlier in the week. I was really surprised to find that they no longer serve Port in the traditional way (one decanter per “mess” of four people) but have a waiter pour each person a single glass from a bottle. I guess it means they are not wasting very much, but it seemed rather sad, especially since they were encouraging everyone to linger in their hall after dinner to sing, play the piano etc.
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Re: 22nd Regiment SAS port For sale

Post by H_Sterling »

It's been opened! The LBV has transformed to something more akin to a Colheita. Very nice! The age must be mid 2000s I reckon.
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