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Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 19:47 Sat 15 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
Has anyone ever heard of the Old Reading Abbey Brand as a Port bottler? I won a bottle of 1963 Fonseca at a Zachy's Hong Kong auction a little while back. I was going through some of my bottles today and noticed that this one had a capsule wrapper that said "Old Reading Abbey Brand". I've never heard of it, but I thought maybe some of you over in the UK have. The label doesn't say anything, but I know it has an importers label from the U.S. and must have subsequently been transported or sold over in Hong Kong where I assume Zachy's picked it up to auction it off. The bottle has been well traveled. Any info anyone has about the bottler would be greatly appreciated.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 20:46 Sat 15 Apr 2023
by Alex Bridgeman
I live not far from Reading and know the abbey (ruins) quite well. While I have never heard of a local bottler who used the Old Reading Abbey brand.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 22:59 Sat 15 Apr 2023
by jdaw1
“Old Reading Abbey” is new to me.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 23:56 Sat 15 Apr 2023
by Andy Velebil
Anything old in a Hong Kong auction, in general beware. Never heard of such. Who was the US importer?
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 10:24 Sun 16 Apr 2023
by PhilW
Butler and Sons were a wine and spirits merchant with premises in Reading who used the brand "Old Reading Abbey" as a BOB (Buyer's Own Brand) for whisky in the early 1900s, and could perhaps have used it for port also.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 18:51 Sun 16 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
Andy Velebil wrote: ↑23:56 Sat 15 Apr 2023
Anything old in a Hong Kong auction, in general beware. Never heard of such. Who was the US importer?
Wine Cellars Ltd in Briarcliff Manor, NY. They look legit, but oddly their label noted it was a Fortified wine, but the abv they indicated was between 11% to 14%. Obviously an ill informed label. I guess I'll know for sure if it's real whenever I decant it and see the branded cork.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 18:56 Sun 16 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
PhilW wrote: ↑10:24 Sun 16 Apr 2023
Butler and Sons were a wine and spirits merchant with premises in Reading who used the brand "Old Reading Abbey" as a BOB (Buyer's Own Brand) for whisky in the early 1900s, and could perhaps have used it for port also.
Thanks Phil. This seems like the most likely explanation then. I read up on them and they did bottle some Australian wines, so it's possible they did bottle some Port as well. It appears they are no longer a wine and spirits merchant, but they still run a pub next door to their old shop.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 09:01 Mon 17 Apr 2023
by PhilW
The main unanswered question would be whether the business was still trading in 1963 - in which case an Old Reading Abbey port being F63 would be possible, or whether a forger has picked an old/defunct wine merchant and just used their name to create counterfeit bottles. Hopefully the former, but it will be interesting to see what you find when you open the bottle.
From the little information I could see, Butler and Sons wine merchants were established around 1830, and around 1900 or so were selling the Old Reading Abbey whisky; the business was ongoing in 1935 (when it looks as though it transferred within the family, possibly being passed on to the next generation, unclear); I haven't seen anything later than that aside from their "The Butler" pub, but then as they say absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 09:02 Mon 17 Apr 2023
by PhilW
btw, can we get a few pics of the bottle/capsule to look at, for interest?
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 18:05 Mon 17 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
PhilW wrote: ↑09:01 Mon 17 Apr 2023
The main unanswered question would be whether the business was still trading in 1963 - in which case an Old Reading Abbey port being F63 would be possible, or whether a forger has picked an old/defunct wine merchant and just used their name to create counterfeit bottles. Hopefully the former, but it will be interesting to see what you find when you open the bottle.
From the little information I could see, Butler and Sons wine merchants were established around 1830, and around 1900 or so were selling the Old Reading Abbey whisky; the business was ongoing in 1935 (when it looks as though it transferred within the family, possibly being passed on to the next generation, unclear); I haven't seen anything later than that aside from their "The Butler" pub, but then as they say absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.
Apparently they were still trading up until 1976, so it's likely that this is legit. I also went digging and just found this:
http://ww2.berkshirenclosure.org.uk/Cal ... id=DEX1557
It will tell you more than you could ever want to know about the business and family. They don't list the types of wines they imported unfortunately other than a vague reference to a trip to France one time.
Phil, am I able to attach pics here or do I need to email them?
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 07:38 Tue 18 Apr 2023
by PhilW
Nice link for the information.
You can attach photos to posts on the forum, though they are subject to size restrictions - I usually have to resize them first.
Happy to receive by email also; will PM you my address.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 19:06 Wed 19 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
PhilW wrote: ↑07:38 Tue 18 Apr 2023
Nice link for the information.
You can attach photos to posts on the forum, though they are subject to size restrictions - I usually have to resize them first.
Happy to receive by email also; will PM you my address.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 23:07 Wed 19 Apr 2023
by winesecretary
To me that foil looks like it's been reused from another bottle. You should however bear in mind I am a cynical tax lawyer and have been wrong before about genuinity. The proof of the pudding will be in the cork - we all know what 55 year old corks look like when extracted - and the contents.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 03:42 Thu 20 Apr 2023
by Andy Velebil
winesecretary wrote:To me that foil looks like it's been reused from another bottle. You should however bear in mind I am a cynical tax lawyer and have been wrong before about genuinity. The proof of the pudding will be in the cork - we all know what 55 year old corks look like when extracted - and the contents.
I was gonna say the same thing. And it looks like the capsule was cut open on the top like a pie. If you zoom in you can see what looks like all the fine slice marks. Rather odd.
Let us know what the cork and contents are like when you open it.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 09:03 Thu 20 Apr 2023
by PhilW
In further agreement, that looks like someone has just put an foil from elsewhere over the top of the F63, rather than an indication of bottler.
Hopefully this is a normal bottle of F63, whose original capsule has been damaged/removed and the owner has put this over for protection; the label looks genuine enough.
Re: Old Reading Abbey Brand
Posted: 15:28 Thu 20 Apr 2023
by Mike J. W.
Thanks all for your input. You're probably right about it being a replacement covering. I'll find out for sure if it's a F'63 this September. Every year a college buddy of mine hosts a bunch of us down at his shore house. I always bring Port and we do tastings both nights. This year I'm going to do 40 year-old Tawnies one night and the second night, I'm going to do 1963 VP's since it's been 60 years. I'll let you know what I find out.