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While Derek and Julian beaver away on the ultimate directory of vintage ports - (have you reached 2000 yet?) - I thought I would get to grips with the lesser ageable wines, which are all too easily forgotton with the passage of time.

To kick off on the unfiltered LBV front, I thought I'd start by putting together a list of known producers, and then later fleshing it out with the known bottling years.

By way of definition, I do not propose to include vintage port that was accidentally bottled late, or those wines that meet the definition of LBV, but were marketed as Crusted port.

The following is an incomplete list of producers, which I will edit as information is received:

Andresen
Baldias
Churchill
Crasto
Croft
Ferreira
Fonseca
Gaivosa
Infantado
Javali
Krohn
Morgadio da Calcada
Niepoort
Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carno
Noval
Offley
Osborne
Pacheca
Passadouro
Peca
Pocas
Prelada
Ramos Pinto
de la Rosa
Roseira & Rico
Rozes
Seara d'Ordens
Smith Woodhouse
Tedo
Vale Dona Maria
Ventozelo
Vista Alegre
Warre

All (I think) are currently producing unfiltered LBV's, but some only converted to the cause in recent years.

If people could let me know of other producers, and the years they know to have been bottled for the producers above, some sort of database can take shape.

Tom

I have some unfiltered LBV produced by Croft. I can also confirm that Vale Dona Maria produce unfiltered LBV as I have drunk their 2002.

I was pretty sure that VDM's LBV was unfiltered, but couldn't find it in writing anywhere

Ta.

I’ve had the Infantado LBV which, according to my notes was unfiltered.

Thanks Jacob

Does anyone know when Fonseca first made an unfiltered LBV?

I've found thumbnail pictures of their LBV's back to '97, but can't see the label text well enough to see if the words 'unfiltered' or 'traditional' are on there. Neither their website nor any of the merchants make it clear if the wines are filtered or not.

Tom

uncle tom wrote:Does anyone know when Fonseca first made an unfiltered LBV?

I've found thumbnail pictures of their LBV's back to '97, but can't see the label text well enough to see if the words 'unfiltered' or 'traditional' are on there. Neither their website nor any of the merchants make it clear if the wines are filtered or not.

Drop an email to Metzendorff and see if they are able to help you.

Krohn

Added - thanks

Another bunch:

Burmester
Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo
Quinta do Passadouro
Quinta do Javali
Roseira & Rico (RolRoi) (Sometimes released as LBV, sometimes ruby reserve, but basically the same)
Quinta de Baldias
Quinta da Prelada
Quinta da Peça
Quinta de Ventozelo
Morgadio da Calçada (made by Niepoort)
Quinta da Seara d'Ordens
Quinta da Gaivosa (Domingo Alves de Sousa)
Quinta da Pacheca
Vista Alegre (although I'm not sure it's unfiltered)

And I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

uncle tom wrote:While Derek and Julian beaver away on the ultimate directory of vintage ports - (have you reached 2000 yet?) - I thought I would get to grips with the lesser ageable wines, which are all too easily forgotton with the passage of time.

Excellent idea, Tom. Can I suggest that you hook up with Julian and use the official names from the outset to allow easier linkage of the data sets and the TN Index in the fullness of time.

So, who's going to do the database of Colheita's?

I would volunteer for the Colheita database, since Colheitas are not too common in the UK anyways.

Axel

DRT wrote:So, who's going to do the database of Colheita's?

If it would help, I'd be happy to do the database of Garrafeiras

Nothing like looking for the soft option eh Jacob?

It would probably make sense for Garrafeiras to be a subset of the Colheita database, there being so few of them.

If you feel like taking on a challenge, listing the brand names of the standard and reserve ports, and researching to find the year they were first launched, would be a worthwhile exercise.

For example, everyone has heard of Warre's Warrior, but does anyone have a clue when it was first produced?

Tom

uncle tom wrote:
For example, everyone has heard of Warre's Warrior, but does anyone have a clue when it was first produced?

Tom

Yes, since the 1750's...it's the oldest brand of Port still continuesly shipped.

Andy,

Tom doesn't read the homepage and is not a subscriber to the newsletter, so I am sure he didn't see that tidbit. But I bet he was impressed when you knew that answer!

Now then Roy - spoiling Andy's little moment of glory..

JacobH wrote:

DRT wrote:So, who's going to do the database of Colheita's?

If it would help, I'd be happy to do the database of Garrafeiras

As far as I know true Garrafeiras (i.e. those shipped since it became a recognised style) have only been produced by Niepoort and they have already given me the full list

Jacob, as a penance for trying to take the easy option you now have the task of gathering together as mouch information as you can about the various brand names used by the shippers for their standard and premium ruby, tawny and white ports over the past 150 years.

uncle tom wrote:Now then Roy - spoiling Andy's little moment of glory..

Naw, I cheated and went to their website

DRT wrote:

JacobH wrote:

DRT wrote:
Jacob, as a penance for trying to take the easy option you now have the task of gathering together as mouch information as you can about the various brand names used by the shippers for their standard and premium ruby, tawny and white ports over the past 150 years.

OUCH!!! thats cruel and unusual punishment. Especally since in the early to mid 1900's many used labels such as "porto nedy", Feuerheerd's "One Grape Port", Cockburn's "Dry Tang", Robertson's "Dry Humor", and Niepoort's "Medium Tawny"

DRT wrote:... have only been produced by Niepoort and they have already given me the full list

Which, as you might recall, wasn't accurate!

Quinta do Portal
Quinta Estanho
Messias
Borges

Feist
Graham
Kopke

Pego

I think this thread would be more helpful if we differentiate the Producers into two parts:

The first part who only produce unfiltered LBVs and the other to produce both.

Axel

Graham?

- Are you sure??

They are mega big on the filtered front, but I have have never seen an unfiltered LBV..

Tom

Me neithter.

Axel

uncle tom wrote:Graham?

- Are you sure??

They are mega big on the filtered front, but I have have never seen an unfiltered LBV..

Tom

But they don't filter their Six Grapes

Hmm... After you asked, im not sure - sorry

RonnieRoots wrote:Another bunch:

Burmester
Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo
Quinta do Passadouro
Quinta do Javali
Roseira & Rico (RolRoi) (Sometimes released as LBV, sometimes ruby reserve, but basically the same)
Quinta de Baldias
Quinta da Prelada
Quinta da Peça
Quinta de Ventozelo
Morgadio da Calçada (made by Niepoort)
Quinta da Seara d'Ordens
Quinta da Gaivosa (Domingo Alves de Sousa)
Quinta da Pacheca
Vista Alegre (although I'm not sure it's unfiltered)

And I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Wow, great to see that my good friend Ronnie is in good shape!

Just a small detail Roseira and Ricou is doing either RolRoi (Ruby Reserve) or a Vintage called Torga; They have never made a LBV
Vista Alegre LBVs are normally unfiltered;

Also to add to the list:

Calém
Dalva
Quinta do Estanho
Quinta de Santa Eufémia
Quinta dos Eirados
Casa de Santa Eufémia
Quinta da Casa Amarela
Casal dos Jordões
Quinta dos Murças
Quinta de Marrocos
Quinta da Costa de Baixo
Quinta de Vale d'Agostinho
Quevedo
Quinta da Revolta
Conceito (soon)
São Pedro das Águias
Quinta do Pégo
Quinta do Castelinho
Magalhães/Quinta do Silval
Quinta da Romaneira
Quinta das Liceiras
Quinta do Portal
Valriz
Quinta da Senhora do Convento aka Herédias
Quinta Val de Figueira
Quinta da Colmaça


This is what my memory and palate still remembers but i'm sure thatare missing a couple of other more that I'm not remembering now as it's almost 1am! ahah

Yesterday, I've just met a new Port producer based in Lamego - Rio Bom right after Quinta da Casa Amarela:

Quinta das Lamelas owned by João Guedes- which is also producing a LBV 2005 Unfiltered among a 10y old white, Tawny 10,20,30 and 40y and also a 750 bottles limited edition of 2006 VP.

I've found the Croft unfiltered LBV, 2004 vintage bottled this year, in Tesco, in half bottles (excellently priced at £3.99). There is some fine sediment settled at the bottom, and it has more depth of flavour than the filtered varieties that I have had. However the bottles are closed with T type stoppers - a lot of literature suggests that unfiltered LBVs have driven corks. My question is - would the combination of stopper and half bottle compromise any keeping/aging potential?

angeleyes wrote:I've found the Croft unfiltered LBV, 2004 vintage bottled this year, in Tesco, in half bottles (excellently priced at £3.99). There is some fine sediment settled at the bottom, and it has more depth of flavour than the filtered varieties that I have had. However the bottles are closed with T type stoppers - a lot of literature suggests that unfiltered LBVs have driven corks. My question is - would the combination of stopper and half bottle compromise any keeping/aging potential?

That combination could actually be quite an advantage with this wine as it may develop releatively quickly compared to a 750ml with driven cork so will be drinking well sooner rather than later. That said, I would think these half bottles will need 5 years to start to show what they are made of but would no doubt keep for a decade or two.

I'm in London tomorrow - I know where I'm heading

DRT wrote:

angeleyes wrote:I've found the Croft unfiltered LBV, 2004 vintage bottled this year, in Tesco, in half bottles (excellently priced at £3.99). There is some fine sediment settled at the bottom, and it has more depth of flavour than the filtered varieties that I have had. However the bottles are closed with T type stoppers - a lot of literature suggests that unfiltered LBVs have driven corks. My question is - would the combination of stopper and half bottle compromise any keeping/aging potential?

That combination could actually be quite an advantage with this wine as it may develop releatively quickly compared to a 750ml with driven cork so will be drinking well sooner rather than later. That said, I would think these half bottles will need 5 years to start to show what they are made of but would no doubt keep for a decade or two.

I'm in London tomorrow - I know where I'm heading

Might only be at the bigger ones, try the behemoth branch in Surrey Quays (though I did clear half the stock on the shelf this evening!)

uncle tom wrote:Does anyone know when Fonseca first made an unfiltered LBV?

I've found thumbnail pictures of their LBV's back to '97, but can't see the label text well enough to see if the words 'unfiltered' or 'traditional' are on there. Neither their website nor any of the merchants make it clear if the wines are filtered or not.

Tom

A bit of research shows that there is mention of LBV's being introduced as far back as 1983 but it is not clear if these were indeed unfiltered or traditional.
Hope this helps.

Cookie,

The question 'was it filtered or unfiltered?' has proved a bit of a nightmare when trying to record the history of LBV's; and the producers (and their agents) have not excelled when it comes to answering emails on the subject.

The closure on an LBV is a pretty good test for younger wines - stopper for filtered, driven cork for unfiltered; but on the older bottles there are exceptions.

In my cellar I have a Smith Woodhouse 1982 LBV (possibly the first year of production?) - that makes it clear on the label that it is unfiltered - yet the bottle has a stopper as a closure. I also have three remaining bottles of Offley 1984 LBV, with driven corks, and of impeccable provenance; yet the wine is weak and sediment-free, suggesting it was heavily filtered prior to bottling.

The production of LBV (especially the unfiltered ones) does deserve to be properly recorded, but I sense that the producers regard it as an ephemeral product, and make no discernible effort to promote new vintages, unless they have scooped an award somewhere..

..a pity!

Tom