ThePortForum.com

Posted: **07:39 Mon 09 May 2022**

While waiting for PCM's permission to edit the thread he started here on 2020 declarations, I thought I would create a thread similar in structure to those of previous years to capture and record the Vintage Ports we hear being declared from the 2020 vintage and to include links to other years.

Amphitheatrum from Quinta da Gaivosa (Alves de Sousa)
Bioma Vinhas Velhas from Niepoort
Churchill's (link to FB announcement)
Churchill's Quinta da Gricha (link to FB announcement)
Menin Douro Estates
Pintas from Wine & Soul
Portal
Portal Quinta dos Muros
Quevedo
Quinta da Corte (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)
Quinta da Pedra Alta (2030 bottles)
Quinta da Romaneira
Quinta de Ervamoira from Ramos Pinto (9,200 bottles)
Quinta de Ventozelo (Silver medal winner in the 2023 DWWA)
Quinta do Cume (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)

Quinta do Noval

Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Noval Nacional

Quinta do Pego (Silver medal winner in the 2023 DWWA)
Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo (125 cases)
Sequeirinha from Golddrink Family Estates (seen at the IVDP London Tasting in November 2022)

Sogevinus

Barros
Burmester
Calem
Kopke

Symington Family Estates (link)

Dow Quinta do Bomfim (1,200 bottles) - possibly destined exclusively for the Danish market
Graham Bicentenary Edition (3,000 bottles)
Warre Vinhas Velhas 350 Anniversary Edition (2,400 bottles)

The Fladgate Partnership

Taylor Quinta de Vargellas (late release) (2,500 cases)

Van Zellers 400th Anniversary Special Edition
Vista Allegre

Quinta Valle Longo
Quinta Vista Alegre

Links to other vintages:
2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005

Posted: **09:11 Mon 09 May 2022**

We have decided to bottle Dow’s Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira and Cockburn’s Quinta dos Canais 2020 Vintage Ports which will age in our cellars for future release.

We will not bottle Vintage Port from Quinta do Vesúvio because the winery was closed in 2020 due to Covid-19 restrictions. This was the first year since the winery was built in 1827 that no grapes were foot-trodden.

From Symington web site

Posted: **09:23 Mon 09 May 2022**

CPR 1 wrote: ↑09:11 Mon 09 May 2022 We have decided to bottle Dow’s Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira and Cockburn’s Quinta dos Canais 2020 Vintage Ports which will age in our cellars for future release.

We will not bottle Vintage Port from Quinta do Vesúvio because the winery was closed in 2020 due to Covid-19 restrictions. This was the first year since the winery was built in 1827 that no grapes were foot-trodden.

From Symington web site

Ah, dang. I was assistant oenologist in SdR in 2019, 2020, and 2021. Was hoping to get the 2020 (already have the 2019), but I guess I'll have to wait.

BTW, Vesúvio was also closed in 2021, so that'll be two years in a row without Vesúvio VP.

Posted: **07:24 Tue 10 May 2022**

Churchill's have just declared on FaceBook that they will be releasing a Churchill's 2020 and a Churchill's Quinta da Gricha 2020 Vintage Port.

Posted: **18:53 Tue 10 May 2022**

Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

Posted: **20:17 Tue 10 May 2022**

nac wrote: ↑18:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

Posted: **20:41 Tue 10 May 2022**

flash_uk wrote: ↑20:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑18:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

I suspect reflecting the size of the declaration and the likelihood of the wine selling out and not appearing on the secondary market very often - how frequently do we see Warre 2009 these days?

Posted: **21:09 Tue 10 May 2022**

@ AHB - Warre 2009 available from Davy's at £230 for 6 IB according to WineSearcher.

Posted: **21:15 Tue 10 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote: ↑21:09 Tue 10 May 2022 @ AHB - Warre 2009 available from Davy's at £230 for 6 IB according to WineSearcher.

Much cheaper than Warre 2020. And only marginally more than I paid in 2011.

Still, since there is no Vesuvio in 2020 I'll probably use my budget to buy some of the Graham and/or the Warre.

Posted: **12:28 Wed 11 May 2022**

flash_uk wrote: ↑20:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑18:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?

Nope - bottles.

Posted: **12:39 Wed 11 May 2022**

nac wrote: ↑12:28 Wed 11 May 2022
flash_uk wrote: ↑20:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑18:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?
Nope - bottles.

Oof.

Posted: **08:44 Sat 14 May 2022**

M.Charlton wrote: ↑12:39 Wed 11 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑12:28 Wed 11 May 2022
flash_uk wrote: ↑20:17 Tue 10 May 2022
nac wrote: ↑18:53 Tue 10 May 2022 Some prices from Corney & Barrow today:

Graham - £468 per 3 in bond
Warre - £366 per 3 in bond

magnums?
Nope - bottles.
Oof.

Yes, very punchy indeed and based on a recent tasting, the Warre might prove the better value in the long term.

Posted: **15:32 Sat 14 May 2022**

Are you sure it’s for 3 bottles? USA pricing just came out and they’re $300/bottle (usd) for the Grahams. With a Slight discount for buying a three pack.

Posted: **18:13 Sat 14 May 2022**

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑15:32 Sat 14 May 2022 Are you sure it’s for 3 bottles? USA pricing just came out and they’re $300/bottle (usd) for the Grahams. With a Slight discount for buying a three pack.

I want some of what they're smoking.

Posted: **20:20 Sat 14 May 2022**

Broadly, I take the view that the houses can charge what they like for the declarations. Given the maturity curve, the real market for port is the secondary market. I suspect these will be perhaps half the price in 10 years in real terms.

Posted: **20:22 Sat 14 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote:Broadly, I take the view that the houses can charge what they like for the declarations. Given the maturity curve, the real market for port is the secondary market. I suspect these will be perhaps half the price in 10 years in real terms.

15 years ago I would have agreed. Today, I don’t. These will be worth more in 10 yrs time, no doubt.

Posted: **20:52 Sat 14 May 2022**

Well, Andy, Warre made 6000 bottles of 2009 and you can still buy it at release price here in the UK. I agree that 2400 bottles is a smaller release, so you may be right. But both of them are equally tiny by port standards. What did they make of 1977 - 180,000?

Posted: **20:57 Sat 14 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote:Well, Andy, Warre made 6000 bottles of 2009 and you can still buy it at release price here in the UK. I agree that 2400 bottles is a smaller release, so you may be right. But both of them are equally tiny by port standards. What did they make of 1977 - 180,000?

That is precisely why 77 (and similar vintages) are still relatively cheap and easy to find. That is no longer the case. I’d recommend buying on release these new small releases or be prepared to pay later, if you can find it.

For reference, 15,000 cases vs 200 cases (12 pack cases).

Posted: **21:24 Sat 14 May 2022**

But the 500 case release of 2009 is still available retail for release price. So why would the market dictate that a release at 1.3% of 1977 levels (200 cases, 2020) is automatically going to go up in value, given that a release of 3% of 1977 levels (500 cases, 2009) has not done so?

Posted: **08:55 Sun 15 May 2022**

Is it definitely the case (no pun intended), that 200 cases are the full output, or is that what has been released, with potentially more in cellar? Or does nobody really know which?

On the matter of 200 versus 500 cases, I could imagine the buying pattern not being a linear function. Perhaps something more like x number of cases tend to shift no matter the price - think OCD collectors that just want one. (Dunno who those people could be, though

)
In this scenario, some chunk of a release will go, leaving the rest to a more conventional market demand model. Whether that chunk of base OCD demand is 100, 200+ cases, who knows?

Posted: **09:36 Sun 15 May 2022**

I have just checked the PR material across a number of secondary sources and none mention production volumes, just that only 3000 bottles of Graham and 2400 bottles of Warre are being released EP. My inference from that important - indeed vital - omission is that there is a substantial multiple of that amount actually made in each case, for later release.

As flash says, arguably by restricting supply and demanding a high price for early release you mop up very profitably the non-price-sensitive market for those who just have to have it - the case-for-the-2020-child and, as flash notes, OCD individuals. You can release more later at secondary market price, but you've maybe nudged secondary market price up a bit (people don't like crystalising losses) and in any case you've scooped the pool on the primary release.

The net result, though, will still be as it was with 2009 - the market will only support the price the market will support. And, save for Nacional and whatever it is that James Suckling has given 130 out of 100 this year, that price is almost invariably still release price 10 years later.

I think an emendation to EU consumer law to require the number of bottles bottled to be prominently stated is long overdue.

Posted: **10:23 Sun 15 May 2022**

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑07:39 Mon 09 May 2022 While waiting for PCM's permission to edit the thread he started here on 2020 declarations, I thought I would create a thread similar in structure to those of previous years to capture and record the Vintage Ports we hear being declared from the 2020 vintage and to include links to other years.

Ofcourse you have my permission, Al!! Sorry for answering late, but I have a good excuse: having holiday in Portugal !!

Posted: **14:21 Sun 15 May 2022**

winesecretary wrote: ↑09:36 Sun 15 May 2022 the case-for-the-2020-child

Indeed my predicament. I would have banked on Vesuvio and/or a selection of the “normal” major house releases, but looks like a small number of pricey bottles.
Incidentally, not seen the Noval for sale anywhere yet (hat-tip to nac on the G and W/WVV?)

Posted: **20:08 Sun 15 May 2022**

SCP wrote: ↑14:21 Sun 15 May 2022
winesecretary wrote: ↑09:36 Sun 15 May 2022 the case-for-the-2020-child
Indeed my predicament. I would have banked on Vesuvio and/or a selection of the “normal” major house releases, but looks like a small number of pricey bottles.
Incidentally, not seen the Noval for sale anywhere yet (hat-tip to nac on the G and W/WVV?)

I have the same issue as you, when i saw the prices on Farr's i was shocked to the point where i don't think that i will be buy either of these for my daughter. i'm very looking at the others listed above to see who is going to good value and drinking.

Posted: **23:09 Sun 15 May 2022**

There might be another way to look at the pricing of these two wines. They are the selection of the very finest lotes made from the very best grapes from the cream of the Symington vineyards in order to make wines fit to commemorate the 200th anniversary of Graham’s and the 350th anniversary of Warre.

If I were in the SFE boardroom my over-riding requirement would be to make a wine whose power and quality would make it a fit and proper way to celebrate our 250th / 400th and our 300th / 450th anniversaries. I’d want to keep the vast majority of the wines made for use at company events over the next 100-200 years but would also recognise and accept that showing and sharing these wines in future years would have maximum impact if they are known to be rare, expensive and of stunning quality. On that basis I’d release a small proportion of the wines onto the market at a high price and hope not to sell too much.

If my thoughts above are along the right lines, we won’t see this vintage being late released ex-cellars for 47 years when small quantities might be released for the 50th birthday market in the way we saw with the Warre private cellar releases.

Maybe most of the time we will see the Graham and Warre 2020 feature in press tastings and publicity events such as the deep Cockburn vertical which the Symingtons held to celebrate their acquisition of all the Cockburn business a few years ago.

Posted: **18:00 Mon 16 May 2022**

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑23:09 Sun 15 May 2022 There might be another way to look at the pricing of these two wines. They are the selection of the very finest lotes made from the very best grapes from the cream of the Symington vineyards in order to make wines fit to commemorate the 200th anniversary of Graham’s and the 350th anniversary of Warre.

But no Stone Terraces?

Regarding pricing, note that the original release of The Stone Terraces in 2011 had a MSRP of $225/75cl in the US, and IIRC was 150 GBP in the UK. It was possible to find it for less than that, but most stores - even on the internet - were selling at full MSRP. That was for a release of 250 x 9l cases. If you can even find it today, the price fluctuates between $500 and $800 per bottle. It's currently ~$700/bottle in the UK.

Has Stone Terraces increased in value because it is a super cuvee, or is it because of the extremely limited 250-case release?

Note that until COVID hit, 2015 (400 cases), 2016 (450 cases), and 2017 (600 cases) were all still available at or below release price. In particular the 2015 could be found at a significant discount from MSRP - as low as $125 to $150 - and even currently can still be found for $165/bottle in the UK. The 2016 and 2017 have crept back up to MSRP or slightly higher over the last 2 years, but prior to COVID could still be found for around $175.

Unless you really think that the Stone Terraces pricing is entirely because it is a super cuvee, I would have to agree with Andy. These very small limited releases are only going to increase in price over time due to supply and demand. Major releases may not, but if you need 2020 Graham for a special reason, I recommend getting it as soon as you can even if this is just an initial release from a larger stock.

Posted: **09:53 Wed 25 May 2022**

Wine & Soul will declare a Pintas 2020 Vintage Port !!!

Posted: **11:44 Wed 01 Jun 2022**

Farr Vintners just listed 2020 Churchill's EP at 520 IB per 12-bottle case (normal size bottes).
For reference they have the 2016 at 440 IB as well.

Posted: **07:09 Sun 26 Jun 2022**

Axa Millessima and Vintage Wine & Port have both listed 6-packs of Noval 2020, only available DPV, and at £530 and £470 respectively.
It doesn’t look like any have been bought since being listed a couple of weeks ago.

Posted: **19:56 Thu 30 Jun 2022**

I do have a little news to add in that all those who brought a 2020 Grahams port bond will get 6 bottles of 2020 Grahams VP. Nice to see SFE honouring their commitment - even with a special release! Sadly the offer for the 2020 is no longer available.

Publicity around the 2020 release has generally been very low key. Noval, SFE and others have only released a tiny amount and allocations to retailers are also quite small.

Posted: **21:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022**

Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.

Posted: **02:54 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Glenn E. wrote: ↑21:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.

It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com

Posted: **04:45 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: ↑21:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com

Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!

Posted: **13:35 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: ↑21:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!

I have no idea why the price difference is so great between the UK and the States. Usually release price difference is relatively small nowadays.

Posted: **13:56 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Apologies if this has been posted and I have missed it but does anyone know what happened to the Vesuvio grapes? I presume they were harvested and vinified (albeit not under foot) which would give them a stock of decent wine to use for something else.

Posted: **17:56 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑13:35 Fri 01 Jul 2022
Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: ↑21:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!
I have no idea why the price difference is so great between the UK and the States. Usually release price difference is relatively small nowadays.

Vintage and Fine Wines is not exactly known for having competitive prices, but this one is even crazier than usual.

In my experience the "surcharge" for buying in the US at retail is usually about the cost of having something shipped over from England (in a large enough shipment). Stone Terraces was $225 retail in the US and (IIRC) 150 GBP in London. When those were released that was roughly the equivalent of $200, and then shipping 10 mixed cases via air freight added about $20 - $25 per bottle. So... about the same price either way.

But 2020 Graham is $300 in the US and I can find it for roughly the same 150 GBP as Stone Terraces in London, which at today's exchange rate is $180. At those prices, and even adding the cost of having it shipped to Seckford's and paying for a year of storage there (which you get charged for even if it's a simple check in/check out), it's still cheaper to buy in London and air ship to Seattle. Which is silly.

But that's what I'll have to do if I can't find it for a more reasonable price in the US.

Posted: **17:59 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

JacobH wrote: ↑13:56 Fri 01 Jul 2022 Apologies if this has been posted and I have missed it but does anyone know what happened to the Vesuvio grapes? I presume they were harvested and vinified (albeit not under foot) which would give them a stock of decent wine to use for something else.

I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.

Posted: **20:33 Fri 01 Jul 2022**

Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:59 Fri 01 Jul 2022I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.

That’s what I had heard too. I was guessing that grapes would have been mechanically vinified somehow on the basis that they were too good to waste and so will have made it into the Symington stocks somewhere. I suppose I am rather hoping we’ll get some very good special edition ruby or LBV made from them!

Posted: **06:56 Sat 02 Jul 2022**

JacobH wrote: ↑20:33 Fri 01 Jul 2022
Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:59 Fri 01 Jul 2022I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.
That’s what I had heard too. I was guessing that grapes would have been mechanically vinified somehow on the basis that they were too good to waste and so will have made it into the Symington stocks somewhere. I suppose I am rather hoping we’ll get some very good special edition ruby or LBV made from them!

They were sent to Quinta do Bomfim to be vinified there and incorporated into other SFE ports (I think the Vesúvio DOC wines were still made and will be released, unlike the Vesúvio VPs).

Posted: **12:26 Sat 02 Jul 2022**

MigSU wrote: ↑06:56 Sat 02 Jul 2022 They were sent to Quinta do Bomfim to be vinified there and incorporated into other SFE ports (I think the Vesúvio DOC wines were still made and will be released, unlike the Vesúvio VPs).

Interesting. Thank you. I suppose with volumes being down generally for 2020 and 2021, they probably don’t have enough Port for them to be used for anything special.

Posted: **14:07 Sat 02 Jul 2022**

I'm 99% sure, but I'll still ask my friend that runs the Vesúvio winery, just to be certain.

Posted: **16:49 Sat 02 Jul 2022**

Vesúvio DOC was produced at Sol. Port grapes were sent to Bomfim, for other SFE ports.

Posted: **22:27 Tue 05 Jul 2022**

From what I understand, the Symingtons are very proud of the fact that all Vesuvio vintage Ports are foot trodden on the estate.

Social distancing at the estate meant that many but each individually small picking teams could still operate in the vineyards to harvest the grapes but, as Miguel says, the grapes were sent elsewhere to be vinified using modern lagares.

The decision was taken that since the Port grapes from Vesuvio had not been foot trodden - and foot treading on the estate is part of the core value of the Vesuvio Port - no Vesuvio Vintage Port would be released from the 2020 vintage.

It’s worth keeping in mind that the Vintage Port produced at Vesuvio is only a small part of the estate’s Port production. Most of the Port made at Vesuvio would normally go into the blends and stocks of the other brands of SFE anyway. Nevertheless, I’m sure the extra 12-15 pipes normally used to make Vintage Port at Vesuvio will make a very welcome addition to the stocks needed to be built up to cope with the surging demand for tawny Port.

Posted: **23:30 Tue 05 Jul 2022**

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑22:27 Tue 05 Jul 2022 I’m sure the extra 12-15 pipes normally used to make Vintage Port at Vesuvio will make a very welcome addition to the stocks needed to be built up to cope with the surging demand for tawny Port.

One can only hope!

Posted: **15:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022**

The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market

Posted: **15:11 Thu 07 Jul 2022**

That's odd.

Posted: **17:15 Thu 07 Jul 2022**

Menin Douro Estates (new producer)
Ramos Pinto Quinta da Ervamoira
Niepoort Bioma Vinhas Velhas

Posted: **17:25 Thu 07 Jul 2022**

forest26 wrote: ↑15:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022 The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market

I think something similar happened with the 1972 vintage with the General Dow release being widely available but the Bonfim just Scandinavia and that possibly being just Denmark. Maybe Julian’s Second edition will be able to confirm these oddities.

Posted: **19:33 Thu 07 Jul 2022**

First edition has plenty of Denmark-only mentions.

forest26 wrote: ↑15:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market

Source, please.

Posted: **08:18 Tue 12 Jul 2022**

jdaw1 wrote: ↑19:33 Thu 07 Jul 2022 First edition has plenty of Denmark-only mentions.

forest26 wrote: ↑15:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
Source, please.

Email communication between Fells and myself.

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