Post-2000s ports for the future

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Jamiesan12o
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Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Jamiesan12o »

Hi all - long time lurker around these parts but first time poster.

Long story short, I'm looking to purchase some VP for the medium/long term. I've been very lucky to drink a fair amount of VP both young-ish and relative old (60s) and would describe myself as a uninformed enthusiast.

I've recently decided to take a bit of a plunge and start to put together the beginnings of a port cellar. I'm in my 20s now and can't see myself drinking a tonne of port until later in life. Accordingly I'm looking to purchase anything from ~2000 onwards, before which the prices start to rise, for drinking mainly from 20 years time and for the rest of my life.

Online tasting notes, both in this forum and beyond have been very helpful - and I've picked up a few bargains in the last year or so (well - I think they are!): 12x 2000 Grahams, 12x 2011 Taylors for under £35/750ml in bond, and some 2003 Noval for a bit more.

My question is: Online tasting notes tend to (understandably!) favour those VPs that are drinking well/approachably *now*. Whilst I am definitely in the market for some of those, I'm also in the market for those that may be totally closed down now and only opening up in 40+++ years' time, as I'm lucky enough to have age on my side.

I'm conscious that I've probably jinxed it and will be hit by a bus tomorrow, but I'd be grateful for any of your recommendations of what you'd buy in my position, and particularly your thoughts on any VPs from ~2000 onwards (or earlier, if affordable!) that are the most likely to have the longest of long lives.

Thank you!
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rich_n
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by rich_n »

Welcome! As a fellow uninformed enthusiast who is also young enough to hopefully take advantage of ports that have been released this side of the millennium I've been focused on a mix of VP and SQVP (which will hopefully provide joy sooner). You'll probably already be aware of the hype surrounding 2011, which is reflected in the prices for the major houses in that year, but with some research there are extensive notes from many experts or informed enthusiasts that can point you to "lesser" ports (or less storied port producers) where the quality seems to be very high and comparable to the top houses in other years. I was fortunate to stumble into buying some half cases of 2011 as that was the first year I purchased anything en primeur.

Other options are to look at some of the less highly celebrated years in the last decade - '15 and '18 were overshadowed by the years in between but if '16 and/or '17 had been duds then either of those could have been more widely declared. Either way, it's worth finding SQVPs from those years or smaller houses like Quevedo who declared both and I believe have produced very drinkable ports.

I have other thoughts but that's probably enough for now.
akzy
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by akzy »

Hi. I'm in a similar boat to both you and Rich so a few thoughts I've had on acquiring VP.

Recent releases of VP are expensive. Regularly looking at £300-400 IB for half cases (i.e. 6x 750ml bottles).
You have already correctly noted that top tier VP around 97-07 is much cheaper, often going for £200-300 IB and even better if you get the right auctions and sales.
There are some excellent VPs from 1985-94 and about the same price as new VP which still have a long time in their drinking window (Fonseca, Taylors and Grahams to name a few). If you keep your eyes open, this will extend back to some good vintages such as 77.

I think your strategy of going for 2000s is a solid one. Port from this time is more likely to last due to improved methodogy of production. I would also emphasise that variety is great. Rich and I are big fans of young fruit bombs - others less so. As a final note, there are some truly excellent unfiltered late bottle vintages (LBVs) or crusted ports that are comparitive bargains and can happily age 20 years.
Glenn E.
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Glenn E. »

akzy wrote: 17:42 Tue 01 Mar 2022 Hi. I'm in a similar boat to both you and Rich so a few thoughts I've had on acquiring VP.

Recent releases of VP are expensive. Regularly looking at £300-400 IB for half cases (i.e. 6x 750ml bottles).
You have already correctly noted that top tier VP around 97-07 is much cheaper, often going for £200-300 IB and even better if you get the right auctions and sales.

There are some excellent VPs from 1985-94 and about the same price as new VP which still have a long time in their drinking window (Fonseca, Taylors and Grahams to name a few). If you keep your eyes open, this will extend back to some good vintages such as 77.
This is excellent advice. While it does make sense to concentrate on Ports from 2000 or later, don't pass on Ports from 1980 onward. There are Ports from the 80s and 90s that could out-live even you, and you will likely never be able to acquire them again for the prices we're seeing now. Ports from the 1980s are already starting to rise in price... as little as 3-5 years ago one could purchase top-tier VPs from that era for less than new releases. Imagine, in 20-25 years time, being able to pop into your cellar to grab a ~60 year old 1985 Fonseca to open with friends.

One thing specifically that I will recommend: start buying Quinta do Vesuvio, and if you can go all the way back to their modern beginning. Quinta do Vesuvio released their first VP in 1989 (under modern management... very old bottles labeled Vezuvio with a 'z' are from the same property but much different circumstances) and they release a VP in all but the worst years. Which means that if you start now, you can relatively easily collect a full vertical of their Port and maintain it into the future for consumption with your Port buddies later in life. And as a bonus, Quinta do Vesuvio VPs are most excellent so well worth collecting.
Glenn Elliott
Mike J. W.
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Mike J. W. »

Lots of really good advice on here so far. I'll try not to muck it up. The 80's are definitely good and relatively cheap. I'd go with anythng Graham's in the 80's either the regular VP or the Malvedos. '80 Dow is a killer Port and can be found for under US $100 at auction. A real sleeper IMO are the '83 & '85 Offley Boa Vista and those can be found very cheap. For 1994, besides the Taylor's & Fonseca which are both pricey, but very good, I'd recommend Graham's, Smith Woodhouse or Warre.

The 2000 Graham's is good, but I think the 2007 version is spectacular. Buy that by the boatload if you see a good price. The 2007 & 2011 Warre's and Sandeman are very good as well.

I'm very jealous of the price you bought the 2011 Taylor;s at. The 2011 Fonseca and Graham's are very good as well. 2017 was also a very good year for VP (2015 & 2016 were good as well, but overall not as good as 2017). Niepoort is excellent. After that, the usual suspects are good, but also keep an eye out for the 2017 Sandeman Quinta Do Seixo. It's inexpensive, but good. I've picked it up for around U.S. $65

If you're unsure of some of these, see if you can find half bottles and test them out before you go all in on them.
Jamiesan12o
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Jamiesan12o »

Glenn E. wrote: 19:52 Tue 01 Mar 2022
akzy wrote: 17:42 Tue 01 Mar 2022 Hi. I'm in a similar boat to both you and Rich so a few thoughts I've had on acquiring VP.

Recent releases of VP are expensive. Regularly looking at £300-400 IB for half cases (i.e. 6x 750ml bottles).
You have already correctly noted that top tier VP around 97-07 is much cheaper, often going for £200-300 IB and even better if you get the right auctions and sales.

There are some excellent VPs from 1985-94 and about the same price as new VP which still have a long time in their drinking window (Fonseca, Taylors and Grahams to name a few). If you keep your eyes open, this will extend back to some good vintages such as 77.
This is excellent advice. While it does make sense to concentrate on Ports from 2000 or later, don't pass on Ports from 1980 onward. There are Ports from the 80s and 90s that could out-live even you, and you will likely never be able to acquire them again for the prices we're seeing now. Ports from the 1980s are already starting to rise in price... as little as 3-5 years ago one could purchase top-tier VPs from that era for less than new releases. Imagine, in 20-25 years time, being able to pop into your cellar to grab a ~60 year old 1985 Fonseca to open with friends.

One thing specifically that I will recommend: start buying Quinta do Vesuvio, and if you can go all the way back to their modern beginning. Quinta do Vesuvio released their first VP in 1989 (under modern management... very old bottles labeled Vezuvio with a 'z' are from the same property but much different circumstances) and they release a VP in all but the worst years. Which means that if you start now, you can relatively easily collect a full vertical of their Port and maintain it into the future for consumption with your Port buddies later in life. And as a bonus, Quinta do Vesuvio VPs are most excellent so well worth collecting.
Thank you (both!), and Rich earlier. I will look into the Vesuvio (ashamed to admit that I hadn't even heard of it until recently!). I assume that the same is true of Noval (at least, in since Seely/AXA took charge?) who seem to have also settled into an annual release pattern (albeit for close to double the price!)?.

The '85 Fonseca does seem to get namechecked a lot round these parts - and it seems particularly reasonable at ~£55 IB so I will almost certainly take all of your advice on that.
Last edited by Jamiesan12o on 21:53 Tue 01 Mar 2022, edited 3 times in total.
Jamiesan12o
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Jamiesan12o »

Mike J. W. wrote: 21:36 Tue 01 Mar 2022 Lots of really good advice on here so far. I'll try not to muck it up. The 80's are definitely good and relatively cheap. I'd go with anythng Graham's in the 80's either the regular VP or the Malvedos. '80 Dow is a killer Port and can be found for under US $100 at auction. A real sleeper IMO are the '83 & '85 Offley Boa Vista and those can be found very cheap. For 1994, besides the Taylor's & Fonseca which are both pricey, but very good, I'd recommend Graham's, Smith Woodhouse or Warre.

The 2000 Graham's is good, but I think the 2007 version is spectacular. Buy that by the boatload if you see a good price. The 2007 & 2011 Warre's and Sandeman are very good as well.

I'm very jealous of the price you bought the 2011 Taylor;s at. The 2011 Fonseca and Graham's are very good as well. 2017 was also a very good year for VP (2015 & 2016 were good as well, but overall not as good as 2017). Niepoort is excellent. After that, the usual suspects are good, but also keep an eye out for the 2017 Sandeman Quinta Do Seixo. It's inexpensive, but good. I've picked it up for around U.S. $65

If you're unsure of some of these, see if you can find half bottles and test them out before you go all in on them.
Much appreciated Mike - Will do, particularly re: the '07 Grahams.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Hi Jamie,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking a question which can generate all sorts of debate around the answers we offer.

The advice you’ve had so far is great advice. As and when you find something which catches your eye, feel free to ask for opinions on price or quality. Don’t shy away from buying Port from the ‘70s and ‘80s as this gives good drinking today while you wait for your 2019 vintage Ports to be ready.

Zak mentioned unfiltered LBVs. I want to repeat his advice. There are some stunning LBVs around these days which I believe are probably as good in quality terms as VP was in the ‘80s. Sandeman and Warre Bottle Matured (both available from Waitrose as well as other places) are two fabulous examples. Very occasionally we still open bottles of the Warre LBV from the 1980s and they are still delicious. (But don’t confuse the Warre bottle matured with the Warre filtered LBV - they make both. Waitrose sell only the bottle matured version.). The LBVs are a great way to buy top quality, early drinking (almost) Vintage Port for a bargain price.

Oh yes. And make sure your storage space is 4-5 times bigger than you think you’ll need!

Let us know how you get on. Please do post in the Latest Buy thread.

Have fun

Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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jdaw1
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by jdaw1 »

Also, buy one. If you see something available at an affordable price, buy one and taste it promptly. If it’s awful, disaster avoided. If it’s fantastic, go buy the rest (and if there are some left in the shop, tell us).
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Vesuvio 1998 is delicious is starting to drink very nicely.

You might open one and then find over the course of the next few months that your case of six has become mysteriously empty. Lovely mature Port seems to do this rather too often.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Jamiesan12o
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Jamiesan12o »

Thank you Alex (and for your reply above, too)
Glenn E.
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Re: Post-2000s ports for the future

Post by Glenn E. »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 08:55 Sun 06 Mar 2022 Oh yes. And make sure your storage space is 4-5 times bigger than you think you’ll need!
I fear even this advice may be insufficient. Allow me to explain.

When I first started drinking Port I thought that I should probably purchase a wine refrigerator so that I could have a supply on hand. I found a perfect little fridge that claimed to hold 56 bottles and thought, "that should be plenty!"

Alas, in a portent of things to come, the perfect little fridge could not under any circumstances hold 56 bottles, but rather 40. But that would still probably be fine, right?

Wrong. Oh heavens, wrong.

I still have that perfect little wine fridge, and it still holds 40 bottles. Including some that were put in it the day it arrived!

But I now also own 3 full-size refrigerators, each of which allegedly holds 283 bottles but more realistically holds 180-200, and I have around 20 cases of Port sitting in the office that holds the 3 refrigerators, and which also overflow into the living room. I am currently looking to purchase a 10-wide, 10-high, 2-deep wine rack/table to go in the dining room so that the ... uh, overflow ... in there can at least be stored in a proper piece of furniture instead of cardboard boxes. And I'll need another in the office. And that will all just get me back to ground zero.

So. Ahem. 4-5 times. That seems optimistic.
Glenn Elliott
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