ThePortForum.com

ORIGINAL POST
Is there any interest in getting together in London in May for an offline, regardless of whether the vaguely possible 2007 offline occurs? Currently, I know I will be in London on Thursday May 7* and Thursday 21st May and would be delighted to have an excuse to meet up and drink some port on other days to this.

Alex

UPDATE
When - Wednesday May 20
Where - The Crusting Pipe, Covent Garden
Who - AHB, BMHR, JGH, THRA, WS1+guest all confirmed; CG probable; DRT unavailable
Theme - (subject to confirmation) Bring a Bottle to Share with other Lovers of Port

Regretably I think both dates will be difficult for me, although the concept of a tasting at the Oval is very appealing. Unfortunately I have two friends staying that night ahead of a 7.30am flight on the Friday morning and have already used a pass up week of 21st May involving my Mother having to babysit. Asking for a pass to drink port may result in divorce! Any Monday or Wednesday (other than Monday 11th May) would otherwise be great!

A Monday (excluding 4th, 11th or 25th) or Wednesday would work for me. Any preferences?

Things are a touch up in the air for me at the moment, but there’s a good chance I could do either Monday the 18th (which is presumably what AHB means by a ‟Monday (excluding 4th, 11th or 25th)”!) or a Wednesday that’s not the 6th.

JacobH wrote:...which is presumably what AHB means by a ‟Monday (excluding 4th, 11th or 25th)”...

I did write that with a touch of irony when I figured out what the combination of bank holidays and Ben's availability meant.

Monday 18th is an option for me, as is Tuesday 5th as the M-i-L is here that week now. It has been a while....!

Then let's confirm Monday 18th May as the date for the next London offline; assume the venue for the moment to be the Crusting Pipe in Covent Garden.

Any suggestions for a theme, please suggest them here.

Some possibilities which come to my mind are:
(a) bring a bottle to share
(b) Grahams (it's been a while since I opened a Grahams)
(c) a recommended ruby port

but happy to consider other thoughts.

CONFIRMED ATTENDEES
AHB
JGH
BMHR
DRT (unless he has to be elsewhere)

POSSIBLE ATTENDEES
WS1

Anyone else who would like to attend, please post in this thread. All will be welcome.

Alex

Please put me down as a "confirmed, unless some idiot makes me be somewhere else that day".

It seems I may need to be in Coventry on May 18th.

Would Wednesday May 20th work as an alternative?

20th could work for me.

I think it could probably work for me, too.

Three's a quorum. Wednesday May 20th is confirmed.

Venue? Crusting Pipe? The Oval (one day game against Yorkshire, but wine has to be taken into the ground in plastic bottles and glasses might be a problem. I'd still love to do an offline there one day though...)? Big Yellow in Chelsea (free tasting room but no food)?

AHB wrote:Three's a quorum. Wednesday May 20th is confirmed.

Venue? Crusting Pipe? The Oval (one day game against Yorkshire, but wine has to be taken into the ground in plastic bottles and glasses might be a problem. I'd still love to do an offline there one day though...)? Big Yellow in Chelsea (free tasting room but no food)?

Unless I am underestimating the length of a one-day match, I don't think I could take the day off to do the Oval. I'm not sure how many cricket fans there are on but perhaps bringing some port to a 20/20 (or however it is spelt!) match might be a nice way of doing something there whilst appealing to those of us who don't watch that much cricket?

Perhaps by default we should head back to the Crusting Pipe? A tasting in a self storage sounds rather scary, but perhaps it's not quite as bad as it sounds?!

I should be around May 20th - there's an outside chance I may have to nip over to China, but I'll probably be around.

Crusting Pipe is the easier of the suggested venues from my point of view.

Tom

OK. Happy to go with the Crusting Pipe as a venue.

The self-storage place in Chelsea has a nice little tasting room in the basement with a glass table and six chairs plus a couple of sets of comfy chairs clustered around a coffee table, copies of decanter etc, a (very) small library of wine books, sink, loo and just about everything you would want to have in a tasting room although you have to bring your own glasses and decanters. It has the distinct advantage that there are various bottles of wine there to be opened in the event of running out - but after 11pm you can get out of the building but not back in until the next morning.

I hadn't intended the Oval (if used) to be a venue for an all day tasting, more that we met there at - say - 6pm and watched the last hour or two of cricket whilst sipping fine vintage port.

First post in the thread updated with venue and attendee details.

Please note that I have had only one further suggestion for a theme, so please post below and indicate what you would prefer to see as the theme for the tasting:
(a) bring a bottle to share
(b) Grahams (it's been a while since I opened a Grahams)
(c) a recommended ruby port
(d) Quarles Harris - rarely seen but rarely disappoints (but I don't have any in my cellar)

Alex

I'd go for (a) - I have a suitable, (but non-vintage) candidate for such a theme.

Tom

A or b would suit me. C less of interest and d would require some retail!

Alex,

I confirm my attendance as well. It looks there is already quite some interest in alternative a.) I would be interested in d.) (am curious to try the 1980, after i could not make it to the 1980 horicontal at your house) but am also happy with a.). There is only a problem, except the bt of Cockburns Special Reserve left over from the glass cleaning excercise at the 1970 horicontal at the RAF club I do not own any NV Ports.
Please let me examples of suitable candidates what i should provide in case a.) will be the choice.

regards

Wolfgang

AHB wrote:I hadn't intended the Oval (if used) to be a venue for an all day tasting, more that we met there at - say - 6pm and watched the last hour or two of cricket whilst sipping fine vintage port.

Just a quick question - do you know something I don't about the club? I have never known them to be terribly happy allowing people much of an extension beyond close of play. They normally usher you out (politely I have to say) within 1-2 hours of close of play. That would probably entail us finishing up by about 8pm!

WS1 wrote:Alex,

I confirm my attendance as well. It looks there is already quite some interest in alternative a.) I would be interested in d.) (am curious to try the 1980, after i could not make it to the 1980 horicontal at your house) but am also happy with a.). There is only a problem, except the bt of Cockburns Special Reserve left over from the glass cleaning excercise at the 1970 horicontal at the RAF club I do not own any NV Ports.
Please let me examples of suitable candidates what i should provide in case a.) will be the choice.

regards

Wolfgang

Details of the arrangements are now included in the first post in this thread here

Wolfgang - alternative (a) just means that you bring a bottle which you think other port lovers would find interesting and enjoyable. It doesn't matter what the style of the port is, vintage or not. A bottle of Quarles Harris 1980 would be a perfect example of a something to bring along.

"Rare seen but rarely disappoints" might be an interesting theme for a tasting at some stage (not that I would have any idea what I would bring!).

I'm always happy with "bring a bottle to share" as it's one of the few things I can do from my fairly limited cellar!

Are we going to do it sighted or blind?

Are we going to do it sighted or blind?

In my case it would be sighted, as no-one is likely to come close to guessing - but each to their own I suggest - a wholly open agenda..

Tom

I like the suggestion of each to their own. You decide whether to show a bottle sighted or blind.

I will bring mine wrapped in tinfoil even though I cannot believe that anyone will guess what it is. It's just a bit of fun and a chance for us to make fools of ourselves.

Thanks to the kindness of Derek and a number of shippers, in addition to the bottles we bring to the offline on May 20 we will also have 5 cask samples from the 2007 vintage to taste.

I expect that we will only taste a small fraction of each of the bottles of cask samples so there will be some available to take home and taste over an extended period. There are only two conditions:
(a) if you want to take a cask sample home with you then you must bring a half bottle or smaller with you to the tasting; and
(b) you must promise faithfully that you will post a tasting note on TPF to record your impressions of the sample

Anyone interested?

AHB wrote:Thanks to the kindness of Derek and a number of shippers, in addition to the bottles we bring to the offline on May 20 we will also have 5 cask samples from the 2007 vintage to taste.

I expect that we will only taste a small fraction of each of the bottles of cask samples so there will be some available to take home and taste over an extended period. There are only two conditions:
(a) if you want to take a cask sample home with you then you must bring a half bottle or smaller with you to the tasting; and
(b) you must promise faithfully that you will post a tasting note on TPF to record your impressions of the sample

Anyone interested?

Responses along the lines of questioning the popes religion or bear's toilet habbits come to mind! That will be a "I will, I promise and yes!"

As a result of many of the samples I have been given being half bottles and thre fact that it now looks highly unlikely that I will make it to an off-line in May due to work commitments this will replace the intended 2007 cask sample off-line. If any more bottles turn up between now and then I will do what I can to get them to the Crusting Pipe by 20 May so that you have more wines to taste and review.

There is one other condition (which Alex will be taking care off): all wines must be tasted and reviewed blind. You will not know what you have tasted until the end of May when all of the TNs have been collected together

AHB wrote:Thanks to the kindness of Derek and a number of shippers, in addition to the bottles we bring to the offline on May 20 we will also have 5 cask samples from the 2007 vintage to taste.

I expect that we will only taste a small fraction of each of the bottles of cask samples so there will be some available to take home and taste over an extended period. There are only two conditions:
(a) if you want to take a cask sample home with you then you must bring a half bottle or smaller with you to the tasting; and
(b) you must promise faithfully that you will post a tasting note on TPF to record your impressions of the sample

Anyone interested?

It’s extremely kind of Derek to pass on the samples to this event when he won’t be able to attend; I hope that he will be retaining (or be posted, if we’re going to open the bottles on the night) some for his own use!

Would there be any chance that I could borrow a sample jar from someone with a few spare? I have two and don’t think my palate would allow me to assess more than three in the short window we have to try them following opening, so if I could steal an extra one, I’d be very grateful.

For the purposes of putting together some placemats, might I be given an indication of what sighted Ports people intending to bring? Or, if you are thinking of bringing something to be drunk blind, then an indication to that effect. If any of the wines are not supposed to be publicly announced before the event but are not supposed to be drunk blind, then by PM is fine.

Finally, just in case anyone else was wondering, it looks like a similar offer to the old pre-theatre menu has been reintroduced. (At the Vargellas tasting, it had just been withdrawn to be replaced by a super-cheap offer on a very limited menu). It’s now called a ‟Evening dining offer”, available on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Sundays and has 3 courses for £17.95. The pre-theatre menu is what we encountered last time: 2 courses for £10.00 or 3 courses for £12.00 from a limited set menu (which appears to be changing on a daily basis).

JacobH wrote: It’s extremely kind of Derek to pass on the samples to this event when he won’t be able to attend; I hope that he will be retaining (or be posted, if we’re going to open the bottles on the night) some for his own use!

Don't worry, I've not gone completely mad. I'm sorted

Have fun.

JacobH wrote:For the purposes of putting together some placemats,

From which I shall conclude that you have matters completely in hand. Hurray!

The bottle I bring will be tasted blind.

The cask samples that Derek has given me to taste are cask sample 1, cask sample 2...

Is this sufficient for the placemats?

Also, on the subject of tasting cask samples at home after the event I had a thought about which I would welcome input from others. One option for us is to split the remaining contents of each of the bottles so that everyone takes a bit of each bottle home. However, my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

Any comments?

AHB wrote: my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

That would also be my preference but can understand that others may wish to taste more than one or two wines the following day so will happily leave it to the majority of those attending to decide.

Derek

AHB wrote:Is this sufficient for the placemats?

I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

AHB wrote:Also, on the subject of tasting cask samples at home after the event I had a thought about which I would welcome input from others. One option for us is to split the remaining contents of each of the bottles so that everyone takes a bit of each bottle home. However, my preferred option would be for the remainder of each bottle to be taken home by only one or two people so that they can have enough for several tastes and can track (and post) the way the port changes over the next two-three days.

Any comments?

I don’t have strong preferences any way. Considering my lack of experiences with cask samples, I think I would be able to write something more sensible if I could compare more than one sample in a sitting. That said, knowing how difficult it is to taste these young wines without destroying the palate, I had thought that even if the other attendees were taking away a sample of each, I would aim for two or three samples which seemed like a manage.

One question, though: how much can be told from how the Port evolves over a few days after being opened? For instance, if a cask sample is undrinkable on opening but quite nice at 24 hours, what does that mean? It’s presumably not the same as looking for an optimal window for drinking a Vintage Port (even if James Suckling tells us to drink the 2007s now for pleasure!) and I wonder whether it might be a mistake to test long-term evolution as most people who seem to give me the impression of knowing about this sort of tasting (which I do not) suggest that the samples should be drunk soon after opening.

Jacob,

The limited experience I have of cask samples is that they do evolve over a couple of days and do not seem to be worse off for it. However, I think your idea of having more than one to compare is a good one. Perhaps you should all go armed with quarter bottles so that you can take away 2 or more samples each that you can taste more than once?

Given how intense these wines are I would suggest that on the night of the tasting you keep the pours very small to keep most of the wine to be shared out and taken home.

Derek

JacobH wrote:I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

jdaw1 wrote:

JacobH wrote:I think I might work on the principle that they would all be tasted blind. Some preliminary ideas are here (which may take a while to display in your PDF viewer).

If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

Jacob,

Despite the use of the question mark I do not think JDAW is really asking a question here

Derek

Wasn’t I?

(Also, eleven glasses on one sheet of A4 will be very tight. And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”? Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?)

I like the provision for up to 16 glasses of water. Do you know something about cask samples that necessitates this much water?! I like the use of Roman numerals by the way.

Personally, I shall also be serving blind. (Partly because I am still considering what to bring but mainly because I find it fun.)

benread wrote:I like the provision for up to 16 glasses of water. Do you know something about cask samples that necessitates this much water?!

Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

jdaw1 wrote:Also, eleven glasses on one sheet of A4 will be very tight.

Understood. If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

jdaw1 wrote:And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”?

No. Do you know of a way whereby I can access the lining numbers (+lnum) in my OpenType Postscript font? (Such a method would also allow me to use small caps (+smcp) and ornaments (+ornm, I think) which I would be quite nice).

(Looking up anything to do with OpenType support in Postscript is a nightmare because it’s impossible to find pages which deal with the Postscript language rather than Postscript or OpenType Postscript fonts...)

jdaw1 wrote:Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?

As their only difference is their number, I thought their place on the tasting note sheet will be sufficient. If we move to two sheets, then this will become more clear!

jdaw1 wrote:If using Titles longer than three characters, surely a tall rather than wide typeface would be better?

I liked the fact it left quite a lot of white space so that the names of the Ports can be manually written in once their identities have been revealed; the actual initials aren’t too important. I also liked the fact that the outlines look more like ripples for WS and CG; something which would be lost with a typeface that would take up more space in the circle!

JacobH wrote:If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

I like the idea of having two sheets of A4 for the tasting mats, separate the cask samples from the real drinking if we can.

Bearing in mind that the Crusting Pipe will charge us £10 per bottle we open and pour, I am minded to negotiate with them to only provide glasses and therefore only charge for the non-cask samples. The logic to this being that I will open a cask sample bottle and fill four quarter bottles brought by the attendees. The attendees will take these quarter bottles home with them to drink. If an attendee chooses to taste a small part of their quarter bottle at the venue, that's fair enough but shouldn't be considered part of our event.

Alex

AHB wrote:

JacobH wrote:If Christopher looks like he will confirm, I intend moving to two sheets in the semi-circle format; one for the cask samples and one for the others. This will also allow me to add an extra spare for a ‟spare” bottle--something I think might be quite useful.

I like the idea of having two sheets of A4 for the tasting mats, separate the cask samples from the real drinking if we can.

That alternative arrangement is available for further criticism here. (Having played with /OutlineTitlesInnerWidthBlack a bit, the subtitles now do not work at all; further consideration will take place).

AHB wrote:Bearing in mind that the Crusting Pipe will charge us £10 per bottle we open and pour, I am minded to negotiate with them to only provide glasses and therefore only charge for the non-cask samples. The logic to this being that I will open a cask sample bottle and fill four quarter bottles brought by the attendees. The attendees will take these quarter bottles home with them to drink. If an attendee chooses to taste a small part of their quarter bottle at the venue, that's fair enough but shouldn't be considered part of our event.

In the past they’ve always been quite reasonable about corkage. If we’re clear about what we’re doing (i.e. drinking one bottle per person but bringing some other samples for redistribution and a sip of each) then I think it’s unlikely that they’ll charge extra corkage for the cask samples. If my memory is correct, we weren’t charged corkage for the Niepoort at the Vargellas tasting. I appreciate that some attendees might not wish to try anything at the TCP, but I’d quite like a chance to taste and to discuss some of them in a non-virtual way if that’s at all possible. Indeed, if it came to it, I’d be happy to pay some extra corkage.

JacobH wrote:Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

Is this a serious feature request? There could be two types of glass icon.

JacobH wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:And, are you sure that lower-case numbers work well in a postcode: ‟WC2E”?

No. Do you know of a way whereby I can access the lining numbers (+lnum) in my OpenType Postscript font? (Such a method would also allow me to use small caps (+smcp) and ornaments (+ornm, I think) which I would be quite nice).

All characters should be accessible via the name of the glyph (helpful list).

JacobH wrote:(Looking up anything to do with OpenType support in Postscript is a nightmare because it’s impossible to find pages which deal with the Postscript language rather than Postscript or OpenType Postscript fonts...)

You know more than me.

JacobH wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Plus, should the cask-sample circles be more prominently differentiated?

As their only difference is their number, I thought their place on the tasting note sheet will be sufficient. If we move to two sheets, then this will become more clear!

As the evening progresses greater clarity and obviousness of differentiation becomes more important. What about titling them ‟#1”, ‟#2”, !?

JacobH wrote:I liked the fact it left quite a lot of white space so that the names of the Ports can be manually written in once their identities have been revealed; the actual initials aren’t too important. I also liked the fact that the outlines look more like ripples for WS and CG; something which would be lost with a typeface that would take up more space in the circle!

Fine.

Draft placemats look good to me.

JacobH wrote:That alternative arrangement is available for further criticism here. (Having played with /OutlineTitlesInnerWidthBlack a bit, the subtitles now do not work at all; further consideration will take place).

Just an observation - nothing more. Tom and I both have 4 initials and Alex has an "H" as his only middle initial. With my name, you chose to drop my third name (Howard for the sake of idle interest) and with Tom you chose to drop the second - also an "H". Starting to think this was an "H" conspiracy, I was drawn to "AHB".

Interesting!

'H' conspiracies aside. I am much less averse to being called TRA than I am THA, as my third initial is a family name, and not a given one.

I have in the past exhibited a pedantry is this regard, of which I am sure Julian would be proud; by forcing my local District Council to show my name correctly on the electoral register.

A few years ago, they invested in some software that would not allow more than one middle intitial to be displayed. After initially arguing that 'the system' made it impossible to do otherwise, I challenged them to demonstrate their authority to change someone's name.

- They backed down immediately..

Tom

uncle tom wrote:'H' conspiracies aside

Are they really less plausible than ‘7 and 9’ conspiracies?

An alternative to the changing of your name would be /SameSizeTitlesIfAllOf [/OnSheetWithSameRadius] def.

uncle tom wrote:'H' conspiracies aside. I am much less averse to being called TRA than I am THA, as my third initial is a family name, and not a given one.

I have in the past exhibited a pedantry is this regard, of which I am sure Julian would be proud; by forcing my local District Council to show my name correctly on the electoral register.

A few years ago, they invested in some software that would not allow more than one middle intitial to be displayed. After initially arguing that 'the system' made it impossible to do otherwise, I challenged them to demonstrate their authority to change someone's name.

- They backed down immediately..

Tom

So R is a family name for you. H is also a family name and I feel likewise about it! I have yet to show similar levels of pedantry about it, but I shall in future remember your example!

benread wrote:Just an observation - nothing more. Tom and I both have 4 initials and Alex has an "H" as his only middle initial. With my name, you chose to drop my third name (Howard for the sake of idle interest) and with Tom you chose to drop the second - also an "H". Starting to think this was an "H" conspiracy, I was drawn to "AHB".

I think I'm going to veto any further chopping-offs of Hs before I end up surnameless... (Actually, I did play around with reducing your and Tom's initials to three, but decided it was probably going a bit too far to start unilaterally denominating people. I was also a bit worried about which one to choose, a decision that I think is probably vindicated by Tom's post!).

I am with Tom about retention of family middle names, though; I've been tempted to double-barrel mine so that the G doesn't get left as frequently as it does.

jdaw1 wrote:

JacobH wrote:Unfortunately, there is no easy way of specifying that half of those represent cups of tea, pints of Landlord, glasses of gin and tonic or other palate cleansing substances!

Is this a serious feature request? There could be two types of glass icon.

What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

JacobH wrote:What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

Nope: I don’t know how many ports per water icon.

jdaw1 wrote:

JacobH wrote:What about the automatic addition of a palate cleansing symbol when the number of bottles reaches a certain number? Perhaps one after around 7 (representing the post-offline palate-cleanser) and then others at 15, 30 &c.?

Nope: I don’t know how many ports per water icon.

But will you not know how much Port is to be consumed based on the size of the /titles array?