An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

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M.Charlton
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An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by M.Charlton »

It seems that the Port Walk is no more (at least that’s what my account manager says). This event is set to take its place.
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JacobH
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by JacobH »

That’s a shame. £195 feels a touch aggressive for my tastes for this sort of tasting but perhaps that’s what these things costs these days?
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akzy
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by akzy »

Quite a mark up on the Port walk of previous years. Will give this a pass unless a magical amex offer falls into my lap.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by SCP »

Really disappointing. A big uptick in price and what looks like a substantially worse/more limited line-up to be tasted.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by winesecretary »

I think the pricing is in line with Berry's other tastings, and possibly better value. The wines are from BBR not the Symingtons who I expect will be donating their time. Costs of hosting this sort of thing are up circa 30 per cent on last year because of staff rate hikes etc. So... fair enough...
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

There’s a little more to the story behind the evolution of the Port Walk into An Evening With the Symingtons.

COVID caused the cancellation of all Berry’s events in 2020. More or less at the same time there was a change of leadership at Berry’s as the new generation of the family took over the business.

The hiatus in the events programme gave the management of Berry’s a chance to take a really good look at what was popular, what types of event sold well, what margins could be earned from using the spaces and so on.

Despite its popularity, the Port Walk did not generate the revenues or margins which could be earned by using the space for a different style of event positioned at a different price point. For example, a seasonal lunch ticket sells for £265 per person and an exploration of the White Wines of Burgundy costs £295. Nor did it appear to generate a significant boost to Port sales.

The result of the review was that the Port Walk was quietly dropped in 2021 and the space used for a more profitable event. I was rather unhappy about its absence and spoke to a few people in various relevant organisations, receiving assurances that it would be looked at again in 2022.

It was looked at again in 2022 with the same result, no Port Walk.

Even more unhappy that the previous year, I spoke to several other senior people in the relevant businesses. Elizabeth and I crunched some numbers and figured out how we could organise a Port Walk style event at a different venue, staffing and venue costs, break-even ticket sales numbers, ticket pricing and found a Port producer willing to lead the tasting.

However, we were very clear that we did not want to split the Port audience between a non-BBR Port Walk and a Port themed BBR event. If Berry’s wanted to organise an event which was Port based but which also met their financial requirements then we would park our plans.

The result is the Evening With the Symingtons. Priced significantly higher than the Port Walk, with a different format but now much more consistent with other BBR events — and so, hopefully, an event which can fit neatly into Berry’s future events programs for many years to come.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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JacobH
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by JacobH »

That’s very interesting. Thank you for posting.

Looking at the cost, the average BBR tasting seems to be £145 or £155. The odd one is a bit cheaper and a few are more expensive, such as this one. For my money, that £50 difference puts it into the category where I would just discount it outright as being too expensive for what it is. It means it is competing with say a trip to, Alexis Gauthier’s restaurant in Soho where I could have an 8-course tasting menu with paired wines for less. But then I am conscious that this is BBR which means it is going to be expensive by default and that I am very much not their target market.

I think the sad thing for the Port industry, though, is that the Port tasting has now gone from being an annual traditional event to just another tasting. Whilst this may sell out this year, are they going to manage to do it every year from now on? It wouldn’t surprise me if it becomes like other special category wines where there is one tasting every 3 years or so.

I don’t blame anyone, incidentally, but I do regret it.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Perhaps Berry's events are an example of Veblen goods. Certainly it seems the more expensive events are the ones which sell out most quickly. Places at Michel Roux's First Growth dinner - which costs over £1k per head (but I forget exactly how much they are) - never seem to hang around for long.

I keep my fingers crossed for BBR and the Port world that the new Port Walk sells out.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Glenn E.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Glenn E. »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 21:37 Fri 09 Sep 2022 Perhaps Berry's events are an example of Veblen goods.
Unfortunately that seems to be the case for very very old Tawny Ports. :(
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by uncle tom »

They might well sell the places on this, but it seems badly over-priced, and the selection of ports on offer looks scattergun and lacking a theme.

- Not for me.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Doggett
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Doggett »

We are a funny bunch. We spend a lot of time saying how Port is underpriced and undervalued as one of the worlds great wines, and this is still said despite any recent increases in pricing. But, when there is a movement in the pricing relating to Port to move it towards the pricing for other quality wines we get upset and wish for the good old days of Noval Nacional ‘63 at £12 a dozen 😀

I know this post is about an event rather than retail pricing, but the market positioning is the same. I enjoyed the Port walk a few years in a row from 2014 and a few of the Port events BBR used to stage around St George’s Day in April. From memory they were all about £100 and very enjoyable. The Port Walks were a bit repetitive in that the wines were often similar to the previous years and the Charles Symington talk normally Vesuvio based, but I think this was more a restriction of the what was available through BBR retail wise. I do remember feeing that the chance to try about 20 Ports, accompanying cheese etc, all at the Pickering Cellar at BBR (IN PERSON, no online malarkey) with a talk from Charles and the chance to talk to him about the wines afterwards was amazing value. The jump in price maybe significant, but I think it still represents good value considering the offering. If BBR want to encourage sell through of stock on the back of the event I am surprised they don’t build in an element of a voucher built into the cost against a purchase of the wines at the event. I have attended events at Hedonism where this is the case and there is always a queue to buy some wines using the voucher/discount. I think Nicholls and Perks successfully do this too.

Being a member of TPF has been such a privilege and has bought the opportunity to taste so many amazing glasses and the fortune to meet so many of the producers, that I think we can forget how lucky we are. I say that having only just scratched the surface of this amazing world and that many members have had many more extraordinary experiences. In all honesty, the Port Walk is not aimed at us. It is aimed at people that haven’t been lucky enough to join us in the amazing hedonism of a night sharing some great Port at the B&F. Many of us attended because it was just another night to enjoy a diverse range of Port… so almost a no brainer. So for those that have not found us, a wonderful experience is on offer for less than £200. Not cheap, but the value is most certainly there IMHO.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Great post Simon!
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Christopher »

Well said Simon, nice post.
forest26
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by forest26 »

Thank you Simon and Alex - some very profound posts in this thread.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by jdaw1 »

I agree with Simon, and the praise of his post.
Glenn E.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Glenn E. »

Doggett wrote: 22:30 Sun 11 Sep 2022 We are a funny bunch. We spend a lot of time saying how Port is underpriced and undervalued as one of the worlds great wines, and this is still said despite any recent increases in pricing. But, when there is a movement in the pricing relating to Port to move it towards the pricing for other quality wines we get upset and wish for the good old days of Noval Nacional ‘63 at £12 a dozen 😀
This seems perfectly normal to me. We are a logical bunch, so we recognize that Port is woefully undervalued compared to other wines. We definitely benefit from that, but we also aren't shy about pointing it out and sharing the gospel of Port with others. There's no secret cabal of Port enthusiasts working to keep the price suppressed. (Or if there is, it is a very well-kept secret and no one has let me into the cabal.)

When the price goes up, to a higher but still not relatively high enough price, we lament that our favorite beverage is getting more expensive. Of course we do. Any rational consumer would do the same. We don't want to pay more for our favorite beverage even though we realize that it is absolutely worth a higher price.

So yes. As wonderful as the Port Walk used to be, it was undervalued. Berry Bros. is a for-profit company. If they can make more revenue doing something else, they should. We may lament that because we enjoyed what they were doing before, but if the change works for them that will be good for us in the long run. They'll help us bring in new Port enthusiasts, and if we're lucky some of them will join our groups.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Jamiesan12o »

…and 2023’s version of this is now up: https://www.bbr.com/products-9006800119 ... ember-2023

Slightly different format by the looks of it - more walkaround-y.

As I sadly missed this last year, I’ll be going.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Thursday 1st December 2022

Post by Andy Velebil »

Jamiesan12o wrote:…and 2023’s version of this is now up: https://www.bbr.com/products-9006800119 ... ember-2023

Slightly different format by the looks of it - more walkaround-y.

As I sadly missed this last year, I’ll be going.
Looks like a fun event. And one of you best win the blind guessing game.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

And now 67 Pall Mall have just posted out details of their Port event, which is on Friday 1st December, also hosted by the Symingtons.

Sadly this current fashion for issuing details of tastings with only 3-4 weeks of notice means I can't attend either. My diary gets rammed at this time of year and filled months in advance.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Did anybody go to Berry’s Port Tasting last Tuesday (28th November)? I couldn’t make it, but I’d love to hear someone’s impression of the evening - by PM if you’d prefer not to post publicly.

I’ve just bought a last minute ticket for the 67 Pall Mall Port tasting tomorrow (Friday 1st December). A little unexpectedly I find I am in London and free in the evening, so took advantage. Anyone else planning to go? (Anyone not a member of 67 who’d like to go, get in touch with me - tickets are £160 per person to taste
20-year-old Tawny Port, Graham’s
2000 Vintage Port, Graham´s
1997 Single Harvest Tawny, Graham´s
1994 Vintage Port, Graham´s
40-year-old Tawny Port, Graham´s
1980 Vintage Port, Warre´s
1974 Single Harvest Tawny, Graham´s
1970 Vintage Port, Dow´s).
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Bertie3000 »

I attended the BBR tasting. The evening ran approximately like this:

615-7 White port and tonic pre start
7-730 Charles Symington presented about the company, the wines etc (I saw some of these slides last year but the presentation was different). Everyone stood and watched this in the upper level of Sussex the room
730-8 Charles talked us through 4 ports masterclass style in 2 pairs - 1980 Warre/Graham 40 year old then Graham 1994 vintage/Graham 1997 tawny
8-915 Five tables had been set up with 2 wines on each table. A sixth table had 3 ports to be tasted blind. Guests were free to wander around the tables in any order.
915-930 wrap up

Aside from the fact I feel they could have started 630 or 645, I really enjoyed the evening. It was nice to have a mix of masterclass and walkaround. I preferred this format to seated masterclass only. Charles was the only member of the Symington family there but stayed for the entire evening which gave everyone ample opportunity to chat to him.

During the evening, 17 ports were available to taste. Only one was spoilt from the original plan (Dow 1977, of course) and that was swapped for Dow 1991. Stand outs for me were Warre 1980 (still so dark!), Graham 1970, Vesuvio 2017 (so big) and the 1997 tawny (my first time trying this).

The blind wines were Dow, Warre and Vesuvio from 1994. No one called it perfectly but I was somehow closest and received a bottle of Dow 1994. The friend I was with now thinks I am some sort of port guru when in fact there is a fair amount of luck in these things!

Overall I thought it was a great evening. Yes it is expensive but the selection of wines was great and I really enjoyed the hybrid format.
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Glenn E.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Glenn E. »

Bertie3000 wrote: 10:52 Fri 01 Dec 2023 I attended the BBR tasting.
Sounds like a very nice evening!

I would hope that I would have recognized the 1994 Vesuvio. It's such a lovely Port. Well done earning the bottle of 1994 Dow!
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I think we should appropriately acknowledge Bertie3000’s ability to be the closest to all the Ports poured blind at the BBR tasting.

I nailed every one of the wines 67 Pall Mall Port tasting. I may have been helped by the placemat which said what each glass contained, but I’m certain I would have identified all 8 wines without the help.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Mike J. W. »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 22:50 Fri 01 Dec 2023 I think we should appropriately acknowledge Bertie3000’s ability to be the closest to all the Ports poured blind at the BBR tasting.

I nailed every one of the 67 Pall Mall Port tasting. I may have been helped by the placemat which said what each wine contained, but I’m certain I would have identified all. 8 wines without the help.
I probably still would have got a few wrong.
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Re: An Evening of Port with the Symington's, Tuesday 28th November at BBR and Friday1st December 2023 at 67 Pall Mall

Post by Glenn E. »

Mike J. W. wrote: 00:08 Sun 03 Dec 2023
Alex Bridgeman wrote: 22:50 Fri 01 Dec 2023 I think we should appropriately acknowledge Bertie3000’s ability to be the closest to all the Ports poured blind at the BBR tasting.

I nailed every one of the 67 Pall Mall Port tasting. I may have been helped by the placemat which said what each wine contained, but I’m certain I would have identified all. 8 wines without the help.
I probably still would have got a few wrong.
Same here. :lol:
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