ThePortForum.com

We're pretty well informed regarding vintage port, and the vintage ports made in years past, but the other types of port seem to get lost to history with indecent speed.

Is it worth maintaining a database of the shippers other products?

It occurs to me that a simple matrix of producers and product classes, with each cell listing brand name(s) together with launch dates (and discontinuation dates) would not be too difficult to establish. The producers could be asked to include us on their mailing list when launching new products, and historical information could be added when it became available.

Is this worth doing?

Tom

Please help us think about this by posting an example — even if only using fake data.

I was thinking along the lines of a spreadsheet, with the shippers/brands on one axis and the types on the other - for example you might look up Reserves on one axis and Cockburn on the other, and get an entry that might read:

Special Reserve, (1976? - present day)

Alternatively you might look up Crusted and Fonseca, and find an entry that read:

Known bottling dates: None prior to 2004 (also bottled that year under the Wine Society label)

Or LBV and Vesuvio:

No record of production

I'm not sure how best to link a spreadsheet with the php platform however, is it possible to incorporate drop-downs referencing a remote spreadsheet?

Tom

• Reserves
  • Cockburn: Special Reserve, (1976? - present day);
  • Taylor: …
• Crusted
  • Fonseca: Known bottling dates: None prior to 2004 (also bottled that year under the Wine Society label);
• Late Bottled Vintage = LBV
  • Vesuvio: No record of production.

Send me data, however you have it, and I’ll make a spreadsheet to do the formatting.

uncle tom wrote:It occurs to me that a simple matrix of producers and product classes, with each cell listing brand name(s) together with launch dates (and discontinuation dates) would not be too difficult to establish. The producers could be asked to include us on their mailing list when launching new products, and historical information could be added when it became available.

This sounds like an excellent idea. I do wonder, though, whether the historic data might be a bit awkward due to the constant changes in naming regulations for non-Vintage Port which may not correspond to changes to the content of the bottles (e.g. when “Vintage Character† was banned, did any shippers change their wines when rebranding them as “Reserve†?).

-Jacob

For the types, I have seventeen styles, including one obsolete style which needs to be included for historical purposes (vintage character), and a catch-all 'Special' for anything that doesn't seem to fit.

Are there now categories for whites with indication of age? I'm not quite clear about recent changes on that front.

Of the premium styles, Vintage can be left out, and I don't think we need to make a distinction for those that have the words 'bottle matured' on the label, as they all get bottle matured over time!

As there is no clear change-over point, I think we should use the current term 'unfiltered' for unfiltered LBV's, with the now outlawed term 'traditional' added in parentheses.

So my list goes:

Standard Ruby
Standard Tawny
Standard White

Reserve
Tawny reserve
White reserve

Unfiltered LBV (Traditional)
Filtered LBV
Crusted
Vintage character

10yr Tawny
20yr Tawny
30yr Tawny
40yr Tawny
Colheita
Garrafeira

Special

Have I missed any?

Tom

When we discussed this for my script (here) we also added White Colheita (or Colheita (White)) and Pink (possibly as a subset of Ruby). I’m not sure what the official line on aged Whites is, but it might make sense to take the de-facto line and include them anyway.

and Pink

How could i forget that...

Tom

I've just spent some time burrowing into the little recesses of the IVDP site in search of a definitive list of approved port types, but to no avail.

Does anyone have an up-to-date list of port products that can carry the guarantee seal - especially the variants of white port, which I believe have been extended fairly recently.

Tom

With regards to white port:

Categorias especiais do Vinho do Porto Branco

Os Vinhos do Porto podem ostentar as menções Reserva ou Indicação de Idade (10, 20, 30 ou + 40 anos) desde que cumpridas as formalidades inscritas nos regulamentos do Vinho do Porto sobre esta temática.

which, in my barely-existent Portuguese seems to suggest that they will be allowing tawny-style indication of age on white Port once the formalities to change the IVDP regulations have been completed (though I’m struggling a bit with the tense: it could mean “now that the formalities have been changed...†).

-Jacob

I tried that text with the Google language tools, and got this:

Special categories of Port wine White

The Wines of Porto may bear the words Reserve or an indication of age (10, 20, 30 or + 40 years) provided that completion of procedures included in the Regulations of the Port wine on this topic.

Although not 100% certain, I would read that as meaning 'yes, provided you make it according to the rule book'

So that's six varieties of white port to include.

Thanks Jacob

Tom

uncle tom wrote:So that's six varieties of white port to include.

Though we could be waiting quite some time before we see a 30 or 40+ year-old white! Indeed, I wonder how many shippers (including Niepoort) have stocks of older white Port to put into their blends? I suspect that most aged white Ports we will see in the immediate future will just be scraping past the age limits.

This may prove to be very challenging as the same wine can be sold under different descriptions in different markets. But I do think it is a good idea.

I think the producres will have fairly comprehensive data on this, it's just a matter of persuading them to spend a little time giving us it.

Oh but wait, I've got a fun one...
Quinta de Cabriz (Dão) "Colheita Seleccionada"
Here's a description

I've 2 bottles down in the basement and will open one soon. It's certainly nor port, but a bit confusing in name.

"Colheita" just means harvest (or vintage) in Portugese - it's not just a Port term. Colheita Seleccionada then means something along the lines of "harvest select" or "select vintage" and is probably the equivalent of a German Spaetlese or Auslese.

Would we want to make a distinction between filtered and unfiltered Ruby port?

Although a wine is sold under different names and descriptions, it is indeed a certain style of port that can be narrowed down if someone has tried. Special Reserve and Colheita are just Colheita for instance...

Not sure what the difference is from Ruby and Vintage Character?

We have to settle on "engraved in stone" categories for port first and combine the regional names.