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It hadn’t really dawned on me until recently that Fonseca has produced four types of VPs and SQVPs: standard Fonseca, Fonseca Guimaraens, Quinta do Panascal and Quinta do Cruzeiro. I think I can deal with Guimaraens in a straight-forward way; it’s a second-label Vintage Port. But thinking about the SQVPs produces a deluge of questions. Firstly, Cruzeiro seems pretty rare: is it still produced? Equally, the only two tasting notes on both rate it fairly poorly, especially compared to Fonsecas of similar age. Did Fonseca really release a SQVP which was far worse than their normal VPs? And how does Panascal compare to the Guimaraens of the same Vintage? Is one usually better than the other?

Interesting questions. To the best of my knowledge (and from memory since I my books are all away in storage) Panascal has only been released as a single quinta port by Fonseca for a relatively small number of years. I've only tried one vintage and I wasn't particularly impressed but it could well have been a badly stored bottle.

On the other hand, Fonseca are consistently fabulous ports. Fonseca Guimaraens - although called second label - a superb ports where the "second" status could come more from a lesser quantity being available rather than a lesser quality attained.

FG can be a real bargain. Last week I bought my first bottle of 1984 FG and can't wait to try it.

AHB wrote:Interesting questions. To the best of my knowledge (and from memory since I my books are all away in storage) Panascal has only been released as a single quinta port by Fonseca for a relatively small number of years. I've only tried one vintage and I wasn't particularly impressed but it could well have been a badly stored bottle.

On the other hand, Fonseca are consistently fabulous ports. Fonseca Guimaraens - although called second label - a superb ports where the "second" status could come more from a lesser quantity being available rather than a lesser quality attained.

FG can be a real bargain. Last week I bought my first bottle of 1984 FG and can't wait to try it.

post notes =)
i've managed to snag the Giumareans, 86, 91, and 95 for very reasonable 45$/bottle

AHB wrote:Interesting questions. To the best of my knowledge (and from memory since I my books are all away in storage) Panascal has only been released as a single quinta port by Fonseca for a relatively small number of years. I've only tried one vintage and I wasn't particularly impressed but it could well have been a badly stored bottle.

On the other hand, Fonseca are consistently fabulous ports. Fonseca Guimaraens - although called second label - a superb ports where the "second" status could come more from a lesser quantity being available rather than a lesser quality attained.

FG can be a real bargain. Last week I bought my first bottle of 1984 FG and can't wait to try it.

One of the reasons I was thinking about this is that I was contemplating some 2005 Panascal that Corney and Barrow has for about £17 a bottle. Whilst this is not cheap, if it the Panascal is as good as the Guimaraens, it might not be an unreasonable. But, as Alex points out, there seems to be very little Panascal around and I can't find many Tasting Notes which are as favourable as those of the Guimaraens.

I have never come across the Cruzeiro, have a few vintages of FG, going back to 1972, and just one bottle of Panascal - a 1978

I've not been blown away by FG, but the number of encounters has been small, and not enough to generalise - I may have been unlucky.

If I had to cast a vote for the most elegant label design on a port bottle, the Panascal would be a strong contender.

Tom

I thought that Guimaraens was a vintage port from an undeclared year, so you could never have a Fonseca Vintage and a Fonseca Guimaraens in the same year. Panascal on its own would be a single quinta vintage port, and presumably you would not have a Panascal the same year as a Guimaraens or a Fonseca Vintage. The only Panascal I have seen or tasted was the 2005, and it was underwhelming. The Cruzeiro I've never heard of.

Shall I email Fonseca for clarification?

Portman wrote:I thought that Guimaraens was a vintage port from an undeclared year, so you could never have a Fonseca Vintage and a Fonseca Guimaraens in the same year. Panascal on its own would be a single quinta vintage port, and presumably you would not have a Panascal the same year as a Guimaraens or a Fonseca Vintage. The only Panascal I have seen or tasted was the 2005, and it was underwhelming. The Cruzeiro I've never heard of.

Shall I email Fonseca for clarification?

Yes, I think Guimaraens has only been declared in years when a standard Fonseca has not been produced, although several of the other shippers (e.g. Sandeman or Noval) have been happy to produce both first and second label bottles in the same year.

Panascal and Guimaraens are both regularly produced in the same year, though. Fonseca's website lists both being produced in: 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1996, 1998, 2001. There's no information about Cruzeiro at all, nor when Panascal was produced before 1984 (the list of dates for the Guimaraens goes back to 1942).

I imagine if you email them you will simply be told that both are superb Ports with one being blended and the other a SQVP...what I was particularly wondering about is whether the Guimaraens is markedly better than the Panascal and, if so, why they both producing the SQVP.

This is the information provided to me by Taylor Fladgate a few months ago listing all declared vintages of the Fonseca brands excluding Cruzeiro...

FONSECA VINTAGES:

Fonseca
1844, 1846, 1847, 1851, 1854, 1863, 1865, 1868, 1870, 1872, 1873, 1878, 1881, 1884, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1896,
1900, 1904, 1906, 1908, 1912, 1920, 1922, 1924, 1927, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1937, 1945, 1948, 1955, 1960, 1963, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1977, 1980, 1983, 1985, 1992, 1994, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2007.

Guimaraens
1931, 1933, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1952, 1954, 1957, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004, 2005

Quinta do Panascal
1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1996, 2001, 2004, 2005

Cruzeiro only seems to have been produced in 1978 and 1982, although neither of these were listed in Alex Liddel's book Port Wine Quintas of the Douro in 1992. The quinta was acquired by Fonseca in 1973 and, according to Liddle, the wines are now utilised for Fonseca or Fonseca Guimareans vintages, Bin 27 and aged tawnies.