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My second TPF post here...the first, earlier today, which was perhaps a little more wildly hopeful (a more than wishful brain picking request re an unknown 1896: this one a keeper/drinker).

Per intro request/some context, I'm in the UK wine trade and head a small, independent, fine and rare wine merchant. However, this is a personal note on a personally owned bottle. NB the reason for considering selling this is due to the high value, despite the fact I'd love to drink it. For info, I'm well tuned into checking glassware, capsules etc are correct for age (etc), given it's part and parcel of my job (and a long-term hobby).

I own what was acquired as an unknown 1931 Vintage Port. Unlabelled. However, after plentiful research and clearly visible info on the cap and cork (located with a torch and some effort), I have deduced and affirmed it as Quinta do Noval Vintage 1931 (Nacional or not is another question, alas!...but perhaps unlikely to be the former). It's a Justerini & Brooks, Bailey & Co bottling in superb condition (top-very top shoulder, great colour). Detailed photos and information on deduction can gladly be provided on interest - a few teaser pics below.

Again, I would consider selling this to a drinker but, of course, at the right price - any interest, please feel free to message me or drop a note below and I can message you. Regardless, it is a looker and a nice thing to own, as I'm sure many will agree. And I'll gladly keep hold of it for a while, if needs be.

For info, I am based in Manchester, UK. The bottle has been stored in LCB, prior to removal to me 3 weeks ago for inspection. It's currently in my private cellar. If it happened to go to a UK buyer (most of England, at least, say a max 4 hour drive each way), I'd almost certainly hand deliver it to ensure it's well handled.

Thanks for looking.
Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for posting and the pics of a lovely bottle.

Do you know it’s provenance? If you know more than you have already shared it might help to build the picture of the bottle.

For full disclosure, I am unlikely to buy the bottle, just trying to ask a useful question.

Thanks.

My poor, befuddled eyes cannot make sense of the lettering on that cork! The latter half looks like it might be INTA which would make sense as part of "VINTAGE" but the first 2 letters have me baffled! An 'H' followed by an 'O"? But the first visible letter also could be 'N'?

If in fact a 1931 Noval, that's a very nice bottle you have there, Dan!

(A 1931 Noval of either variety is well outside my price range, but the mystery is fun!)

Glenn E. wrote: ↑05:07 Wed 18 Dec 2024 My poor, befuddled eyes cannot make sense of the lettering on that cork! The latter half looks like it might be INTA which would make sense as part of "VINTAGE" but the first 2 letters have me baffled! An 'H' followed by an 'O"? But the first visible letter also could be 'N'?

It could be the power of persuasion, but I saw the first two letters as being “QU”, thus “QUINTA”.

If you're talking about the last picture then it definitely says Quinta.

Hi both,

I'm not quite tuned into how to quote yet, but:

Alex, re provenance: unfortunately, details are unsurprisingly super limited here, given significant age etc. This was a personal buy (for drinking) initially and the seller advised "sold by a third party" and little else, despite my request for details. From a UK cellar and potentially probate related. I bought given the (various) bottles looked correct and on form. Which they are, after my detailed inspection, and clearly extremely well stored. Also the want to investigate this "unknown".
Probably the most surprising bottle of these is a half of Taylor's 1935 given how ridiculously good the level and colour are (for a half..). That's potentially being opened over Christmas, alongside the 1896...although I want to try to deduce what that may be first! (and decide how nice I'm going to be to the less wine snobby family!)

Glenn re cork: this indeed, very clearly (without the reduced image size), states "QUINTA". This is followed by the first half of the vintage (before lip and cap are in the way), which I also have a photo of.

One of many capsule snaps below, for interest...

Cheers

Even if this isn't of interest to anyone here, a nice thing to talk about...I've had some fun with it/put some graft into the research and affirmation process.

Agree clearly "QUINTA" on the cork, and "Justerini & Brooks" and "1931"on the capsule - which if it's ok with you, I would like to add the capsule image to the VPID please?

No problem, Phil, go ahead

Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑07:54 Wed 18 Dec 2024

Glenn E. wrote: ↑05:07 Wed 18 Dec 2024 My poor, befuddled eyes cannot make sense of the lettering on that cork! The latter half looks like it might be INTA which would make sense as part of "VINTAGE" but the first 2 letters have me baffled! An 'H' followed by an 'O"? But the first visible letter also could be 'N'?

It could be the power of persuasion, but I saw the first two letters as being “QU”, thus “QUINTA”.

Ah yes, I think that's it! It's not 100% clear, but now that you've said it I do see that as "QUINTA".

PhilW wrote: ↑11:05 Wed 18 Dec 2024 Agree clearly "QUINTA" on the cork, and "Justerini & Brooks" and "1931"on the capsule - which if it's ok with you, I would like to add the capsule image to the VPID please?

I'm not sure that yellow "BROOKS" capsule says 1931. It looks very much like 1937 to me.

I also note that there is an '&' at roughly 4:30, which appears to be followed by 'C' and likely 'O', and preceded by 'Y' and possibly 'G' or 'C'. There also may be a 'U' at roughly 7:00 which may be preceded by an 'I'.

So much mystery!

Agree with the 7 instead of a 1.

It is definitely not a 7. Note the width of the top section of the 3 - the top of a 7 would be the same and this isn't concurrent with the spacing of the numbers.

Per...

Y, & and C "at 4:30" is indeed concurrent with the correct full name...

Justerini & Brooks, Bailey & Co

There are various references for this, from Alex on here (per Julian's book) and:

Christies (1997)
Quinta do Noval--Vintage 1931
All with legible remains of embossed wax capsules "Justerini, Brooks, Bailey & Co. 1931".

Much digging done, not just an assumption (just for info, Sotheby's agreed without hesitation - re their valuation opinion, not sale - others, longterm in the trade agree...I would politely say I'm pretty tuned in + have had in my hands/sight).

Last one...excuse many posts..just clarifying 31 after the disagreements. I'm not sure 1931 is questionable.

It’s pretty clear to me that this is a bottle of Noval 1931, bottled by Justerini. It’s identical to the one which I drank some years ago — I just need to dig out some pictures, if I can.

The aligned thoughts and comments are appreciated, Alex. And the matching photos, if you still have.

I agree that with the 1931 (not 1937). I would note that there is at least one other quinta bottling in 1931 - Roriz - and there could be others; but I agree that this is most likely to be Noval, especially since there is a known bottling of Noval 1931 by Justerini.

Thanks, Phil. Despite missing Roriz off my list, my belief is that Gonzalez Byass/R B Byass was the sole English bottler (or even sole bottler, full stop)? Always happy to be educated. And excuse all the brain picking.

NB if anyone has any factual info to show that J&B bottled anything other than Noval in (from) 1931, feel free to highlight.

The subsequent photos do make it much clearer that it reads "1931" and not "1937". That first photo just looks different to me - the vertical stroke appears to start leaning outward (away from the '3') in a way that looks like it could be as wide as the '3' at the top, making me think it looks like a '7'.

Thanks Glenn

Indeed, and as mentioned in first post here, per the reasoning:

Detailed photos and information on deduction can gladly be provided on interest - a few teaser pics below.

DLovedale wrote: ↑15:53 Tue 17 Dec 2024 Again, I would consider selling this to a drinker but, of course, at the right price - any interest, please feel free to message me or drop a note below and I can message you. Regardless, it is a looker and a nice thing to own, as I'm sure many will agree. And I'll gladly keep hold of it for a while, if needs be...

Have messaged you. If it hasn't arrived, let me know.

Have messaged you. If it hasn't arrived, let me know.

Thanks. Nothing through yet

Have messaged you. If it hasn't arrived, let me know.

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