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This discussion originated in the organisation thread for the Vesuvio Vertical and was moved here by DRT.

Hmmm, when talking to Kevin about the tasting we feel that this tasting can no longer be called an "offline" tasting. We should upgrade this to a full tasting and attempt to organise a another true offline as we wanted in the beginning

WS1 wrote:Hmmm, when talking to Kevin about the tasting we feel that this tasting can no longer be called an "offline" tasting. We should upgrade this to a full tasting and attempt to organise a another true offline as we wanted in the beginning

Please describe the difference between an "offline", a "full tasting" and a "true offline"?

DRT wrote:

WS1 wrote:Hmmm, when talking to Kevin about the tasting we feel that this tasting can no longer be called an "offline" tasting. We should upgrade this to a full tasting and attempt to organise a another true offline as we wanted in the beginning

Please describe the difference between an "offline", a "full tasting" and a "true offline"?

For me a offline is a "get together" that can be either serious or very relaxed (e.g. with the theme bring a bottle of port ). a very relaxed get together i would consider a "true offline". A full tasting I would define a "get together" for which we have either a theme (horicontal/vertical etc.), a bigger number of bts and attendees or quite a signifcant effort put into. A clear criteria would be e.g. 2 sessions.

How do you see this ?

WS1 wrote:For me a offline is a "get together" that can be either serious or very relaxed (e.g. with the theme bring a bottle of port ). a very relaxed get together i would consider a "true offline". A full tasting I would define a "get together" for which we have either a theme (horicontal/vertical etc.), a bigger number of bts and attendees or quite a signifcant effort put into. A clear criteria would be e.g. 2 sessions.

How do you see this ?

A serious offline with a theme.

I dunno --- very much still a newbie, but to me, the difference is less the number of bottles, and more to do with the number of unfamiliar/guest/'celebrity' faces.

If it is still a family affair, it could be 50 bottles and still feel like an offline. If you invite all sorts of people in the trade to take part and so on, perhaps it becomes something different.

Just my 2p.

Chris, does that mean that the two events you have attended in recent weeks: one where you were a an unfamiliar face and the other where we had someone from the trade and some other unfamiliar faces would both by Tastings rather than Off-lines?

My thoughts - it's an offline when it's at the Crusting Pipe and it's a tasting when it's at a London Club or similar venue.

DRT wrote:Chris, does that mean that the two events you have attended in recent weeks: one where you were a an unfamiliar face and the other where we had someone from the trade and some other unfamiliar faces would both by Tastings rather than Off-lines?

I think the two events I attended actually make my point quite well.

The first was clearly an offline, as the crowd was all regulars, plus one newbie (not royalty, just a new face).

The second was to me a tasting -- 'oscar night' -- not only featured Oscar himself, but the wines he brought, and the collection of characters who were completely new not only to the group, but also to port.

Again -- I am new to this group, but this is just how I see it. More to do with the people than the number/type of wines, or even the place (though I would say the place would come second. If, for instance, instead of the crusting pipe, the Queen invited the group to use the smoking room at Buckingham....that would likely have to qualify as a 'tasting' regardless of who attended and what was served)

I find this fascinating, especially in the context of how this group and this website evolved.

How would we organise an "offline"? Would we only open up the event to familiar faces? Would we decline requests from members of the trade or newbies? That seems wrong to me.

I think the difference is not in the name, location or line-up but in what ends up happening on the night. At the beginning of these things there is always an open invitation posted here and places are filled on a first come basis. Some events end up being small with just the usual suspects in attendance and some turn into bigger things. I like the variety that this brings. I wouldn't want a closed shop approach where we precluded people from outside the usual group from joining us.

Derek

Oh, and I am willing to bet Lizzy would prefer an off-line at the crusting pipe than a tasting at Buck House

DRT wrote:
How would we organise an "offline"? Would we only open up the event to familiar faces? Would we decline requests from members of the trade or newbies? That seems wrong to me.

I think perhaps you misunderstand my view. I think everything STARTS as an offline -- you guys say 'hey, wanna meet up again and drink some more port?" and the others say "well yeah, that's a novel idea." Sometimes they snowball -- either because a glut of newbies, the availability of people from the trade, or particularly interesting or numerous bottles, until it becomes clear that this event will no longer be the *usual* experience of sitting around in a casual and uneventful way with some familiar faces, drinking familiar wines.

Of course, TPF should welcome diversity in all forms -- members, wines, attendees and formats of shall we say 'gatherings' etc. One is not better or worse than the other, but I think we can all acknowledge that there are different categories. I guess the question we have unanswered is: what is the key determining factor between one format and another? I posit that it is the people present, but some have voiced other views.

Chris Doty wrote:

DRT wrote:
How would we organise an "offline"? Would we only open up the event to familiar faces? Would we decline requests from members of the trade or newbies? That seems wrong to me.

I think perhaps you misunderstand my view.

Chris, I don't disagree with what you say on this subject, but my opening question in the above quote was actually related to Wolfgang's opening statements on this topic...

WS1 wrote: We should upgrade this to a full tasting and attempt to organise a another true offline as we wanted in the beginning

That says to me that there is a desire to specifically organise an event on this forum that is only open to a small group of those of us who usually attend our events. There is nothing worng with the concept. Indeed, many here have invited others to their homes for informal events that they understandably do not wish to open up to more than a few close friends. But such events are no organised on the forum, they are organised by email.

Informal "Offlines", as defined by Wolfgang above, happen regularly but they happen by chance. I don't think they need to be manufactured that way by excluding anyone who wants to attend.

Ahhh -- thanks for clarifying.

Yes...'closed' events are I guess a bit trickier, and I guess are better organized through email, phone calls, carrier pigeons, and smoke signals.

To quote Chris, which I find odd, quoting an American using an English expression, my "2p worth"...

Does it matter!
If we are all sat at home, with a glass of port, chatting online, then it is by definition a 'virtual' tasting, as this was.

Otherwise, it is by definition 'offline'. Beyond that, the distinction is irrelevant to me. I get to drink port with like minded people and at a large number of events, meet new people.

For me, the distinction seems more to be the seriousness of the theme. The more serious the theme, the more likely it is to be of interest to industry guests, the more formal the event becomes.

I will end as I started - it does not matter to me, as long as we continue to organise a variety of events, with good company a port.

My thanks go to those better connected than I, who are willing to arrange such events and invite others to attend.

Oh my god, what has my statement let to. Indeed I like when we get together in the small boardroom in the crustig pipe and drink Port together. Also when we did our 2007 cask sample tasting it was good company, straight forward, without complications and a bit too much Port (at least for me) or as you like it
I also like when we have tastings, but for me there are two issues with tastings I hate. First issue is the number of tastings as such or bts at a tasting. E.g. haveing two or three major tastings in a week or going through 100s of wines is no longer nice.
Secondly when tastings become in any form complicated or too serious.
When putting my definition together to answer Dereks question I could not really distinghish beetween a serious offline and a tasting. Both are essentially the same. When he cheekily answered with this coment I thought we are all on the same page and no further discussion would arise.
Reading today all these posts I think we should not loose behind what makes the great. I think we are a bunch of people who are sophisticated and at the same time stayed sensible. In the end it should not matter how many people we are or how many bts we open as long as it is good fun and we go not too much "overboard".

regards

WS1

I agree with everything that Ben said. I also acknowledge Wolfgang's concerns about the risks of too many of these events being too serious.

At this point in time I just hope that the tasting that sparked this conversation actually happens. When I opened the curtains this morning I was surprised to see 4 inches of snow outside. The last time that happened my car was stuck on our road for 3 weeks!! - and I have just under half the bottles and half the glasses for the tasting in my possession

Pray for rain!!!

I agree with Wolfgang. Though I quite like complex tastings; we really ought to repeat that ‟bring a 30+ year old bottle of Port where the shipper shares an initial with you” theme

An offline becomes a tasting the moment the first glass of Port touches my lips and I taste it

JacobH wrote:I agree with Wolfgang. Though I quite like complex tastings; we really ought to repeat that ‟bring a 30+ year old bottle of Port where the shipper shares an initial with you” theme

That was a fun theme! I think it deserves to be very informal and at TCP or similar!

DRT wrote:I agree with everything that Ben said. I also acknowledge Wolfgang's concerns about the risks of too many of these events being too serious.

At this point in time I just hope that the tasting that sparked this conversation actually happens. When I opened the curtains this morning I was surprised to see 4 inches of snow outside. The last time that happened my car was stuck on our road for 3 weeks!! - and I have just under half the bottles and half the glasses for the tasting in my possession

Pray for rain!!!

will do. It would be a pity if this tasting cannot go ahead.

Fear not! The car is packed and the road is clear - this thing is definitely happening!!

DRT wrote:Fear not! The car is packed and the road is clear - this thing is definitely happening!!

Great news! Just remembered the quote out of the Blues Brothers movie when Elwood said "You see, we're on a mission from God."

Have a good journey and see you in London Tuesday afternoon when you collect more bts of Vesuvio and glasses.

regards

WS1

WS1 wrote:Just remembered the quote out of the Blues Brothers movie when Elwood said "You see, we're on a mission from God."

It's 180 miles to London, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of Vesuvio, it's snowing, and we're wearing sunglasses

Hit it.

Have you seen the light?

WS1 wrote:Hit it.

Have you seen the light?

Who gets to play the Penguin?!

I think the difference between an offline and a tasting is the size and level of formality.

To me, an offline is a simple get-together. It may or may not have a theme. It may or may not have an industry guest (though "not" is more likely). It's just a handful of people getting together to drink Port.

A tasting is something bigger and more official. A full Vesuvio vertical is a tasting. A full 2007 horizontal is a tasting. A Taylor/Fonseca/Dow/Graham matrix of '63/'66/'70/'77 is a tasting. Needing to break the flights into pre- and post-dinner sessions is a tasting.

I can't explain the grey area in between, but I can tell you whether an event is an offline or a tasting.