ThePortForum.com

This post to hold plans as when agreed.

Date: Tuesday 28th February.

Location: Boot & Flogger.

Theme: a decanting experiment, or two, and some extra bottles.

Bottles:

1. GC77 magnum (JDAW), perhaps decanted several ways;
   
2. SW77 magnum (AHB), perhaps decanted several ways;
3. D77 magnum (AHB), perhaps decanted several ways;
4. Cr77 magnum (CPR), perhaps decanted several ways;
   
5. QH77 magnum (CPR),perhaps decanted several ways.

Current draft of the food order.

People:

1. JDAW;
2. AHB;
3. MPM;
4. CPR;
5. GEAG;
6. BRP;
7. DGR;
8. CEM.

Current draft of the placemats.



Reserves:

• CMAG;
• BP;
• SCD;
• NAC;
• HTWH;
• PW.

Fifteen years ago, before meeting most of you, at my father’s house, a decanting experiment was done. The exact day of that experiment’s fifteenth anniversary being inconvenient, let’s do another decanting experiment on Tuesday 28th February 2023.

What is to be the experiment? We could reproduce that from Feb 2008, or, if possible, improve on it.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑17:24 Sat 19 Jan 2008A magnum of Noval 1963 will be decanted in five different ways:

• Freehand into a magnum decanter, stopping before sediment appears. This ‘prime’ N63 will then be split three ways:
  • through nothing;
  • through new muslin;
  • through washed muslin;
• The remaining sediment-rich ‘non-prime’ N63 will be decanted, with light swishing of bottle to really stir up the muck, in two ways:
  • through an unbleached coffee filter;
  • through new muslin.

All six decanters used will have been recently washed and obsessively rinsed.

That ’63 was decanted fifteen years ago, so this experiment could be with 1977s, and still be comparable to the previous results. And, happily, several of us have ’77 magnums.

Thoughts re structure.

• With fourteen of us, each magnum should be split at most four ways, and ideally only three ways.
• Decanting through a metal mesh has become more normal. That should be one of the possibilities.

Maybe the possibilities could be, for each of two magnums: ◊ freehand; ◊ through a bleached coffee filter; ◊ through an unbleached coffee filter; ◊ through a metal mesh.

Given that each magnum uses three or four glasses, I propose restricting the experiment to only two magnums.

I have SW77 or D77 in magnum on hand.

Count me in, please.

Sadly I will not be able to join you, but I note that in the original experiment the only valid comparison between the first and second groups is not swished and swished, both through new muslin. I would strongly discourage swishing.

If I must.

Yes please - I suspect I can find a 77 mag! how about Cr or QH?

flash_uk wrote: ↑18:58 Mon 02 Jan 2023Count me in, please.

Added.

nac wrote: ↑19:32 Mon 02 Jan 2023If I must.

You must.

CPR 1 wrote: ↑19:50 Mon 02 Jan 2023Yes please

Added.

DRT wrote: ↑19:00 Mon 02 Jan 2023Sadly I will not be able to join you

Not added, alas.

CPR 1 wrote: ↑19:50 Mon 02 Jan 2023I suspect I can find a 77 mag! how about Cr or QH?

Each mag will use three or four glasses, so there’s a limit on the number of decanting-experiment magnums needed. Perhaps those not used for the experiment could just be happy extra bottles (the original theme did include “and some extra bottles”).

DRT wrote: ↑19:00 Mon 02 Jan 2023but I note that in the original experiment the only valid comparison between the first and second groups is not swished and swished, both through new muslin. I would strongly discourage swishing.

Very willing to reshape the experiment. The original experiment poured freehand until sediment appeared. That clean juice could then be tested for contaminants having passed through various sieves. It had to be done that way, to prevent an ordering bias in the decanting (is first pour different, in a sediment sense, to second pour? Indeed, having reminded myself of this, I’m less keen on the my proposed four-way split. Will rethink). What remained had lots of sediment, so it was decided to test the ‘lots’. That doesn’t need to be repeated, but really wasn’t foolish.

Yes please

Fourteen of us, and let’s say seven magnums. If three are split four ways, then we would need 3×4 + 4×1 = sixteen glasses, which is eminently doable. If four are split then 4×4 + 3×1 = nineteen glasses, which would be tight on table space. So we could do the experiment with three magnums.

Maybe the theme should specify “and some extra magnums”.

You can do a freehand decant of the whole of each magnum, and then double-decant portions through the alternative methodologies. Then every bottle only gets tilted once.

Ignore my last post, that's exactly what you did in 2008

Provisionally yes please. Have no magnums so will need to contribute either a bottle or funds. Need to check which dates in Feb I can definitely do and hope they align with what the RMT allows!

Yes, count me in, have various mags that are readily accessible.

Yes, and have RV77 mage available, but... will depend on whether the postponed Warre Private cellar tasting goes ahead on Feb 23rd, as I'm unlikely to make both; the Warre tasting has been multiply-postponed, and the current date might or might not be provisional (sign-ups unclear in thread etc).

yes please, I'm sure that i can find a magnum or two.

PhilW wrote: ↑11:32 Tue 03 Jan 2023 Yes, and have RV77 mage available, but... will depend on whether the postponed Warre Private cellar tasting goes ahead on Feb 23rd, as I'm unlikely to make both; the Warre tasting has been multiply-postponed, and the current date might or might not be provisional (sign-ups unclear in thread etc).

Planning for 23rd to proceed.

Doggett wrote: ↑09:29 Tue 03 Jan 2023Provisionally yes please. Have no magnums so will need to contribute either a bottle or funds. Need to check which dates in Feb I can definitely do and hope they align with what the RMT allows!

Added.

idj123 wrote: ↑10:21 Tue 03 Jan 2023Yes, count me in, have various mags that are readily accessible.

Not everybody needs to bring a magnum. That would be silly (by which I might also mean splendid).

PhilW wrote: ↑11:32 Tue 03 Jan 2023Yes, and have RV77 mage available, but... will depend on whether the postponed Warre Private cellar tasting goes ahead on Feb 23rd, as I'm unlikely to make both; the Warre tasting has been multiply-postponed, and the current date might or might not be provisional (sign-ups unclear in thread etc).

Too complicated for me. Added anyway.

hadge wrote: ↑11:54 Tue 03 Jan 2023yes please, I'm sure that i can find a magnum or two.

Definitely, everybody should bring “a magnum or two”.

Please put me down as a reserve

jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:20 Tue 03 Jan 2023 Too complicated for me. Added anyway.

Warre Private cellar tasting has been confirmed to be going ahead, so as indicated I will be unlikely to be able to make this tasting as well; please move me to reserve.

My apologies but I won’t be able to make this tasting now.

Count me in if there's space

We need agreement about the design of the experiment.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑18:48 Mon 02 Jan 2023Maybe the possibilities could be, for each of two magnums: ◊ freehand; ◊ through a bleached coffee filter; ◊ through an unbleached coffee filter; ◊ through a metal mesh.

Does this mean we:
(1) freehand decant our magnum to the point where significant sediment starts to flow out of the magnum
(2) divide our freehand decanted magnum contents into four equal parts
(3) leave one part alone, filter one part through bleached coffee filter paper, one through unbleached coffee filter paper and the last part through a metal coffee filter mesh
(4) filter the remnants in the decanter through our teeth and look forward to the tasting?

I'm likely to have to drop out of this. Will confirm ASAP.

Sadly, I'm going to have to drop out of this one.

nac wrote: ↑08:39 Wed 01 Feb 2023 I'm likely to have to drop out of this. Will confirm ASAP.

Yup - definitely can't attend.

PhilW wrote: ↑15:56 Thu 05 Jan 2023I will be unlikely to be able to make this tasting as well; please move me to reserve.

Still unlikely (as I note I'm in main list).

Julian - could you confirm that we're still going ahead with this tasting in the light of people having to drop out?

We are now seven people. So I might agree with Alex — this is slightly too many for three magnums. ⟹︎ Thunderbirds Are Go!

Three magnums. I’ll bring a GC77. Charles: you have many magnums of 1977: please would you volunteer another magnum of your fine year? Pls cld somebody else also volunteer a ’77 magnum. Others: pls consider bringing, between you, one or two bottles of fine mature full-bodied non-fortified red.

We need to agree what is to be done with the magnums. I propose, for mine, a four way split. The bottle is to be gentled swirled, so that there is an even amount of sediment everywhere. So that the treatments are handled equally, the four decants will be concurrent: some into decanter 1, some into 2, some 3, some 4, some more into 1, etc.

1. Through unbleached coffee filter.
2. Through bleached coffee filter.
3. Through metal gauze.
4. Through nothing.

Sighted for the bringer of the decanters; blind for everybody else?

Objections?

Sounds great!

I have D77 in magnum at home, which I could bring.

I aso have fine, mature full-bodied red at home.

Yes no problem - allways happy to bring a 77 mag

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑17:53 Thu 09 Feb 2023I have D77 in magnum at home, which I could bring.

I aso have fine, mature full-bodied red at home.

Thank you.

CPR 1 wrote: ↑19:21 Thu 09 Feb 2023Yes no problem - allways happy to bring a 77 mag

Thank you. Which?

The (current draft of the) placemats reveals† the game.



Up to four decanting methods per magnum:

• the methods used for JDAW’s GC77 are labelled A, B, C, and D;
• the methods used for AHB’s D77 are labelled E, F, G, and H; and
• the methods used for CPR’s Cr77 are labelled I, J, K, and L.

For each magnum the set of methods being used will be pre-revealed, and people then pick which of each magnum’s 4! orderings‡ they think most likely. Then we can argue about whether there really was a consistent difference between them.

Objections?

Those doing the decanting might wish to create decanter labels, for which the placemats include a decanter-label sheet:


† Singular / plural anguish.
‡ 4! ≡ 4 × 3 × 2 × 1 = 24.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:07 Thu 09 Feb 2023

CPR 1 wrote: ↑19:21 Thu 09 Feb 2023Yes no problem - allways happy to bring a 77 mag

Thank you. Which?

Croft

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

I am minded to decant the entire magnum freehand, stopping before the sediment starts to appear in the decanter. (It will have been stood up for about 2 weeks to settle properly, opened the night before the tasting and decanted the morning of the tasting.)

One quarter of the decanted wine will be filtered through unbleached coffee filter paper.

One quarter will be filtered through muslin.

One quarter will be poured through a heavily previously used stainless steel coffee filter.

One quarter will have no further treatment.

Ooh I have just had a brain wave as to what mature full bodied red to bring. I am excited already!

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑16:36 Fri 10 Feb 2023I am minded to decant the entire magnum freehand, stopping before the sediment starts to appear in the decanter. (It will have been stood up for about 2 weeks to settle properly, opened the night before the tasting and decanted the morning of the tasting.)

One quarter of the decanted wine will be filtered through unbleached coffee filter paper.

One quarter will be filtered through muslin.

One quarter will be poured through a heavily previously used stainless steel coffee filter.

One quarter will have no further treatment.

What happens to the heavily sedimented part that remains after the “stopping before the sediment starts to appear”?

winesecretary wrote: ↑18:45 Fri 10 Feb 2023Ooh I have just had a brain wave as to what mature full bodied red to bring. I am excited already!

Alex has also offered. Please consult with him.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:51 Fri 10 Feb 2023

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑16:36 Fri 10 Feb 2023I am minded to decant the entire magnum freehand, stopping before the sediment starts to appear in the decanter. (It will have been stood up for about 2 weeks to settle properly, opened the night before the tasting and decanted the morning of the tasting.)

One quarter of the decanted wine will be filtered through unbleached coffee filter paper.

One quarter will be filtered through muslin.

One quarter will be poured through a heavily previously used stainless steel coffee filter.

One quarter will have no further treatment.

What happens to the heavily sedimented part that remains after the “stopping before the sediment starts to appear”?

That will be filtered in an entirely different way which is likely to render it into a form others are unlikely to want to taste.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:51 Fri 10 Feb 2023

winesecretary wrote: ↑18:45 Fri 10 Feb 2023Ooh I have just had a brain wave as to what mature full bodied red to bring. I am excited already!

Alex has also offered. Please consult with him.

I’m happy to stand aside and let George bring the bottle he has in mind.

Three magnums and two bottles of red seem fair enough for seven - so don't feel, Alex, that you have to step aside!

The answer might be one red from Alex, one from George. Both sighted.

I have written to the B&F saying that there are only seven people, and consequently allowing us to be moved to the Green Room.

Also, catching up on my social admin, Darrel is in town that night - is it okay if I invite him?

winesecretary wrote: ↑15:26 Sat 11 Feb 2023Also, catching up on my social admin, Darrel is in town that night - is it okay if I invite him?

Sure. Would we need another bottle of something?

I can find another full bodied red no problems...

DGR confirmed and will arrive with a full bodied red as will I.

Food orders please, from the B&F menu.

Food for me please:
No starter
M-R steak and skinny fries, no sauce, green beans and shallots.