ThePortForum.com

According to this article in Decanter, the 2007 Vintage Port campaign is a success. Apparently, the producers chose the right pricing strategy, as customers are very willing to buy. It will be interesting to see if prices go up (or down) after the futures campaign... and in 3-5 years time.

Definitely, thanks for the article.

Axel

I went to an antique auction in Bury St Edmunds yesterday - loads of old silver and other 'objets' selling for surprising amounts, and some obscure Belgian gold coins of no great age appeared to sell for far more than their bullion worth...

I was there for a few wine lots, and was dumbfounded when I realised that neither the auctioneer nor some of the punters appeared to appreciate the difference between Vintage and LBV - four LBV's, mostly Taylor, dating from the 80's & 90's sold for £100 plus a hefty buyers premium..

As I was taking this in, I heard someone say "yes, but anything's better than money these days"..

..we live in strange times..!

Tom

The same premium prices were seen a couple of weeks ago in the Douro in a Port Wine auction in my town. But here it's the same every year, people pay more than almost any bottle is worth.

Oscar,

I remember hearing about a wine auction in the Douro before, and the very high prices realised.

Does the money from the auction go to charity? In the UK, charity auctions often see very high prices, as people want to help the good cause.

Tom

Tom,

Some money goes to charity but it is up to the producer to decide if wants to give it or to receive it. But as you never know what was the producer's decision, it can't really justify the high prices. You can be bidding high for a bottle which money is going to the producer's pockets.

At auctions in the Netherlands and Belgium prices often are very high as well. People seem to relate to the local retail prices (which are high in the Netherlands, although not as high as in Portugal) rather than to the international market value of the ports.

Tom's remark abut people investing in anything but money seems to make sense. But I can already see the sad look on their faces when they try to make a bit of money on their 'investment' in a few years' time. It could very well be that they have to sell at a loss then.

I would assume that the eventual price will also depend on the availability of a particular vintage in the years to come. Are there actual numbers available per vintage of the total "vintage" production per year? Or assumptions on the remaining stock of certain vintages?

I would assume that the eventual price will also depend on the availability of a particular vintage in the years to come. Are there actual numbers available per vintage of the total "vintage" production per year? Or assumptions on the remaining stock of certain vintages?

The IVDP should have production data available going back to the 1930's at least, but as far as I know, the exact amount of VP made each year is not part of the datasets that are available online.

Production aside, the question 'how fast is VP drunk' - or 'what is the half-life of a bottle of port' is very difficult to calculate.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of production figures with appearances at auction.

Tom

From what I have seen so far the 2007s have been priced appropriately. In Portugal I saw Quinta do Vesuvio, Graham, Dow, and Warre 2007s all around 50 Euro each. For Portugal that is not bad.

Here in the States, I just saw my first 2007 offering from one of the big internet wine stores: Dow at $59 a bottle. Again, pretty reasonable, given the weak dollar. Bill

Bearing in mind that you can find Dow 85 for the same price and ready to drink, I do not believe that these are really fair prices...
Yet, I might be mistaking.

I do think that the ex-cellar prices are reasonable, too. The quality is good, partially fantastic, but I do not agree that 2007 is a perfect Vintage throughout.

Although I do think that the prices for some more mature VPs are seducive, so I am buying some of each right now.

Axel

It depends where you live.

The UK having a large and brutal secondary market, I shall wait - my purchases of 2003's at auction have averaged at about 60% of the release price.

Tom

It's no secret that I am buying some 2007's now, plus picking up mature and young ports as and when the prices are keen. 60% of my 2003 and 2000 ports were bought in the secondary market - but 40% were bought en primeur and have not moved from their original storage location.

smisse wrote:Bearing in mind that you can find Dow 85 for the same price and ready to drink, I do not believe that these are really fair prices...
Yet, I might be mistaking.

Perhaps not, but isn't that primarily due to the fact that mature vintage port is fairly cheap for what it is? Compared to en primeur prices for some of the top table wines--which is what I think the shippers want us to do--Port is still relatively cheap.

Perhaps not, but isn't that primarily due to the fact that mature vintage port is fairly cheap for what it is? Compared to en primeur prices for some of the top table wines--which is what I think the shippers want us to do--Port is still relatively cheap.

But the top table wines are trading for crazy amounts, being bought and sold by people who mostly have no intention of drinking them.

Of course the port producers would like to follow suit - anyone in a manufacturing business would like to be able to sell their product for more.

The percentage of the world's production of table wine that is sold for less than £5/bottle is staggeringly high, and a high percentage of the rest is sold for less than £10.

The cream of the market, that sold for more than £50/bottle, is a very small percentage of the total - probably less than one bottle in a thousand.

Tom

uncle tom wrote:But the top table wines are trading for crazy amounts, being bought and sold by people who mostly have no intention of drinking them.

Of course the port producers would like to follow suit - anyone in a manufacturing business would like to be able to sell their product for more.

The percentage of the world's production of table wine that is sold for less than £5/bottle is staggeringly high, and a high percentage of the rest is sold for less than £10.

The cream of the market, that sold for more than £50/bottle, is a very small percentage of the total - probably less than one bottle in a thousand.

Tom

I completly agree, there were some crazy prices for the top table wines. Fortunately for the health of the whole industry, prices are already dropping as the demand for these wine reduced dramatically. The overall quality of the table wines is growing every single harvest and the big challenge for the wineries is to make good wines at a very affordable prices.