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Got a bit thirsty whilst walking the east coast of Anglesey this past week. I packed an SFE 2009 LBV - bit closed, no big star - for late night refreshment, but needed another bottle.

So off to the local Spar convenience store. Therein I found a Cockburn 2015 LBV at £14.99.

Yet another Cockburn bottle design - is this the second or third since the Syms bought the biz?

Anyway, quite a heavy bottle, with a nice deep resonant plop sound as you pull the hefty T stopper. But hang on - there's something missing - no selo over the top of the bottle..

..but there it is, a separate rectangular slip label neatly below the back label.

My first purchase of a port bottle selo'd this way. Does it improve the appearance of the bottle? To my mind, yes..

Taylor’s obviously think not since they been adding their own selo to their LBVs for a while. It is black and has the Royal Warrant on the front. It’s interesting that they have done this: it makes me think that the selos produced by the IVDP were either expensive or difficult to use since I can’t immediately imagine why you would replace it with your own one otherwise.

Incidentally, I think most DOCs are moving to having their selos printed as part of the back label, which presumably saves some money. A few of these are quite attractive. I particularly like the swirl from Vino Verde or the drawing of a cork oak for Alentejo. A step up over the Douro DOC’s photograph of some terraces. I wonder if we will start to see this for Vintage Ports in the future?

The selo over the cork hasn't been mandatory - for either Ports or DOC Douro - for a while. Most Ports still use it due to tradition. I like it. But it is more bothersome than just printing it as part of the back label.

At minimum, the "label selo" was allowed in 2017 because all of my GST17 use it while my GST16 do not.

I prefer the traditional selo over the cork, as it makes the bottles easy to identify in stores and bars.

But I acknowledge that it is more expensive and more complicated to use, and thus likely headed for the dust bin of history.

The weight of this bottle intrigued me. I recall, a decade ago, a producer fearing that the green agenda would force them to use ultra lightweight bottles going forward.

Seems that memo got 'filed'..

Here are some dry bottle weights, weighed just now:

El cheapo Pinot Grigio bottle from my pub - 340g

Cockburn 2015 LBV bottle (less stopper) - 585g

Sandeman 1967 VP bottle - 595g

Croft 1945 VP bottle - 765g

So whilst not up with the real heavyweights of old, this modern LBV has been given a bottle that is fully half a pound heavier than strictly necessary..

uncle tom wrote: ↑15:34 Sun 02 Oct 2022 The weight of this bottle intrigued me. I recall, a decade ago, a producer fearing that the green agenda would force them to use ultra lightweight bottles going forward.

Seems that memo got 'filed'..

Here are some dry bottle weights, weighed just now:

El cheapo Pinot Grigio bottle from my pub - 340g

Cockburn 2015 LBV bottle (less stopper) - 585g

Sandeman 1967 VP bottle - 595g

Croft 1945 VP bottle - 765g

So whilst not up with the real heavyweights of old, this modern LBV has been given a bottle that is fully half a pound heavier than strictly necessary..

Wrong thread?

I've somewhat sidetracked my own thread here - if anyone wants to discuss glass weights further, a thread split may be needed.

uncle tom wrote: ↑15:34 Sun 02 Oct 2022 The weight of this bottle intrigued me. I recall, a decade ago, a producer fearing that the green agenda would force them to use ultra lightweight bottles going forward.

Seems that memo got 'filed'..

Here are some dry bottle weights, weighed just now:

El cheapo Pinot Grigio bottle from my pub - 340g

Cockburn 2015 LBV bottle (less stopper) - 585g

Sandeman 1967 VP bottle - 595g

Croft 1945 VP bottle - 765g

So whilst not up with the real heavyweights of old, this modern LBV has been given a bottle that is fully half a pound heavier than strictly necessary..

I wonder if that Sandeman ’67 bottle is atypically light? I think ½kg was about average for quality wine before people started to move to lighten them and so one might expect Port to be a bit heavier.

I get the impression the Symingtons are very keen to use lighter bottles, both as part of their green agenda and also because they are cheaper to buy and handle. There’s a recent article where Rob Symington says that most of their Port bottles are 450g.

For cheaper Ports, I tend to label the bottoms of the bottles with a white paint pen, so that I can quickly check what they are when they are lying on their sides with their necks facing away from me. I’ve noticed very few have a deep punt any more which must save a lot of weight. The only ones that I can see which really a really deep one are the Churchill tawnies. Quite a lot, including a lot of VP, have flat bottoms, although interestingly the Symington’s wines seem mostly to have a moderate one. I wonder if they will be flat in the future?

I wonder if that Sandeman ’67 bottle is atypically light?

I grabbed it because it happened to be handy - it may have been a little lighter than most bottles of that era.

I’ve noticed very few have a deep punt any more which must save a lot of weight.

As a rule, Portuguese bottles have a punt with a flat or gently concave base, something rarely seen on quality bottles made elsewhere.

A little party trick when offered an old bottle to look at is to study the neck whilst covertly feeling the base of the bottle. If the punt gives it away as Portuguese, you can pronounce it as such, leaving those around you wondering how on earth you can tell by looking at the neck..

uncle tom wrote: ↑12:42 Mon 03 Oct 2022 As a rule, Portuguese bottles have a punt with a flat or gently concave base, something rarely seen on quality bottles made elsewhere.

A little party trick when offered an old bottle to look at is to study the neck whilst covertly feeling the base of the bottle. If the punt gives it away as Portuguese, you can pronounce it as such, leaving those around you wondering how on earth you can tell by looking at the neck..

That’s interesting. I wonder why that was? Was it just what the Portuguese manufacturers made?

Regarding punts;

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/ ... ttle-46387