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So far, at least as my memory tells me, we only have two tasting events planned for the autumn / winter season. These being the "55 @ 55" - which I will start to organise properly when Roy lets me know whether or not he is organising a second week of his harvest tour - and the Christmas Offline of "The Unknown Shipper and His Peculiar Friends".

So far this year we have managed some rather obscure and specialist tastings - 1960, 1975 (sort of), 1978, 1982 and there was even talk of a 1976 horizontal.

I think its about time we organised something rather splendid in September or November. Something which we could confidently predict would deliver terrific levels of enjoyment and pleasure (of a purely port kind).

So, if you could attend something rather splendid, what would you want to be organised? (Bearing in mind that the cost will have to be shared out across the 12 or so people who attend.) Themes which immediately come to my mind would include:
- Horizontals: 1977, 1970, 1966 (or even 1948, 1945, 1935, 1927)
- Comparisons: 1983 vs 1985
- Verticals: Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, Dow, Nacional (pricey though!)
- Misc: 1 bottle from each decade of the last century

If we can get enough agreement, I'm happy to get organising. Let me know what you think would be most practical and any particular days or dates which wouldn't work and we'll see what happens...

AHB wrote:So, if you could attend something rather splendid, what would you want to be organised? (Bearing in mind that the cost will have to be shared out across the 12 or so people who attend.) Themes which immediately come to my mind would include:
- Horizontals: 1977, 1970, 1966 (or even 1948, 1945, 1935, 1927)
- Comparisons: 1983 vs 1985
- Verticals: Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, Dow, Nacional (pricey though!)
- Misc: 1 bottle from each decade of the last century

If we can get enough agreement, I'm happy to get organising. Let me know what you think would be most practical and any particular days or dates which wouldn't work and we'll see what happens...

What about a Dow vertical? I don't think there has ever been a serious exploration of that shipper in the history of ...

I think Dow is a strong suggestion. Would also be eager to try older Niepoorts, but I know those are hard to source.

Would be game for a 1960 or a 1977 horizontal as well.

Love the initiative AHB!

Great idea Alex. I think a bottle from each decade of the last century would be quite a challenge.

For me to be included though It would have to be in September/October though as I am on holiday for most of November.

Dates permitting I would be very keen. For this reason, it would need to be earlier part of Autumn I think! I am easy on themes, with the usual proviso about possibly needing to adopt.

Hi there,

I am also interested if the dates work out. As a theme I would be in favour of a comparison tasting. however I am not so fond of 1983 vs 1985. 1985 vs 1987 sounds more interesting. Dow vertical sounds also interesting.

regards

WS1

Dow: I have been saving a ’66 and a ’45 for a Dow vertical. Works for me.

Roy has given me his dates for his visit to the UK in early October and I will start to organise the 55@55 tasting just as soon as I have finished working out how my cellar will change over the next 25 years as I drnk from it and the wines I don't drink mature another year - damn you Uncle Tom, you knew I would get obsessive about this

So it looks like our Autumn Extravaganza is best organised for September. Any dates in September to avoid? I can make:
Th 2
Fr 3
Mo 6
Tu 7
We 8
Th 9
Fr 10
Mo 13
Tu 14
We 15
Fr 17
but nothing in September after this

Dow vertical sounds like a winner, let's adopt that as a theme unless anyone has a vigorous objection. Please let me know by PM what Dows you have available and what the cost would be for any bottles you could offer.

Put, me in, too, Alex.

Love to go for the 55 or any other horizontal or shall we go for the 63-66-70 Fladgate vs. Symington on our own (without any of the producers)? I guess they will be hard to be towed away from the douro at this time.

Best

Axel

Summarising decisions to date:
- Selected theme is a Dow vertical
- Venue not yet decided
- Date not fixed but first half of September
- Attendees confirmed (subject to final date) are AHB, AP, JDAW, BMHR, RLC, CSD, JGH, WS

So, please take a look at the dates I have suggested earlier in the thread and post a reply to say which dates are likely to work for you and which are not.

This offline is not intended to turn into a major tasting where we line up every vintage ever declared by Dow, just a bottle per person with a bit of co-ordination on my part to try and prevent duplication of years.

And anyone who is browsing and tempted by the idea but not sure whether it's polite to invite yourself along - it absolutely is! Feel free to say you'd like to join us and you would be welcome (although we do limit seats round the table to 14 to ensure everyone gets enough port to taste).

Hi Alex,

I am interested to join this offline if possible (subject to final date)

regards

WS1

WS1 wrote:Hi Alex,

I am interested to join this offline if possible (subject to final date)

regards

WS1

Absolutely. Your name should have been on the list because you posted earlier. Sorry.

But your post does give me a chance to gently prod - you say subject to the final date. Suggest one which works for you from the list I have posted above...

I've had an initial response that indicates preferred dates for this offline would be 2, 7, 14 or 17. Any preference from these? If not, I am inclined to go for Tuesday 7 September.

Alex,

for me everything until Sep 16th would work out. Dows vertical is excellent. RAF Club or anywhere else this time?

Anything you need for contributions? Shall we focus on the big years or would it be an anything goes vertical?

Axel

Axel P wrote:Alex,

for me everything until Sep 16th would work out. Dows vertical is excellent. RAF Club or anywhere else this time?

Anything you need for contributions? Shall we focus on the big years or would it be an anything goes vertical?

Axel

With 8 of us attending (and bringing 8 bottles), I would be inclined to go to the Crusting Pipe. 8 people fit nicely into one of the tunnels and gives us plenty of chance to talk as well as drink. If we start to get to a larger number of attendees then we could look to see if the RAF Club was free or stick with the Crusting Pipe.

Once we agree on a date, I think we'll open the field to any vintage of Dow (but not single quintas from Dow) so if anyone wants to bring along an obscure vintage then they are welcome to do so. The only coordination I will do is to ensure that no vintage is duplicated.

Should we do this blind or sighted?

Count me in..

Following Dows readily available for adoption:

1991
1985
1983
1980
1977
1975
1972
1970
1966
1963
1960

I also have a few older bottles - how far back are we going?

Tom

AHB wrote:With 8 of us attending (and bringing 8 bottles), I would be inclined to go to the Crusting Pipe. 8 people fit nicely into one of the tunnels and gives us plenty of chance to talk as well as drink. If we start to get to a larger number of attendees then we could look to see if the RAF Club was free or stick with the Crusting Pipe.

I agree; sounds good.

AHB wrote:Once we agree on a date, I think we'll open the field to any vintage of Dow (but not single quintas from Dow) so if anyone wants to bring along an obscure vintage then they are welcome to do so. The only coordination I will do is to ensure that no vintage is duplicated.

Should we do this blind or sighted?

I wonder if might need to give a bit more thought to the vintages? If we leave out SQVPs, then we will cover quite a large range of years, with quite a big variation in price, even with only 8 of us. More if we leave out the younger ones.

Alex,

copied. If we are going to be more and you tell me to I will ask at the RAF club.

On my opinion a blind vertical would be awesome, though harder to prepare.
Shall we disclose the bottles which are in the tasting at all or not?
When do you think you can fix the date? Yes I know that I am a pain, but I need to get flights scheduled.

Thanks

Axel

With the numbers attending, I would suggest leaving out the Bomfims - perhaps a complete twelve vintage lineup from 1960 to 1994..?

Tom

That's a splendid suggestion, Tom!

uncle tom wrote:With the numbers attending, I would suggest leaving out the Bomfims - perhaps a complete twelve vintage lineup from 1960 to 1994..?

That was the "bit more thought" I was thinking about; it would be excellent if we can get enough bottles and people together.

Outstanding idea, Tom.

Axel

OK. In the absence of anyone having objected, I declare the date to be Tuesday 7th September for the Dow vertical.

I like the idea of a complete lineup from X to Y. Does anyone have any preference as to when we start and when we finish? I have a Dow 1958 we could open so we have three choices:
(a) 1958 - 1991 (12 vintages, which we could manage even if only between 8 of us)
(b) 1960 - 1994
(c) something else

I am curious to know what the 1994 is like as I am not opening many bottles from this vintage at the moment, but neither have I ever tried the 1958 Dow before.

Help!! What shall we choose to do?

And we'll taste these blind. The challenge will be to put them into the correct chronological sequence and the winner will be the one who gets most right! Their prize will be to take home a sample bottle of the vintage of their choice.

Well, I was planning to contribute my 1994. Personally, I don't see any reason we can't extend the period from 1958-1994 and just make it 13 for 8 overs.

Chris Doty wrote:Well, I was planning to contribute my 1994. Personally, I don't see any reason we can't extend the period from 1958-1994 and just make it 13 for 8 overs.

These offlines (ie. not a tasting) have a habit of growing bigger uncontrollably. I will do everything I can to keep the event to no more than 12 bottles if we have only 8 people coming along.

Of course, if you can persuade a ninth person to join us then we could add another bottle or two...

Dow were a bit careless in their early post war years when it came to distinguishing between the blend and Bomfim. I think, (I may be wrong..) that the '58 was a Bomfim and not a declared blend.

'94 falls below my normal radar for maturation (just..), but I recently had the opportunity to compare Dow '85 with Vesuvio '94, and was struck by the similarity of their maturity. It would therefore be interesting to see how the Dow '94 compares with its older siblings..

Tom

OK chaps. I've updated the title to reflect the date and theme.

Rather than ask Tom to supply all the bottles, how about posting here what you would be able to contribute to the vertical and we'll try and share the burden between us - and recognise Wolfgang went beyond the call of duty by providing two bottles at last night's 1970 tasting.

I have '58, '63, '70, '77, '85 and '91.

The only Dow in my UK arsenal is the 1994. Happy to seek others out as need be.

Axel has asked me to provide an '80 on his behalf, and I had better be the source of the '72, as they are hard to find.

Tom

Sad, that you guys can put together a dow tasting and have more interested parties then US in the states considering we've already filled out every dow from 60 onwards - the 72.

g-man wrote:Sad, that you guys can put together a dow tasting and have more interested parties then US in the states considering we've already filled out every dow from 60 onwards - the 72.

So what are you guys doing and where on September 7th? Fancy a quick visit to the UK?

Here's a summary of the status of this tasting:

Venue - probably the Crusting Pipe, but not booked yet

Attending and wines - wines in bold are confirmed, wines in italics are available for adoption
AHB - 1958
AP - 1980 via Tom
BMHR - 1983
RLC - 1985 via Tom
CSD - 1994
JGH - 1977 via Alex
WS - 1963 via Alex
CMAG - 1970 via Tom
THRA - 1972 1975, 1960
MKD - 1991 via Tom

JDAW is not attending - 1977, 1970, 1966

Alex, since the ports we are going to drink there are definitely not equally priced, should we start thinking about the guys (like I) contributing only the 80 to bring an additional bottle of another Vintage. If we see the average 10-15% bottle failure this should leave us with a bottle each.

Axel

AHB wrote:These offlines (ie. not a tasting) have a habit of growing bigger uncontrollably.

Nonsense: the growth is entirely controlled. We keep stamping on the accelerator; it grows. Fabulous.

AHB wrote:I like the idea of a complete lineup from X to Y. Does anyone have any preference as to when we start and when we finish? I have a Dow 1958 we could open so we have three choices:
(a) 1958 - 1991 (12 vintages, which we could manage even if only between 8 of us)
(b) 1960 - 1994
(c) something else

AHB wrote:JDAW - 1966 1945

Spot the conflict! Presumably now seeking to fill 1945 to 1994.

jdaw1 wrote:

AHB wrote:I like the idea of a complete lineup from X to Y. Does anyone have any preference as to when we start and when we finish? I have a Dow 1958 we could open so we have three choices:
(a) 1958 - 1991 (12 vintages, which we could manage even if only between 8 of us)
(b) 1960 - 1994
(c) something else

AHB wrote:JDAW - 1966 1945

Spot the conflict! Presumably now seeking to fill 1945 to 1994.

I see no conflict. Twelve vintages from 1945 fits neatly into category (c).

My reluctance to move beyond 12 vintages was based on 8 people attending on a school night. Now we are up to 10, it seems reasonable to expand the line-up to 15 vintages if there was general support to do so. However, getting hold of Dow from 1955, 1950 and 1948 will be challenging. It would be easier to run from 1958 through to 2000 and perhaps keep your 1945 for another tasting themed "Venerable Dow" where bottles qualify if it is at least 55 years since the harvest.

I recently secured a Dow '48, but in very poor condition; I had it in mind to drink it through at the xmas bash.

I could furnish a '55, although I only have two odd bottles, one of them re-corked.

The '50 would be the issue though - it is very rarely seen, and would be go for silly money at the moment (until the 60th birthday market expires at the end of the year..)

Maybe better to stick with the original time frame, and either add some Bomfims if attendance rises, or double up on the '60, '63, '66 & '70 with comparisons between Oporto and English bottlings..

Tom

uncle tom wrote:double up on the '60, '63, '66 & '70 with comparisons between Oporto and English bottlings..

Any one of those vintages, with multiple UK bottlers, would be a tasting by itself.

See Comparing the bottlers on exactly this subject.

benread wrote:I am surprised that being the obsessive compulsives that we can be collectively, we have not pursued this with more vigour!

Hi there,

sorry for my late reply, but I was away fot the weekend. I think I have at my flat 1960, 1963, 1970, 1983, 1991 and 1985 (if I remember correctly the 1985 does belong to DrDirk and hence adpotion talks would need to take place )
However since I am moveing house in August it maybe difficult for me to find quickly the required bts. I am just not as organised as I should be. Hence I kindly ask for your understanding in advance and may need temporary adoption.
With regards to the number of bts I think the more bts the merrier

Just think in case we would run out again

regards

WS1

As well as ’45 and ’66, I also have ’70 and ’77, as do others.

First draft of the placemats. Much work to do.

• ”“Bottle labels;
• ”“Decanter labels;
• ”“Place names; but
• +Prepour sheets.

I would be voting to put in one of the 55s from Tom and the 45 from Julian and split the costs.

Axel

Axel P wrote:I would be voting to put in one of the 55s from Tom and the 45 from Julian and split the costs.

Axel

I would prefer to have another Dow vertical at another time, one which looks to run through a complete (or as complete as we can get) vertical of Dow from the years before 1958. The reason that I say this is because we have several of the bottles we would need already. I have 1908 and 1934; Julian has 1945; Tom has 1955; in a year or two we should be able to buy 1950 quite cheaply; and then we might get lucky and be able to buy a 1912 or 1927 or get enough people together to make it worth buying and opening that 1896 20-bottle bottle that Julian knows about.

So my vote is to hold those really old bottles of Dow for another time.

I have semi-promised AHB that he will be there when the D45 is opened. Subject to that, I’ll go with consensus.

Also, because of the book research I know of a witty occasion, relating to the great depression, when Dow 1904 was opened. Let’s have one of those too.

I would prefer to have another Dow vertical at another time, one which looks to run through a complete (or as complete as we can get) vertical of Dow from the years before 1958. The reason that I say this is because we have several of the bottles we would need already. I have 1908 and 1934; Julian has 1945; Tom has 1955; in a year or two we should be able to buy 1950 quite cheaply; and then we might get lucky and be able to buy a 1912 or 1927 or get enough people together to make it worth buying and opening that 1896 20-bottle bottle that Julian knows about.

So my vote is to hold those really old bottles of Dow for another time

I would go along with that, and have a longer term plan to hold a classic Dow vertical with a member of the Symington family present.

Tom

My contribution will be the Dow 1985 adopted from Tom

Cookie wrote:My contribution will be the Dow 1985 adopted from Tom

List dutifully updated

jdaw1 wrote:First draft of the placemats. Much work to do.

• ”“Bottle labels;
• ”“Decanter labels;
• ”“Place names; but
• +Prepour sheets.

Just noticed a small correction required in that the D85 on the placemat shows AHB and should read RLC.

Updated draft of the placemats.

• Cookie wrote:Just noticed a small correction required in that the D85 on the placemat shows AHB and should read RLC.

WS1 wrote:Hi there,

sorry for my late reply, but I was away fot the weekend. I think I have at my flat 1960, 1963, 1970, 1983, 1991 and 1985 (if I remember correctly the 1985 does belong to DrDirk and hence adpotion talks would need to take place )
However since I am moveing house in August it maybe difficult for me to find quickly the required bts. I am just not as organised as I should be. Hence I kindly ask for your understanding in advance and may need temporary adoption.
With regards to the number of bts I think the more bts the merrier

Just think in case we would run out again

regards

WS1

Wolfgang,

How about I lend you a bottle of the Dow 1963, which you give back to me when your house move is complete and you have your wine collection back in order?

Alex

Subject to confirmation from Wolfgang and Jacob, the Dow line up shown here is the final line up for Tuesday fortnight.

Alex