ThePortForum.com

Posted: **18:27 Wed 06 Aug 2008**

(I looked through our back conversations for this, but finding nothing I figured I'd ask...)

What do you use to keep track of your port/wine collection? It's clearly important, as we don't want to go disturbing bottles as we search for the right one.

I looked at several, but in the end opted for expanding my excel spreadsheet. Here were my criteria:
1) Offline. I don't want to worry about a service going down or dealing with offers.
2) Data flexibility. I want to be able to import and export easily, and re-arrange to my tastes
3) Storage tracking. I need to know which bottles are where, ideally as a chart of the racks.
4) bottle-by-bottle tracking: I want to know which bottles I have, when i acquired them, for what price and from whom.
5) Tasting notes: Mine, and the reviewers.
6) Shopping Chart: In one glance, what I've got and what the rating is for anything on a retailer's shelf.

I looked at software, but anything under $30 was worthless and anything over that wasn't worth a bottle of port

. If anyone had suggestions, I'm still willing to try out software. Alternatively, if anyone wants the spreadsheet I'm happy to share. The trickiest part is the tasting notes, as excel isn't set up well for them, and the shopping chart as most of the ratings I have to enter individually. (This whole thing started as a giant exercise to tag my cellar, add more shelves, and generally get organized. I've a photo of some of that, coming soon)

Posted: **21:33 Wed 06 Aug 2008**

I've got a very long term project where I'm writing my own localized PC application using c# using all those pretty windows boxes, or maybe i'll do it in java.

I don';t know yet but I've got a data model written on a piece of paper and I have in mind the same concerns as you when thinking about this.

Posted: **22:09 Wed 06 Aug 2008**

probably the best program out there is called Cellar Tracker, its free or you can pay a little and get wine critics reviews. I think it is now the single largest database for peoples TN's inthe world. I've used it for several years and love it.

http://www.cellartracker.com

Posted: **01:45 Thu 07 Aug 2008**

I just use an Excel spreadsheet. I also have a CellarTracker account but fail miserably when it comes to keeping it up to date.

I don't really see the point in using complicated software for this unless you have a commercial cellar.

Derek

Posted: **02:54 Thu 07 Aug 2008**

Perhaps you could make it state side so we could argue the merits of having a sophisticated cellar application =)

Posted: **09:16 Thu 07 Aug 2008**

g-man wrote:Perhaps you could make it state side so we could argue the merits of having a sophisticated cellar application =)

That would have to involve the opening and drinking of a number of well documented bottles of port, obviously

Posted: **19:18 Thu 07 Aug 2008**

Someone did ask for this spreadsheet, btw, so I'm tuning it up to make it easier to share. Meanwhile, I mentioned this whole thing came about because of a cellar reorg... here I am somewhere in the midst of it (new shelves, some new bottles on the left, lots of tags, etc. There's another 35 bottles of port in the wine fridge (out of view), but together that's the cellar.

Posted: **07:35 Fri 08 Aug 2008**

Like Andy, I've been using CellarTracker for a couple of years now, and I'm very happy with it. It can give you just about any piece of information that you want, and it's very easy to maintain.

Posted: **14:44 Fri 08 Aug 2008**

I tend only to note what I’ve drunk, with any relevant TNs and ratings, rather than what’s currently in the cellar. I use an XML file which is then turned into a webpage with an XSL-style-sheet so I can consult it when I’m scratching my head, inside the wine merchant, trying to work out what I’ve had in the past and if it’s any good! I quite like this method as it means it’s easy to add extra elements (the equivalent of a spreadsheet column) for individual odd bottles, though getting everything to work nicely together took some time!

-Jacob

Posted: **23:15 Sat 09 Aug 2008**

CellarTracker is the best and most professional software for maintaining a wine cellar. Period. It has more bells and whistles than anybody could possibly conceive of using, but it is very simple for the person just looking for basic cellar management software. Disclosure: the inventor is a very close friend and in my STG tasting group. Nonetheless, with nearly 60,000 users storing almost 10 million bottles ... nothing even comes remotely close!

Posted: **17:56 Sun 10 Aug 2008**

I'm using Wine XT which is a nifty little program for the Mac.

Posted: **07:26 Mon 11 Aug 2008**

Rubby wrote:I'm using Wine XT which is a nifty little program for the Mac.

I tried that as well, but ended up liking CellarTracker better. But I agree it's a good program.

Posted: **09:50 Thu 28 Aug 2008**

I also use an Excel spreadsheet, but since I started loading pictures into the spreadsheet it has become quite large and slow to load and save. Soon, I am going to have to make a choice to either move to Cellar Tracker (which I like for the ability to access via the web) or to remove the pictures and store them separately.

But I don't have to decide just yet.

Posted: **11:44 Thu 28 Aug 2008**

I am doing nothing right now

I like the spreadsheet idea initally and then move to Cellar Tracker or something. I would like a web based solution as I keep wine in a couple of locations and want to have a single data source.

Port is coming and going so quick, I think my list would never be 100% acurate.

Posted: **17:54 Fri 29 Aug 2008**

looking through my mini fridges for the fonsecas for tasting the other day I was very much surprised to find ...
a Taylor 2003, a Taylor 77 and a Dow 94 that I totally forgot about!!!!

Decanting the taylor 77 tongiht!

Posted: **22:41 Fri 29 Aug 2008**

g-man wrote:looking through my mini fridges for the fonsecas for tasting the other day I was very much surprised to find ...
a Taylor 2003, a Taylor 77 and a Dow 94 that I totally forgot about!!!!

Decanting the taylor 77 tonight!

I love little surprises like that! That's why, despite tracking my port on a spreadsheet, I still carry out a stocktake once a year or so.

Posted: **23:15 Fri 29 Aug 2008**

AHB wrote:I love little surprises like that! That's why, despite tracking my port on a spreadsheet, I still carry out a stocktake once a year or so.

Following two instances in which AHB, allowed in my father’s cellar without my close supervision, failed to find what should have been there, I too did a stock take. Nine bottles of Cockburn 1970, said my spreadsheet. Three were in the rack. “Someone’s been eating my porridge†, growled the Papa bear. Thinks: I bought 17 at that auction, and 2 at that auction, and a single or two in mixed lots. We drank six on such-and-such a date, and eight a year later. And a few singles here and there. Nine is starting to sound optimistic.

Alas all such surprises were of the non-good variety. C’est la vie.

Posted: **00:24 Sat 30 Aug 2008**

Heh, i find the trouble is not remembering to add them to the list, it's remembering (in either inebriated or hungover state) to take them off!

Posted: **21:56 Sun 31 Aug 2008**

I think there are two philosophies to choose from here.

1) Stock manage perfectly, and know exactly what you have and where it is.

2) Buy when the whim to do so inspires you, stow the bottles safely and forget all about them. Then, years later, when browsing for a bottle to drink, discover them afresh to your pleasant surprise.

Option 1) is the choice of the cold, computer assisted, (but cellar limited..) age

Option 2) enjoys a little old word romance, but is intrinsically chaotic!

I must admit that option 2) used to be my preferred way; but was abandoned when i kept finding that after taking home a litle stash, my pleasure was dashed by the discovery that I had already bought the same wine some time before, and had clean forgotton about it...

I now give every bottle a neck tag (a cut down luggage tag) which I find usually holds secure after two half-hitches, but is infallible if given three..

Each tag carries a three digit number followed by a letter. The number is the case number, the letter represents the bottle in the case. If I only bought one bottle of a wine, I still allocate a case number, and the letter will be 'A'

Each rack in my cellar is given a number, each column in that rack is given a letter, and each row in the rack is given a number. This gives me a reference.

Each case gets a line on my main stock database, and each line links to a separate 'case notes' file, derived from a template

On my main stock database, the date of purchase, source, date, shipper, type, format, vintage, quantity, quantity consumed, price and storage location are recorded. Detail regarding condition, levels and drinking history are recorded on the case notes file.

Thus the most recent addition to my cellar records were two bottles.

The main database notes that they were purchased from Christies on July 14th. they were Warre vintage port bottles from 1963, and that the two of them cost me £70. They have been stored in rack 7, column D, rows 17-18 (07D17)

In the case notes file is recorded that they were English bottled by Berry Bros, have only neck tags to confirm identification, and were part of a mixed lot with cost apportioned.

Within the case notes file, each bottle has a dedicated line, which at this point notes the levels to be IN (both of them) and the last date of inspection (31/08/2008) Space is provided for tasting notes to be recorded for each bottle.

Simple!

Tom

Posted: **01:16 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

uncle tom wrote:I must admit that option 2) used to be my preferred way; but was abandoned when i kept finding that after taking home a litle stash, my pleasure was dashed by the discovery that I had already bought the same wine some time before, and had clean forgotton about it...

That's what did it for me.

uncle tom wrote:I now give every bottle a neck tag (a cut down luggage tag) ...Each tag carries a three digit number followed by a letter. The number is the case number, the letter represents the bottle in the case.

I understand the logic in this (batching the bottles that came together into a "case") but for me I skip that level of distinction, each bottle gets a row. I use inexpensive manila stockcard tags, prestrung, that I purchase at a local office supply store (Staples). I record House, SQVP or type (where applicable), vintage, purchase date, purchase store, store location (city/state/country), and price paid (before tax).
The same data is recorded into the spreadsheet, along with rack cluster, rack name, and slot number: RShelves-3Front-5.
I don't use ID numbers for the bottles, though I'd considered it, since the tags are detailed and I keep the location synchronized enough that it becomes a unique ID.

And you'll all be happy to know that my recent acquisitions included one more Graham's 80 (to make 3), and Graham's 83 for the upcoming offline

Posted: **01:24 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

i guess it also depends on the size of the cellar, I've got a miniscule 200 bottles that warrants the pleasure of finding forgotten treasures =)

Posted: **08:44 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

and price paid (before tax).

Why do you Americans have such a hatred of tax inclusive prices?

You go to the US, buy something that has a nice round price tag, and then get a few percent of sales tax added that leaves you with a pocket full of change..

..the reason why is probably related to the reason for having a 10c coin that is half the size of the 5c...

Tom

Posted: **21:21 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

uncle tom wrote: ..the reason why is probably related to the reason for having a 10c coin that is half the size of the 5c...

...and we have a 5p that is about one quarter the size of a 2p

Posted: **22:09 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

At least we don't have that huge VAT. My tax is only 8.25% or 7.75% depending on what side of the County line I buy on.

Still havn't figured out why we have a penny these days...totally annoying when i have a pocket full of them.

Posted: **22:23 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

Andy V wrote:Still havn't figured out why we have a penny these days...totally annoying when i have a pocket full of them.

Put 300 of them in a sock and take it with you the next time you meet some bad guys at 3am

Posted: **22:30 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

DRT wrote:
Andy V wrote:Still havn't figured out why we have a penny these days...totally annoying when i have a pocket full of them.
Put 300 of them in a sock and take it with you the next time you meet some bad guys at 3am

On that note, i once got called to a small market where the clerk was upset because some guy put down about 500 pennies to pay for an item. The clerk didn't want to count them, and the guy had no other cash and didn't want to put back the food....so a little arguement ensued and I was summoned there. The clerk didn't like me...told him it was legal cash and he HAD to accept it. That was a lot of counting for him

Posted: **22:38 Mon 01 Sep 2008**

Wikipedia’s article on Legal Tender wrote:In the United Kingdom
…
Currently, 20 pence pieces, 25 pence coins (although many retail outlets do not recognise or accept this) and 50 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 10 pounds; 5 pence pieces and 10 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 5 pounds; and 1 penny pieces and 2 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 20 pence.[4]

Posted: **09:08 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

Still havn't figured out why we have a penny these days...totally annoying when i have a pocket full of them.

There is a good argument for abolishing copper coinage on both sides of the pond.

Here the 1p coin is now easily the most worthless we have ever had, even though it is worth nearly 2 US cents. We could easily live without anything smaller than a 5p.

I find it interesting to note the way the American public have virtually abandoned the 50c coin. The european tradition of issuing currency with three denominations for each order of magnitude; half-one-two seems unnecessary, and a two stage quarter-one provision, seems more in tune with everyday needs.

In the UK, the 20p and 50p could be replaced by a new 25p; a new 'half crown' (£2.50) could replace both the £2 coin and scruffy £5 note, and a £25 note could replace both the £20 and unloved £50. There is no need for larger denominations.

With the removal of the 1p and 2p, that would leave us with a tidy currency of just five coins and two notes, compared to the ludicrous fifteen denomination eurozone arrangement, complete with coins that are tiresomely similar to each other, and big value notes that no small retailer could contemplate carrying change for.

- just my 2c (or 1.79p - and falling...)

Tom

Posted: **13:45 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

I've heard from a fellow currency trader once that the only useful purpose of the 500 Euro bill was to .... trade guns .... and deposit the gun money into banks.
and you guys need a 1 £ note. Certain types of clubs forbid throwing heavy coins and a 5£ note is clearly too pricey for what it's worth.

Posted: **14:07 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

If you go back and read the consultation documents put out by the European Monetary Institute (precursor of ECB), the large EUR notes are there because there are large CHF notes, and the ECB wanted large cash transactions to be in Euro. They came very close to explicitly wanting the criminal business.

Meanwhile, the largest sterling note is £1,000,000·00. Yes, a million pound note. I have held one.

Posted: **14:25 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

£1,000,000·00 note wasn't that a movie with gregory peck?

Posted: **17:13 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

jdaw1 wrote:If you go back and read the consultation documents put out by the European Monetary Institute (precursor of ECB), the large EUR notes are there because there are large CHF notes, and the ECB wanted large cash transactions to be in Euro. They came very close to explicitly wanting the criminal business.

Meanwhile, the largest sterling note is £1,000,000·00. Yes, a million pound note. I have held one.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknote ... _notes.htm

off by a few zeros =)

£100,000,000·00 - the Titan

Posted: **18:18 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

Oh, they do hundreds now. That’s new. The one million pound notes, for what it’s worth, were printed in plain black on one side of A5 paper. No colour, no watermark, no hologram, nothing.

Posted: **18:36 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

The one million pound notes, for what it’s worth, were printed in plain black on one side of A5 paper. No colour, no watermark, no hologram, nothing.

They were also de-monetarised a long time ago - I think there are still some some £1,000 pound notes around that the Bank of England would exchange for new notes, if asked..

..many years ago, I found half a dozen scruffy, out of date pound notes, and used them as an excuse to walk into the Bank of England to change them..

Through the great Iron-clad doors, past the pink uniformed footmen, to a clerk with slicked hair hovering behind a polished lectern - a total time-warp.

He politely directed me to a large polished oak door on the left, behind which lay a room decked out like an ordinary high street bank. The rather bored looking teller cheerfully changed my notes for brand spanking new ones..

Tom

Posted: **18:50 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

No. The million pound notes are absolutely not demonetised.

As the non-Brits might not know, some Scottish and Northern Irish banks have an ancient right to issue their own banknotes (this goes back to the days of “Free banking†, another subject). But since the 1844 Act they must hold Bank of England notes against their own issue. But the Bank of England doesn’t want to go to the cost of printing huge numbers of expensive notes (holograms, security features, and all) for these to sit unseen in a vault. So the BoE banknotes owned by the Scottish banks are the Giants and Titans: they exist to satisfy a legal nicety, and never leave the premises of the Bank of England.

Are we off-topic yet?

Posted: **23:12 Tue 02 Sep 2008**

jdaw1 wrote: some Scottish and Northern Irish banks have an ancient right to issue their own banknotes (this goes back to the days of “Free banking†, another subject). But since the 1844 Act they must hold Bank of England notes against their own issue. But the Bank of England doesn’t want to go to the cost of printing huge numbers of expensive notes (holograms, security features, and all) for these to sit unseen in a vault. So the BoE banknotes owned by the Scottish banks are the Giants and Titans: they exist to satisfy a legal nicety, and never leave the premises of the Bank of England.

This reminds me of a question I meant to ask a few weeks ago. Why is the team we send to the Olympic Games named "Great Britain" or "Team GB"? Should it not be "United Kingdom", thereby including the Northern Irish (which I think it does)?

jdaw1 wrote:Are we off-topic yet?

Nearly.

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