2020 Declarations

Anything to do with Port.
forest26
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by forest26 »

Add 2020 Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira
forest26
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by forest26 »

"Ramos Pinto is delighted to announce the release of the 2020 Quinta de Ervamoira Vintage Port. Production was extremely limited with only 9,200 bottles produced." Press Release
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by PCM »

forest26 wrote: 16:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022 The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
Portugal Vineyards in Portugal offers Dow's Quinta do Bomfim 2020 for €72.66
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by PCM »

PCM wrote: 13:25 Thu 14 Jul 2022
forest26 wrote: 16:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022 The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
Portugal Vineyards in Portugal offers Dow's Quinta do Bomfim 2020 for €72.66
In addition to the above: Garrafeira Nacional now offers Dow's Quinta do Bomfim VP '20 for €44.00 until 16-8-2022 (instead of normal price of €55.00).
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uncle tom
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Garrafeira Nacional now offers Dow's Quinta do Bomfim VP '20 for €44.00
Every time you feel the release price is getting somewhere close to the aftermarket price, the release price goes into another orbit.

I have a really bad feeling about this. It's necessary for VP to be both seen and drunk by the many, and not just the few. Many years ago the sherry market seemed to destroy their premium sector - I'm not an expert on the detail - and now they are left with a mass low profit market and precious little presence - or interest - when it comes to premium product.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if the port producers would just end their fixation with the idea of levelling up to classed growth claret, and simply price to their own market, they could triple the volume of VP - sell it for half the current price - and, above all, make more money..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

uncle tom wrote: 23:40 Wed 12 Oct 2022
Garrafeira Nacional now offers Dow's Quinta do Bomfim VP '20 for €44.00
Every time you feel the release price is getting somewhere close to the aftermarket price, the release price goes into another orbit.
I'm confused. Isn't €44 significantly lower than release prices from a decade ago? And isn't that what you've been trying to encourage?

Release prices for top-tier VP in the US have been in the $80 to $100 range since at least the 2011 vintage, and I think all the way back to 2007. SQVPs and second-tier labels have been $60 to $80 during that same time. Which, combined with my age, is why I don't really buy a lot of new releases. Why pay $80 to $100 for a new release that then needs to be aged for 30 or more years when I can get 30-year old already-aged VP for the same price from reputable sellers?

I don't think that $80 to $100 is too high for Port's top tier. But I do feel like there should be something between VP and LBV on a regular basis, because the jump from a $30 to $40 LBV to a VP is more than double. (And then more than double again to super cuvees like Vargellas Vinha Velha and The Stone Terraces.)
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uncle tom
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Isn't €44 significantly lower than release prices from a decade ago? And isn't that what you've been trying to encourage?
For an SQ VP? I don't know about the US market, but a decade ago Dow Bomfim '99 cost me £19/bottle - less than $30/US at the exchange rate then.

Look at the release prices of the big names - with tax, Sandeman 2018 comes in at over £100/bottle - more than I paid at auction a couple of years ago for the Sandeman 1958..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

The prices for the recent Bomfin releases have surprised me because I also remember it being quite a cheap SQVP. There used to be a big jump in price between it and the Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira. I may be misremembering this, but I'm pretty sure in the late 2000s the Bomfin was consistently cheaper than the two Taylor SQVPs and the SdR was quite a bit more expensive. I think both of them are now more expensive than the Vargellas.

I'm not sure if this is a general feature of all the Symington SQVPs or just the Bomfin. The TFP SQVPs seem only to have risen quite modestly in prices. The current release Vargellas is about £31 retail from Majestic (big UK wine merchant chain)- I think I used to pay about £25-£27 for it from them 15 years ago.
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Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

uncle tom wrote: 09:00 Thu 13 Oct 2022
Isn't €44 significantly lower than release prices from a decade ago? And isn't that what you've been trying to encourage?
For an SQ VP? I don't know about the US market, but a decade ago Dow Bomfim '99 cost me £19/bottle - less than $30/US at the exchange rate then.

Look at the release prices of the big names - with tax, Sandeman 2018 comes in at over £100/bottle - more than I paid at auction a couple of years ago for the Sandeman 1958..
Prices have never been that low in the US, so perhaps it's a market (and current exchange rate) difference that's making me think €44 is pretty low.

Today, €44 is $44. (I sent a wire earlier this morning where 1 EUR = 0.9995 USD.) SQVPs have had pretty steady release prices of about $60 for a decade or more in the US, so €44 seems cheap to me.
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MigSU
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

I just checked the website of Continente, a large supermarket chain in Portugal, and I can buy Dow's Bomfim for €30 and Croft Roeda for €40. The years are unclear.
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

MigSU wrote:I just checked the website of Continente, a large supermarket chain in Portugal, and I can buy Dow's Bomfim for €30 and Croft Roeda for €40. The years are unclear.
None of these prices make any sense to me! In the UK Roeda is consistently the cheapest SQVP so I am surprised it is quite a bit more expensive than the Bomfim. When searching for it, the first result that comes up is the the 2004 for £22 (which I think is now equivalent to about €8 ;-) ).

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Lucas S
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Lucas S »

Glenn E. wrote: 05:33 Thu 13 Oct 2022 Release prices for top-tier VP in the US have been in the $80 to $100 range since at least the 2011 vintage, and I think all the way back to 2007. SQVPs and second-tier labels have been $60 to $80 during that same time.
That's interesting. Not many '11 lots hitting the auction yet, but I'm almost finished compiling prices from the past couple years at Zachy's and here's what hammered. Prices are per bottle and include BP, but not shipping of course.

'11 Churchill 74.50
'11 Cockburn 43.50
'11 Dow 99-134
'11 Fonseca 70.50
'11 Graham 51.50
'11 Niepoort 49.67
'11 Vesuvio Capela 99.69
'11 Vale Meao 49.67
'11 Noval Nacional 864.50
'11 Stone Terraces 267.67

The Dow had the most lots sold at four but being Wine of Year its naturally retaining a premium price.

Overall, I am assuming nearly all of these are below the release price?
MigSU
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

Is that in dollars, sterling, or euros?

Oops, never mind, checked your profile and saw you're based in the USA, so I'll assume dollars.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Lucas S »

If it was Euros it'd be even cheaper!

I do hope the new rates start making a difference in the retail prices here, even if there is some lag.

I particular, I noticed you can buy regular unaged white ports for only ~7 EUR and LBVs for 11-15 EUR in Portugal but here it's $14+ and ~$20-25, respectively.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Strictly from memory, which isn't as good as it used to be, the MSRP for 2011 VPs was roughly $100 per bottle. Nacional might have been $700? Stone Terraces was $225 for sure... Capela might have been $150?

US prices. Pretty sure everything was less expensive in the UK. Stone Terraces was 150 GBP as I recall... might have been 125, but even at that time 150 GBP wasn't $225.

So yeah, those prices have mostly all fallen since release. I'd buy GST11 for $267 if I saw it!
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Doggett »

GST 2011 seems to be at £600+ through merchants that have stock in the UK, which is obviously above the going auction rate but significantly above $267
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Lucas S »

For what's it worth, that GST lot was an Oct 13, 2019 hammer for 6 bottles for $1606 (BP included). Original Estimate then, $750 - $1,100.
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Are the prices you are quoting in the states generally inclusive of taxes? If so, I was wondering how much roughly they are? In the UK retail prices will include c.£3 for duty per bottle (which obviously impacts cheaper Ports more than VP) and then 20% on the whole amount.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Lucas S »

In the US, sales taxes are virtually never included in a given price, so you should always tack on an extra 6% or so.

In this case, it's NY state, my recent invoice from them added 8.3% to the final price with BP (this tax varies a bit by county, but is around 8% for NY state).

For the sake of preserving the thread, if you have more auction price questions or thoughts, let's move the discussion here: https://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopf ... hp?t=44522
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Thank you. The very little tax that you pay compared to what is charged in the UK makes the difference in price even more stark, especially when considering cheaper Ports!
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Doggett
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Doggett »

Declarations from Vallegre:-

Quinta Valle Longo
Quinta Vista Alegre

“The name Vallegre is the result of the combination of the names of its two most important Estates - Valle Longo and Vista Alegre - both located in the sub-region of Cima Corgo and where the two most prestigious brands come from.


Valle Longo has a very deep violet color. Full-bodied and balanced, with firm but delicate tannins. Extremely elegant. Sweet aroma, with ripe fruit and light floral and mineral notes. Persistent aftertaste.

Vista Alegre, on the other hand, has a deep purple color. Very elegant, fruity and complex nose, with an aroma of ripe black fruits, jam and black pepper. Round, in the mouth it reveals all its aromas of black fruits, such as blackberry and blueberry.”
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uncle tom
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Can't be long before we'll need a 2021 thread started.

After a rush of declarations in the middle of the last decade, we've now had a rather long wait for a classic vintage. The early indications on both '21 and '22 suggest that both years worked well for some producers, but not all - so are we going to see '91/'92 revisited, or will there be fingers crossed for '23 coming up trumps?
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Perhaps a kind moderator could create a 2021 thread so we can all wildly speculate before being proven wrong when the declarations start coming in?
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

JacobH wrote: 10:30 Mon 13 Mar 2023 Perhaps a kind moderator could create a 2021 thread so we can all wildly speculate before being proven wrong when the declarations start coming in?
Pay attention Jacob! There is already one going.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 22:05 Sat 08 Apr 2023
JacobH wrote: 10:30 Mon 13 Mar 2023 Perhaps a kind moderator could create a 2021 thread so we can all wildly speculate before being proven wrong when the declarations start coming in?
Pay attention Jacob! There is already one going.
I am pleased to see :tpf: has broken free of the linear progression of time ;-)
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