ThePortForum.com

Anyone tried this?

Virgin have it for £12.99, so I'm thinking it might make a good alternative to Fonseca Bin 27 as a normal drinking port...

Alan

This is not a shipper that I've heard of before, although it may be that Port is a new venture for it based on the fact that the website lists only table wines.

The importer lists some more details:

Gauntleys wrote:The man behind Odisseia Wines is Jean-Hugues Gros, the creator of the first wines from Quinta das Heredias. As the quinta changed hands in late 2006, Jean-Hugues decided it was time to move onto pastures new, and to devote more of his time to his Odsseia wine label, which he began in 2004.
[...]
The grapes are specially selected from Vines owned by the Quinta de Baldias, where Jean-Hugues is the consultant wine maker. The blend of the Ruby Port is made up of Tinta Roriz, Touriga Franca and Tinot Barroca. Vinification takes place in stainless steel tanks with constant pumping over to extract the maximum colour and flavour from the must. The wine is then aged in a combination of large wooden tanks (40%) and stainless steel tanks (60%). A final blend is then made by adding this wine to a 5 year old base wine, so that the final product is a port of deep colour, mixing the complexity of the wood aged wine with the freshness of the younger wine.

I wonder if it really has no Touriga Nacional in the blend? That would be an unusual choice. Otherwise it all looks good: some old and new wines in the blend, from a single-quinta. The Gauntley offer of 6 for £62.53 looks like a reasonable price for this sort of Port, too. I might be tempted to try it and see!

JacobH wrote: I wonder if it really has no Touriga Nacional in the blend? That would be an unusual choice. Otherwise it all looks good: some old and new wines in the blend, from a single-quinta. The Gauntley offer of 6 for £62.53 looks like a reasonable price for this sort of Port, too. I might be tempted to try it and see!

quinta de roriz does that too and i can say i'm not really a fan. it gives ti a weird green bell pepper taste

g-man wrote:quinta de roriz does that too and i can say i'm not really a fan. it gives ti a weird green bell pepper taste

The blending of old and new wines or the fact that it doesn't have an Touriga Nacional?

JacobH wrote:

g-man wrote:quinta de roriz does that too and i can say i'm not really a fan. it gives ti a weird green bell pepper taste

The blending of old and new wines or the fact that it doesn't have an Touriga Nacional?

the fact that the blend is probably a tinta roriz majority blend. I've always felt it was a greenish flavor type of grape that's a bit hollow on the palate. Sneaking in some touriga nacional to balance out the palate makes a whole world of difference in my opinion.

g-man wrote:the fact that the blend is probably a tinta roriz majority blend. I've always felt it was a greenish flavor type of grape that's a bit hollow on the palate. Sneaking in some touriga nacional to balance out the palate makes a whole world of difference in my opinion.

You mean you'd like to drink Port rather than a fortified Rioja!

JacobH wrote:

g-man wrote:the fact that the blend is probably a tinta roriz majority blend. I've always felt it was a greenish flavor type of grape that's a bit hollow on the palate. Sneaking in some touriga nacional to balance out the palate makes a whole world of difference in my opinion.

You mean you'd like to drink Port rather than a fortified Rioja!

spoken like a wise man

Alan,

I bought some of these from Virgin and they make good every day drinkers. I opened one last Sunday funnily enough and got quite a lot of sediment, which I had not got from the last bottle I opened.

g-man wrote:

JacobH wrote:

g-man wrote:quinta de roriz does that too and i can say i'm not really a fan. it gives ti a weird green bell pepper taste

The blending of old and new wines or the fact that it doesn't have an Touriga Nacional?

the fact that the blend is probably a tinta roriz majority blend. I've always felt it was a greenish flavor type of grape that's a bit hollow on the palate. Sneaking in some touriga nacional to balance out the palate makes a whole world of difference in my opinion.

Often times that greenish flavor you refer to comes from too much stem inclusion during fermentation which imparts green tannins to the flavor. But can also come from certain terriors or by picking to early as well.

I'm curious in what way you feel Touriga Nacional balances out a wine compared to other grapes?

Thanks for that guys, I think i'll risk a case, seems appropriate as my status is "Cheap Ruby" now...

Andy Velebil wrote:I'm curious in what way you feel Touriga Nacional balances out a wine compared to other grapes?

I though that touriga nacional is now regarded as one of the two most important grapes in producing Port wine; do you think that it has no more effect on the blend than any other component?

Tinta Roriz has a very distinctive taste profile to me. I feel most of it could be attributed to underripe picking as you've mentioned Andy. Some of it to just overcrushing of stems. Alot of the riojas i've tried and some of the portugese wines making pure tinta roriz have always felt underwhelming and greenish and could use a blending to mellow out what I feel are flaws.

But I will clarify and say that not all tinta roriz are inherently thin. The recent bottles coming out of the rioja region recently are insanely dense, but they feel unbalanced/lacking in that rounded out cocoa powder taste profile that a cabernet or touriga nacional can bring to the table. too much acidity and not enough of that "milkiness" richness.

It doesn't require much, but i feel it could make a world of difference.

JacobH wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote:I'm curious in what way you feel Touriga Nacional balances out a wine compared to other grapes?

I though that touriga nacional is now regarded as one of the two most important grapes in producing Port wine; do you think that it has no more effect on the blend than any other component?

Sorry if this came across as a bit direct: it was supposed to be an honest question as to whether touriga nacional is more important than many other grapes in a Port blend.

In an odd coincidence, I tried some of Casal dos Jordões tawny tonight which is the same blend as the Odisseia Special. Not sure the impact of that blend on a basic tawny, though...

Gman, the further explaination makes much more sense thanks.

Jacob, no worries, I understood exactly what you were trying to get at. To answer your question, yes there is a big push to make TN the prominate varietal. It's quite interesting to watch this as prior to phyloxera you can hardly find any mention of TN in books. Back then one of the highly regarded and often mentioned grapes was Sousao, which is only now starting to see a small comeback with Vesuvio's Capela, Noval Nacional, and even a Douro dry wine from Quinta do Vallado.

While I understand almost all wine regions are known for one particular grape, I'm not sure the massive push to make TN is the answer. I've had a number of dry wines from this grape, even ones with 10+ years of age, and while good they don't have the complexity to make a great wine. Most producers TN wines I've had have been at one end of the spectrum or the other. In other words they either make a very nice wine or just a so-so wine when using only TN grapes. No matter, they still don't have the complexity that blends achieve and that shows even more as they age.

As for Port, every producer and winemaker I've talked to doesn't think this or any other grape can make a truly outstanding Port on its own. Blending is where it's at and where TN lies in that scheme is something I feel most of the producers are still getting a handle on. While it's been around for a long time, TN is still a relatively new grape in the big scheme of things. Only recently the number of vines of TN only started to increase, mainly in the late 1970's and early 1980's when a lot of replanting was being done into specific blocks of vines did TN start its slow increase. And even now TN makes up a very small percent of the overall grapes grown in the Douro. Yet you would think by how much it gets mentioned it would be the overwhelming majority.

So in the scheme of things TN, and harvesting/vinifying grapes separetly, is still somewhat new in overall the history of Port. It will be interesting to see how things play out in the coming decades.

Andy Velebil wrote:Jacob, no worries, I understood exactly what you were trying to get at. To answer your question, yes there is a big push to make TN the prominate varietal. It's quite interesting to watch this as prior to phyloxera you can hardly find any mention of TN in books. Back then one of the highly regarded and often mentioned grapes was Sousao, which is only now starting to see a small comeback with Vesuvio's Capela, Noval Nacional, and even a Douro dry wine from Quinta do Vallado.

One striking feature of 19th and early-20th Century writing on Port (and to a lesser extent, other wines) is how little mention there is of the grape varietals at all, since I imagine that the shippers did not have much knowledge of what was in each field and even less what ended up in the final blend. I also wonder, because a Port blend is usually made for 5 for more varietals, how much proper experimentation is taking and can take place? For example, would adding a slug of the Tinto sem Nome--to choose one amusingly-name approved variety--to the standard blend improve it? And if not, is that because no-one is growing Tinto sem Nome in the right places for long enough to produce high quality fruit?