ThePortForum.com

Posted: **08:39 Mon 09 May 2022**

While waiting for PCM's permission to edit the thread he started here on 2020 declarations, I thought I would create a thread similar in structure to those of previous years to capture and record the Vintage Ports we hear being declared from the 2020 vintage and to include links to other years.

Amphitheatrum from Quinta da Gaivosa (Alves de Sousa)
Bioma Vinhas Velhas from Niepoort
Churchill's (link to FB announcement)
Churchill's Quinta da Gricha (link to FB announcement)
Menin Douro Estates
Pintas from Wine & Soul
Portal
Portal Quinta dos Muros
Quevedo
Quinta da Corte (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)
Quinta da Romaneira
Quinta de Ervamoira from Ramos Pinto (9,200 bottles)
Quinta de Ventozelo (Silver medal winner in the 2023 DWWA)
Quinta do Cume (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)

Quinta do Noval

Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Noval Nacional

Quinta do Pego (Silver medal winner in the 2023 DWWA)
Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo (125 cases)
Sequeirinha from Golddrink Family Estates (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)

Sogevinus

Barros
Burmester
Calem
Kopke

Symington Family Estates (link)

Dow Quinta do Bomfim (1,200 bottles) - possibly destined exclusively for the Danish market
Graham Bicentenary Edition (3,000 bottles)
Warre Vinhas Velhas 350 Anniversary Edition (2,400 bottles)

The Fladgate Partnership

Taylor Quinta de Vargellas (late release) (2,500 cases)

Van Zellers 400th Anniversary Special Edition
Vista Allegre

Quinta Valle Longo
Quinta Vista Alegre

Links to other vintages:
2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005

Posted: **10:11 Mon 09 May 2022**

We have decided to bottle Dow’s Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira and Cockburn’s Quinta dos Canais 2020 Vintage Ports which will age in our cellars for future release.

We will not bottle Vintage Port from Quinta do Vesúvio because the winery was closed in 2020 due to Covid-19 restrictions. This was the first year since the winery was built in 1827 that no grapes were foot-trodden.

From Symington web site

Posted: **10:23 Mon 09 May 2022**

CPR 1 wrote: ↑10:11 Mon 09 May 2022 We have decided to bottle Dow’s Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira and Cockburn’s Quinta dos Canais 2020 Vintage Ports which will age in our cellars for future release.

We will not bottle Vintage Port from Quinta do Vesúvio because the winery was closed in 2020 due to Covid-19 restrictions. This was the first year since the winery was built in 1827 that no grapes were foot-trodden.

From Symington web site

Ah, dang. I was assistant oenologist in SdR in 2019, 2020, and 2021. Was hoping to get the 2020 (already have the 2019), but I guess I'll have to wait.

BTW, Vesúvio was also closed in 2021, so that'll be two years in a row without Vesúvio VP.

Posted: **08:24 Tue 10 May 2022**

Churchill's have just declared on FaceBook that they will be releasing a Churchill's 2020 and a Churchill's Quinta da Gricha 2020 Vintage Port.

Posted: **19:53 Tue 10 May 2022**

Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

Posted: **21:17 Tue 10 May 2022**

nac wrote: ↑19:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

Posted: **21:41 Tue 10 May 2022**

flash_uk wrote: ↑21:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑19:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

I suspect reflecting the size of the declaration and the likelihood of the wine selling out and not appearing on the secondary market very often - how frequently do we see Warre 2009 these days?

Posted: **22:09 Tue 10 May 2022**

@ AHB - Warre 2009 available from Davy's at £230 for 6 IB according to WineSearcher.

Posted: **22:15 Tue 10 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote: ↑22:09 Tue 10 May 2022 @ AHB - Warre 2009 available from Davy's at £230 for 6 IB according to WineSearcher.

Much cheaper than Warre 2020. And only marginally more than I paid in 2011.

Still, since there is no Vesuvio in 2020 I'll probably use my budget to buy some of the Graham and/or the Warre.

Posted: **13:28 Wed 11 May 2022**

flash_uk wrote: ↑21:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑19:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

Nope - bottles.

Posted: **13:39 Wed 11 May 2022**

nac wrote: ↑13:28 Wed 11 May 2022
flash_uk wrote: ↑21:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑19:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?
Nope - bottles.

Oof.

Posted: **09:44 Sat 14 May 2022**

M.Charlton wrote: ↑13:39 Wed 11 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑13:28 Wed 11 May 2022
flash_uk wrote: ↑21:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑19:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?
Nope - bottles.
Oof.

Yes, very punchy indeed and based on a recent tasting, the Warre might prove the better value in the long term.

Posted: **16:32 Sat 14 May 2022**

Are you sure it’s for 3 bottles? USA pricing just came out and they’re $300/bottle (usd) for the Grahams. With a Slight discount for buying a three pack.

Posted: **19:13 Sat 14 May 2022**

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑16:32 Sat 14 May 2022 Are you sure it’s for 3 bottles? USA pricing just came out and they’re $300/bottle (usd) for the Grahams. With a Slight discount for buying a three pack.

I want some of what they're smoking.

Posted: **21:20 Sat 14 May 2022**

Broadly, I take the view that the houses can charge what they like for the declarations. Given the maturity curve, the real market for port is the secondary market. I suspect these will be perhaps half the price in 10 years in real terms.

Posted: **21:22 Sat 14 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote:Broadly, I take the view that the houses can charge what they like for the declarations. Given the maturity curve, the real market for port is the secondary market. I suspect these will be perhaps half the price in 10 years in real terms.

15 years ago I would have agreed. Today, I don’t. These will be worth more in 10 yrs time, no doubt.

Posted: **21:52 Sat 14 May 2022**

Well, Andy, Warre made 6000 bottles of 2009 and you can still buy it at release price here in the UK. I agree that 2400 bottles is a smaller release, so you may be right. But both of them are equally tiny by port standards. What did they make of 1977 - 180,000?

Posted: **21:57 Sat 14 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote:Well, Andy, Warre made 6000 bottles of 2009 and you can still buy it at release price here in the UK. I agree that 2400 bottles is a smaller release, so you may be right. But both of them are equally tiny by port standards. What did they make of 1977 - 180,000?

That is precisely why 77 (and similar vintages) are still relatively cheap and easy to find. That is no longer the case. I’d recommend buying on release these new small releases or be prepared to pay later, if you can find it.

For reference, 15,000 cases vs 200 cases (12 pack cases).

Posted: **22:24 Sat 14 May 2022**

But the 500 case release of 2009 is still available retail for release price. So why would the market dictate that a release at 1.3% of 1977 levels (200 cases, 2020) is automatically going to go up in value, given that a release of 3% of 1977 levels (500 cases, 2009) has not done so?

Posted: **09:55 Sun 15 May 2022**

Is it definitely the case (no pun intended), that 200 cases are the full output, or is that what has been released, with potentially more in cellar? Or does nobody really know which?

On the matter of 200 versus 500 cases, I could imagine the buying pattern not being a linear function. Perhaps something more like x number of cases tend to shift no matter the price - think OCD collectors that just want one. (Dunno who those people could be, though

)
In this scenario, some chunk of a release will go, leaving the rest to a more conventional market demand model. Whether that chunk of base OCD demand is 100, 200+ cases, who knows?

Posted: **10:36 Sun 15 May 2022**

I have just checked the PR material across a number of secondary sources and none mention production volumes, just that only 3000 bottles of Graham and 2400 bottles of Warre are being released EP. My inference from that important - indeed vital - omission is that there is a substantial multiple of that amount actually made in each case, for later release.

As flash says, arguably by restricting supply and demanding a high price for early release you mop up very profitably the non-price-sensitive market for those who just have to have it - the case-for-the-2020-child and, as flash notes, OCD individuals. You can release more later at secondary market price, but you've maybe nudged secondary market price up a bit (people don't like crystalising losses) and in any case you've scooped the pool on the primary release.

The net result, though, will still be as it was with 2009 - the market will only support the price the market will support. And, save for Nacional and whatever it is that James Suckling has given 130 out of 100 this year, that price is almost invariably still release price 10 years later.

I think an emendation to EU consumer law to require the number of bottles bottled to be prominently stated is long overdue.

Posted: **11:23 Sun 15 May 2022**

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑08:39 Mon 09 May 2022 While waiting for PCM's permission to edit the thread he started here on 2020 declarations, I thought I would create a thread similar in structure to those of previous years to capture and record the Vintage Ports we hear being declared from the 2020 vintage and to include links to other years.

Ofcourse you have my permission, Al!! Sorry for answering late, but I have a good excuse: having holiday in Portugal !!

Posted: **15:21 Sun 15 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote: ↑10:36 Sun 15 May 2022 the case-for-the-2020-child

Indeed my predicament. I would have banked on Vesuvio and/or a selection of the “normal” major house releases, but looks like a small number of pricey bottles.
Incidentally, not seen the Noval for sale anywhere yet (hat-tip to nac on the G and W/WVV?)

Posted: **21:08 Sun 15 May 2022**

SCP wrote: ↑15:21 Sun 15 May 2022
winesecretary wrote: ↑10:36 Sun 15 May 2022 the case-for-the-2020-child
Indeed my predicament. I would have banked on Vesuvio and/or a selection of the “normal” major house releases, but looks like a small number of pricey bottles.
Incidentally, not seen the Noval for sale anywhere yet (hat-tip to nac on the G and W/WVV?)

I have the same issue as you, when i saw the prices on Farr's i was shocked to the point where i don't think that i will be buy either of these for my daughter. i'm very looking at the others listed above to see who is going to good value and drinking.

Posted: **00:09 Mon 16 May 2022**

There might be another way to look at the pricing of these two wines. They are the selection of the very finest lotes made from the very best grapes from the cream of the Symington vineyards in order to make wines fit to commemorate the 200th anniversary of Graham’s and the 350th anniversary of Warre.

If I were in the SFE boardroom my over-riding requirement would be to make a wine whose power and quality would make it a fit and proper way to celebrate our 250th / 400th and our 300th / 450th anniversaries. I’d want to keep the vast majority of the wines made for use at company events over the next 100-200 years but would also recognise and accept that showing and sharing these wines in future years would have maximum impact if they are known to be rare, expensive and of stunning quality. On that basis I’d release a small proportion of the wines onto the market at a high price and hope not to sell too much.

If my thoughts above are along the right lines, we won’t see this vintage being late released ex-cellars for 47 years when small quantities might be released for the 50th birthday market in the way we saw with the Warre private cellar releases.

Maybe most of the time we will see the Graham and Warre 2020 feature in press tastings and publicity events such as the deep Cockburn vertical which the Symingtons held to celebrate their acquisition of all the Cockburn business a few years ago.

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