Pointless Statistics

Anything to do with Port.
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Chris Doty
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Chris Doty »

AHB wrote: 17:53 Tue 05 Jan 2021 24 bottles of South African fortified
What were you on, and can you get me some?! :nirvana:
Justin K
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Justin K »

Thanks Alex for the template; I have never had the time to analyse my stocks but this is the year. The big change for me over last year is that most of my claret and some of my older ports have gone to new homes where I hope they will be very happy!

At the end of 2020, I had a cellar which was composed of:
72.46% Port (64.20% last year)
2.58% Bordeaux (11.43%)
3.10% Italy (3.70%)
7.06% Spirits (5.55%)
14.80%(15.12) Others including Lebanon, Australia, USA, Spain, Germany, France and Portugal.

1920's, 30's & 40's 1.20% (0.79%)
1950's 1.44% (6.07%)
1960's 9.33% (13.19%)
1970's 9.09% (16.09%)
1980's 11.72% (13.19%)
1990's 11.24% (12.93%)
2000's 33.73% (23.22%)
2010's 22.25% (14.51%)

Dow 14.59% (15.04%);
M&S 11.00% (2.11%)
Fonseca 10.29% (11.35%);
Taylor 10.05% (13.46%);
Sainsbury's 10.05% (0.26%)
Cockburn's 7.18% (13.72%)
Sandeman's 6.70% (7.65%)
Graham 5.74% (3.17%);
Delaforce 5.50% (6.07%)
Warre 4.31% (5.54%);
Maynards 2.87% (3.43%)
Vesuvio 2.87% (3.17%);

No other shipper reaches 2.0%.

I have 84 (88) different ports from 44 (43) different vintages.

The oldest Port added to the cellar this year was from 1927 (1963) and the youngest from 2011 (2011).

Using the 21 year rule, 65.79% (62.27%) of my Port is ready for drinking, and using the 30 year rule it is 35.65% (49.34%).

The average age of the Port in my cellar is 27years and 241 days (33 years, 230 days).

85.98% (83.76%) of the undrawn Port corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 13.54% (15.45%) in smaller format and 0.48% (0.79%) in magnum or larger format.

73.40% (73.30%) of the containers hold Vintage Port, 22.80% (21.47%) hold Single Quinta Vintage Port, 3.80% (5.50%) hold others in cluding Tawnies, Colheitas, Crusted and LBV's.

10.05% (1.06%) of my port is from the 2011 vintage with another 4.31% (10.55%) from 1970; 21.77% (16.09%) is from 2000.

I don't have enough half bottles!!!!
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

Justin K wrote: 18:55 Thu 07 Jan 20211920's, 30's & 40's 1.20% (0.79%)
1950's 1.44% (6.07%)
1960's 9.33% (13.19%)
1970's 9.09% (16.09%)
1980's 11.72% (13.19%)
1990's 11.24% (12.93%)
2000's 33.73% (23.22%)
2010's 22.25% (14.51%)

Dow 14.59% (15.04%);
M&S 11.00% (2.11%)
Fonseca 10.29% (11.35%);
Taylor 10.05% (13.46%);
Sainsbury's 10.05% (0.26%)
Cockburn's 7.18% (13.72%)
Sandeman's 6.70% (7.65%)
Graham 5.74% (3.17%);
Delaforce 5.50% (6.07%)
Warre 4.31% (5.54%);
Maynards 2.87% (3.43%)
Vesuvio 2.87% (3.17%)
Hence the number of bottles of Port you have is either a multiple of 418, or is ≥4984.
winesecretary
Fonseca 1980
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by winesecretary »

The above post illustrating the terrifying mathematical ability of a number of portforumites [I do not consider myself to be one of that subgroup, although unlike most lawyers I am not scared of numbers] and which is one of the reasons that I slightly fuzz my stats. The great thing about this thread is that everyone slices and dices slightly differently: it reflects the heterogeneity of the human race's perception of reality [port-collecting sub-set, anyway].
Justin K
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Justin K »

Julian never ask a lady her age, a farmer his/her acreage and a port nerd his/her bottle total! Having said that I salute you, 418 is dead on, I reckon the Magnum total gives it away.
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

Justin K wrote: 23:07 Sat 09 Jan 2021Julian never ask a lady her age, a farmer his/her acreage and a port nerd his/her bottle total! Having said that I salute you, 418 is dead on, I reckon the Magnum total gives it away.
Using only the quoted data, two decimal places of percentages was enough to narrow it down for ‘small’ bottle quantities.

And I didn’t ask.
CPR 1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by CPR 1 »

Ok then here goes I missed last year, but here are my pointless stats as at 31st Dec 2020

For the first time ever I own less port at the end of the year than I did at the start! Despite that I have added 31 new ports to the cellar this year.

I have drunk from my cellar 31 different vintages in 2020, with 1977 being drunk the most often at 11% followed by a tie between 1994 and 1970 9% each. 1940 was the oldest and 2018 the youngest vintage I have drunk from my cellar in the last year.

Of the Port I drunk in 2020 12% by volume of was shipped by Graham, 11% was by Warre and 9% by Taylor. I have drunk more Tawny/Colheita than in previous years at 8%

As at the end of 2020 the shippers in my cellar are:

Fonseca 13% (10% 2018)
Taylor 13% (10%)
Graham 12% (11%)
Warre 10% (10%)
Dow 9% (9%)
Vesuvio 6%

With the vintages being led by 1977 13% (11%), 2011 9% (10%) and 1994 7% (9%)

I find that 43% of the Port in the cellar by volume is > 30 years old and 58% of the Port > 21 years old (60%)

By volume 8% is in 1/2 bottles, and 8% is in magnum or larger

3% is LBV, 14% is SQVP and 82% is VP (including Noval and Vesuvio)

I do own some other wines, mainly Bordeaux and a little Burgundy but don't keep track of them. An informed guess says Port makes up 85% of my cellar.
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

winesecretary wrote: 21:56 Sat 09 Jan 2021mathematical
Not really maths, merely repeated basic repeated arithmetic as done by a simple spreadsheet.
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

Whilst I have never previously kept a record of the Port I own (not least because it is scattered over a few different places), a bit of sorting today allowed me to do some basic statistics.

It looks like my top shippers are Niepoort, Graham, Taylor and Croft. Croft’s place rather surprised me: it turns out I keeping buying the Quinta da Roêda SQVP and forgetting that I own it! Also, it seems like whilst I used to have a lot of Quevedo, I have drunk most of it.

Another pointless statistic which hasn’t been covered yet is Ports which one doesn’t own. Whilst this may appear excessively pointless—due to its near-unlimited nature—I did think when looking through my notes that there were a few shippers which I don’t currently own any Ports from but which I feel I would like to have available should I feel in the mood to open one. The ones that I particularly noticed for me were Ferreira; Gould Campbell; Offley; and Quarles Harris; and I am going to start looking out for a few odd bottles of each so I have some.

Does anyone else have any “gaps” which they are attempting to fill?
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winesecretary
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by winesecretary »

@ JacobH - the port one doesn't own: good question! To which each of us will have a unique answer. Because, depending on which way you slice and dice it, we all have gaps. For example I:

- have a specific list of ports (6) of which I own none but think I ought to own a reasonable amount (say a half case to a case of each);
- am generally underweight 1966 and 1977; and
- considering what I drink, as opposed to what I own, am underweight Warre, Dow, and Niepoort (in that order).

But of the 160 different ports I possess none are Ferreira because, despite a fair bit of sampling over the past three decades, I have never had the fortune to have a bottle which really excited me.
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

winesecretary wrote: 23:38 Sun 24 Jan 2021 @ JacobH - the port one doesn't own: good question! To which each of us will have a unique answer. Because, depending on which way you slice and dice it, we all have gaps. For example I:

- have a specific list of ports (6) of which I own none but think I ought to own a reasonable amount (say a half case to a case of each);
- am generally underweight 1966 and 1977; and
- considering what I drink, as opposed to what I own, am underweight Warre, Dow, and Niepoort (in that order).

But of the 160 different ports I possess none are Ferreira because, despite a fair bit of sampling over the past three decades, I have never had the fortune to have a bottle which really excited me.
Thinking about Ports which I don’t own but would like to, made me think about about why I buy certain Ports more generally. Especially in light of your comment about Ferreira.

As a starting point, I fully accept that if I just wanted to drink good quality and good value Ports, I could quite happily sell almost everything I own and replace it with a very small number of different Ports. Probably an LBV for everyday drinking (e.g. the Graham 2015); one maturing VP from the 1980s (undecided); one mature VP (Graham 1970); a 20 year-old-tawny (Kranemann); and a white (Quinta de Pedra Alta). That would keep me happy for at least 5 years before I would need to renew. I don’t even think that then I would need to try lots of different Ports on renewal: I’ve got a good sense of what I like and which critics whose judgement I trust.

So clearly, when I am buying Port, it isn’t just because I want it to be objectively good or good value. I must buy some thinking that they may only be moderately good. Or even mediocre.

That said, I don’t think I actively “collect” Port in the sense of JKristiansen having one of each of the Graham Single Tawnies or the people who try to have a complete run of Vesuvios. Nor do I even feel a need to have a decent “library” of every vintage. It’s much more vague that I like to have a selection of different Ports. Some familiar, some not. Some likely to be good, some not. Some unusual, some very commercial. And I suppose Ferreira fits into that.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I was browsing my cellar list this evening, very proud of the fact that I own 13 bottles fewer today than I did on 31st December. Despte Zak's attempts to make me fall off the wagon with illusions of cheap Dow 1994, I have managed to not buy any Port at all this year - so far.

I was also quite surprised to find that the single Port I own most of is now Sainsbury Taste the Difference 2003. I'm not complaining, you understand, just expressing mild surprise. But it is an absolutely delicious Port so my main problem is no worse than to have to overcome the feeling of contentment this discovery brought about.

Like Jacob, I enjoy drinking a variety of Port. I can't drink Croft 1945 every night, and I'm not sure I would want to despite the fact that it is an amazing wine. I really enjoy the contrast - Croft 1945 one night, Fonseca 2017 the next, Lamelas 10 year old white the night after, Graham 2015 LBV and so on. The variety really brings out my enjoyment of the contrast in styles, in years, in the wine-maker's interpretation of what nature gives them.

I have lots of gaps in my cellar, but I'm generally happy with them. I have and will continue to build verticals of Vesuvio and AXA-owned Noval but generally try to buy as little as my obsessive-compulsive Port disorder will allow.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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uncle tom
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

very proud of the fact that I own 13 bottles fewer today than I did on 31st December
I am six bottles up :roll: - for January I am on course for 11 drunk, none sold, and 17 bought (all LBV)
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

JacobH wrote: 16:57 Sun 24 Jan 2021Another pointless statistic which hasn’t been covered yet is Ports which one doesn’t own. Whilst this may appear excessively pointless—due to its near-unlimited nature—I did think when looking through my notes that there were a few shippers which I don’t currently own any Ports from but which I feel I would like to have available should I feel in the mood to open one. The ones that I particularly noticed for me were Ferreira; Gould Campbell; Offley; and Quarles Harris; and I am going to start looking out for a few odd bottles of each so I have some.
A bit more sorting at one of the other locations turned up a rather large number of odd bottles which I didn’t know I had. Half bottle of 1992 Churchill’s LBV for example, and what I think is a bottle of Quinta da Romaneira LBV from the 1980s...

In happier news, though, I found that I owned a single bottle of 1963 Offley so I can cross that one off the collecting list, too! Just need to buy some Ferreira now...
Last edited by JacobH on 11:17 Fri 12 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.
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uncle tom
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

In happier news, though, I found that I owned a single bottle of 1963 Offley so I can cross that one off the collecting list, too! Just need to buy some Ferreira now...
Whilst you were dormant on this forum we acquired and divvied up a large stash of magnums of O63. The labels came separately, original and never affixed. If your bottle lacks a label, I have a few spares..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

Since it looks like this, a label would be very much appreciated the next time we meet in person! Thank you very much!Image
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uncle tom
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

PM me your address and I'll pop one in the post..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

Thank you very much. Will do!
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JacobH
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JacobH »

Thanks very much to Tom- a huge improvement in appearance!
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

The end of the year prompts yet more pointless statistics. The joy of being in self-isolation / lockdown / with family drives me to hide away with my spreadsheets...

At the end of 2021, I had a cellar which was composed of:
86.8% Port (87.9% last year; 82% in December 2008 when I first spent my time pointlessly)
3.5% Bordeaux (3.6%)
1.8% South African (1.9%)
1.3% Portugal (0.7%)
1.2% Australian (0.7%)
1.2% Italy (less than 0.5% last year)
1.0% Champagne (1.2%)
0.9% Spain (1.0%)
0.7% England (0.5%)
0.6% Lebanon (less than 0.5% last year)
1.0% Other (2.5%), each less than 0.5% individually (including Hungary, US, NZ, Chile and other regions in France).

The oldest Port added to the cellar last year was from 1851 (1854) and the youngest from 2019 (2018). The most purchased Port vintage last year was 2018, then 1994 (2018, then 1966).

Using the 21 year rule, 66% (67%) of my Port is ready for drinking, and using the 30 year rule it is 49% (44%).

The average age of the Port in my cellar is 37 years and 97 days (36 years, 167 days).

89% (88%) of the undrawn Port corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 8% (8%) in smaller format and 3% (4%) in magnum or larger format.

65% (65%) of the containers hold Vintage Port (which includes Quinta do Noval but excludes Quinta do Vesuvio), 25% (26%) hold Single Quinta Vintage Port (including Quinta do Vesuvio), 4% (4%) hold LBV, 1% (1%) hold Crusted and 5% (4%) hold other stuff.

The shippers making up the largest share of my Port cellar are Quinta do Vesuvio 13% (14%), Graham 10% (9%) and Fonseca 7% (7%).

Looking only at the Port ready for drinking (at 21 years) the picture changes slightly to be Vesuvio 10% (11%), Graham 9% (8%) and Fonseca 9% (9%).

7% (7%) of my port is from the 2011 vintage with another 7% (6%) from 1994; 7% (7%) is from 1963.

I have 728 (671) different Ports in my cellar.

109 corks came out of my cellar in 2021. The shippers most often withdrawn were Churchill 15 (11) and Morrison's 10YO Tawny 10 (8); 7 bottles of each of Fonseca, Graham, Quevedo, Quinta das Lamelas and Taylor were also taken out of the cellar last year. The vintages which came out most often were 1963 x9, 1977 x4 and 1985 x4. (2020: 1963 x 11, 1920 x 7, 1977 x 6). 40 non-vintage wines were also drunk.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
winesecretary
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by winesecretary »

As at 31/12/2021 my cellar comprised the following (with end 2020 figures in brackets):

Unfortified 39.6% (44.7%);
Fortified 60.3% (54.6%); and
Spirits 0.1% (0.6%)

29.5% (34.4%) of my cellar is Burgundy (i.e. 74.5% (69.8%) of unfortified wine) 2.9% (2.1%) is Bordeaux. Of my unfortified wine no other region or country reaches even 1% of the total.

Fortified wine, as a percentage of the whole cellar, breaks down as follows:

Port 54.6% (49.5%) - I have been drinking some but buying more;
Madeira 5.0% (3.6%) - I have not been buying much but drinking less;
Sherry 0.6% (1.0%) - quite a lot comes in and goes out during the year though as it is mainly bought to drink; and
Other fortified 0.2% (0.2%)

Of my fortified wine, port thus makes up 90.4% (91.7%).

Considering solely the port:

8.9% (10.9%) is SQVP;
86.1% (85.7%) is VP (including Vesuvio); and
6.0% (4.4%) is other types of port.

6.2% (5.9%) (by volume) of my port is in halves, and 93.6 (93.9%) in bottles.

Using the 21 year rule, 54.06% (58.6%) of my port is ready for drinking. Using the 30 year rule this percentage falls to 25.49% (22.1%).

By decade, my vintage-dated port stocks break down as follows:

2010s 26.5% (20.8%);
2000s 29.2% (30.0%);
1990s 21.7% (23.5%);
1980s 13.3% (12.4%);
1970s 8.1% (7.7%);
1960s 1.3% (0.8%); and
1950s 0.0% (0.4%).

By shipper the percentages are as follows.

Niepoort 12.7% (12.2%);
Taylor 11.5% (9.8%);
Fonseca 10.3% (9.3%);
Warre 9.9% (9.3%);
M&S 7.9% (9.5%);
Graham 6.8% (7.1%);
Vesuvio 5.5% (5.0%);
Dow 5.0% (6.7%);
Croft 3.8% (3.8%);
Churchill 3.1% (4.0%);
Gould Campbell 2.7% (3.3%);
Sainsbury's 2.4% (3.6%); and
Offley 2.4% (>2%)

No other shipper reaches 2.0%.

I have 161 (160) different ports from 37 (44) different vintages.

2021 was my best ever year of port in quality terms, with almost all of the very best (G20, T20, W22, T45 (twice), McK48, G55, McK55, Mz55 (twice), W55, W60) generously poured from the cellars of others of this group. Santé!
Justin K
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Justin K »

At the end of 2021, I had a cellar which was composed of:
72.47% Port (72.46% last year)
3.42% Bordeaux (2.58%)
2.80% Italy (3.10)
14.93% Spirits (7.06%)
6.38%(15.12) Others including Lebanon, Australia, USA, Spain, Germany, France and Portugal.

1920's, 30's & 40's 1.10% (1.20%)
1950's 1.32% (1.44%)
1960's 8.37% (9.33%)
1970's 9.69% (9.09%)
1980's 11.89% (11.72%)
1990's 9.91% (11.24%)
2000's 32.38% (33.73%)
2010's 25.34% (22.25%)

Dow 13.73% (14.59%)
M&S 10.09% (11.00%)
Fonseca .23% (10.29%)
Taylor 12.02% (10.05%)
Sainsbury's 9.01% (10.05%)
Cockburn's 6.44% (7.18%)
Sandeman's 5.79% (6.70%)
Graham 7.51% (5.74%)
Delaforce 4.94% (5.50%)
Warre 3.65% (4.31%)
Maynards/Fletchers 2.58% (2.87%)
Vesuvio 2.58% (2.87%)
Churchill's 3.00% (0.00%)
Noval 2.15% (1.90%)

No other shipper reaches 2.0%.

I have 115 (84) different ports from 45 (44) different vintages.

The oldest Port added to the cellar this year was from 1961 (1927) and the youngest from 2017 (2011).

Using the 21 year rule, 63.22% (65.79%) of my Port is ready for drinking, and using the 30 year rule it is 35.46% (35.65%).

The average age of the Port in my cellar is 27years and 193 days (27 years, 241 days).

86.70% (85.98%) of the undrawn Port corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 12.87% (13.54%) in smaller format and 0.43% (0.48%) in magnum or larger format.

66.74% (73.40%) of the containers hold Vintage Port, 23.39% (22.80%) hold Single Quinta Vintage Port, 9.87% (3.80%) hold others in cluding Tawnies, Colheitas, Crusted and LBV's.

19.82% (21.77%) is from 2000; 10.57% (11.48%) of my Port is from the 2012 vintage with another 9.03% (10.05%) from 2011; 7.27%(6.70%) from 1985; 5.29% (6.70%) from 1994; 4.41% (3.35%) from 1977: 3.74% (4.31%) from 1970.

After another 12 months I still don't have enough half bottles (help is required)!!!!

Julian give your brain a rest!
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

You have made some calculation errors. Despite which, I believe I know how many.
PhilW
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PhilW »

jdaw1 wrote: 23:23 Tue 11 Jan 2022 You have made some calculation errors. Despite which, I believe I know how many.
Ditto. I do love the pointless stats though, so let's not put people off posting them (but perhaps advise them to use fewer decimal places if they want to retain their privacy from simple reversing).

edit: less changed to fewer per pedantic correction (grumble programmer maths < 2 is "less than two" grumble)
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

Fewer.
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