ThePortForum.com

Reposted from Sarah Ahmed's blog, she recently attended a very interesting Symington tasting.

I'm slightly upset by the dissing she gave the Bomfim '65 - doesn't she know how rare this wine is? But maybe she had a bad bottle...

i must admit i find it offensive to see some tasting notes with words like "cafe crème", "patina" (which has no value in the tn context either), "lacy", "sucrosity"

which just screams BS to me and one that forces me to roll my eyes whenever I have to read such tn's.

But it was a pretty decent read of an artcile

AHB wrote:
I'm slightly upset by the dissing she gave the Bomfim '65 - doesn't she know how rare this wine is? But maybe she had a bad bottle...

I have never had a Bomfim '65, but how does the fact that it is rare relate to how it should taste?

Anyway -- seems like a great opportunity for the author, and the photos are beautiful.

Will happily drink a vial of '65 Bomfim should one happily make its way to my postbox.

Chris Doty wrote:

AHB wrote:
I'm slightly upset by the dissing she gave the Bomfim '65 - doesn't she know how rare this wine is? But maybe she had a bad bottle...

I have never had a Bomfim '65, but how does the fact that it is rare relate to how it should taste?

I don't think it affects how it should taste, but I do think that it affects the way you write about it - at least it does for me.

Chris Doty wrote:Anyway -- seems like a great opportunity for the author, and the photos are beautiful.

Will happily drink a vial of '65 Bomfim should one happily make its way to my postbox.

Very unlikely. There was only a pipe of this port made and the only bottle I know to have been outside the Symington cellars was drunk in the Douro in mid-October.

But I'll keep your generous offer in mind if I ever come across a bottle.

AHB wrote: I'm slightly upset by the dissing she gave the Bomfim '65 - doesn't she know how rare this wine is? But maybe she had a bad bottle...

Had to be a bad bottle. I've had this once, a few weeks ago and it was very nice with no VA or other issues. A shame she didn't get to enjoy what this rare Port has to offer.

Rather odd lineup, and notes that contain too much obvious pretension to be taken very seriously.

Tom

The line up appears to showcase various single quinta's, so that would probably explain.

The line up appears to showcase various single quinta's, so that would probably explain.

Yes, but heavy on some years, one on some, and nothing from most of the interesting SQ years within the timeframe, whilst at the same time a rarity was thrown into the equation, that clearly wasn't appreciated!

Tom

AHB wrote:
I don't think it affects how it should taste, but I do think that it affects the way you write about it - at least it does for me.

Very unlikely. There was only a pipe of this port made and the only bottle I know to have been outside the Symington cellars was drunk in the Douro in mid-October.

But I'll keep your generous offer in mind if I ever come across a bottle.

As I have come to appreciate and respect, a very correct / accurate / funny reply from AHB.

Keep up the good work!

ps -- any word on a trip Stateside?

Chris Doty wrote:ps -- any word on a trip Stateside?

No

The only frustration that I have with my job is that my travel is now entirely short-haul. The trip to the US that I thought had been lined up for December has been canned. It seems now that any long haul travel is purely personal.

We (as in my better half and I) are planning a few visits to the US for vacations, but the first of these is unlikely to be before 2013...and then that is probably going to be a driving holiday around the south western states.

I agree - it does seem an unusual selection of ports by the Symingtons (though i certainly wouldn't have refused an invitation!), and interesting that they are putting the Vesuvio into tastings alongside these types of wines rather than alongside G/D/W proper.

However, I'm sure there was some sort of logic to their selection - I know that at least one person from BBR attended and i was notified of the potential opportunity to buy magnums of Malvedos 79 from BBR very quickly off the back of it, so maybe in part they were showcasing a number of wines that they have stock to sell (with the '65s etc. thrown in for the sake of interest/education).

I actually enjoyed the article a lot and think the criticism of the TNs is harsh, though i do prefer TNs by professional critics that give scores (with the hope that, over time, you can gauge whether you like the wines that they like and that in turn informs your purchasing decisions) - but i realise not all will agree and that not all critics will want to give scores.

RAYC wrote:I actually enjoyed the article a lot and think the criticism of the TNs is harsh, though i do prefer TNs by professional critics that give scores (with the hope that, over time, you can gauge whether you like the wines that they like and that in turn informs your purchasing decisions) - but i realise not all will agree and that not all critics will want to give scores.

Though i wasn't quite sure about the following comment re: Malvedos '79....!

"Simply lovely ”“ you almost forget it’s a Port!"

Is this a good thing? Doesn't sound like it to me. Seems to be the other side of the coin from when those Rhone special cuvees are criticised for being too "port-like"!

RAYC wrote:I agree - it does seem an unusual selection of ports by the Symingtons (though i certainly wouldn't have refused an invitation!), and interesting that they are putting the Vesuvio into tastings alongside these types of wines rather than alongside G/D/W proper.

However, I'm sure there was some sort of logic to their selection - I know that at least one person from BBR attended and i was notified of the potential opportunity to buy magnums of Malvedos 79 from BBR very quickly off the back of it, so maybe in part they were showcasing a number of wines that they have stock to sell (with the '65s etc. thrown in for the sake of interest/education).

I actually enjoyed the article a lot and think the criticism of the TNs is harsh, though i do prefer TNs by professional critics that give scores (with the hope that, over time, you can gauge whether you like the wines that they like and that in turn informs your purchasing decisions) - but i realise not all will agree and that not all critics will want to give scores.

Since Vesuvio is a Single Quinta Port, this is a tasting where it would fit in perfectly. And the '65 is still available for sale at the Graham's Lodge as of a few weeks ago when I was there.

Andy Velebil wrote:

RAYC wrote:I agree - it does seem an unusual selection of ports by the Symingtons (though i certainly wouldn't have refused an invitation!), and interesting that they are putting the Vesuvio into tastings alongside these types of wines rather than alongside G/D/W proper.

However, I'm sure there was some sort of logic to their selection - I know that at least one person from BBR attended and i was notified of the potential opportunity to buy magnums of Malvedos 79 from BBR very quickly off the back of it, so maybe in part they were showcasing a number of wines that they have stock to sell (with the '65s etc. thrown in for the sake of interest/education).

I actually enjoyed the article a lot and think the criticism of the TNs is harsh, though i do prefer TNs by professional critics that give scores (with the hope that, over time, you can gauge whether you like the wines that they like and that in turn informs your purchasing decisions) - but i realise not all will agree and that not all critics will want to give scores.

Since Vesuvio is a Single Quinta Port, this is a tasting where it would fit in perfectly. And the '65 is still available for sale at the Graham's Lodge as of a few weeks ago when I was there.

Agreed, but as well as being Single Quinta Ports, the Bomfim, Cavadinha and Malvedos are (rightly or wrongly) regarded also as "second wines" that are produced when a full declaration of the first wine is not made. This is where those wines differ from Vesuvio, which is a stand-alone brand that aims to compete with all the big boys and has its own TVV/Nacional-type wine in the Capela. I think the quote from one of the Symingtons that they feel it can produce a VP that is in the top 4 of every vintage is telling as to their aims with this vineyard and the positioning of the brand, which is why i thought it strange that it should be in a tasting with their second/third string wines rather than alongside their most prestigious wines.

i bought the 79 malvedos mag at the lodge but more for birth year reasons

TN can be personal, but some have more BS then others.

RayC, I pose you a question. Tell me what "patina" tastes like.

g-man wrote:TN can be personal, but some have more BS then others.

Agreed - and i have no idea how good her TNs are generally regarded - but from a personal perspective there were a couple of places where her way of explaining certain characteristics of a port reminded me of certain tastes that i have experienced in port but been unable to elucidate. Given that I'm rarely able to get much further than general impressions (mature/not mature; i like this/i don't like this; better than the last bottle/worse than the last bottle), it was an interesting read for me. Now whether her descriptions actually bore any relation to the ports....i'll let others speculate! The only bit i took objection to was the use of "port" as if it was a dirty word!

g-man wrote:RayC, I pose you a question. Tell me what "patina" tastes like.

I had to google patina, and briefly considered licking an old copper coin to find out, but i think here she is using "patina" not as a "taste" in its own right but to describe the fact that the port has acquired certain charcteristics of age over its time in the bottle (eg: cafe creme, dried herbs etc.).

RAYC wrote:

g-man wrote:RayC, I pose you a question. Tell me what "patina" tastes like.

I had to google patina, and briefly considered licking an old copper coin to find out, but i think here she is using "patina" not as a "taste" in its own right but to describe the fact that the port has acquired certain charcteristics of age over its time in the bottle (eg: cafe creme, dried herbs etc.).

and what aged characteristics would patina describe in a drink?

If i wrote the following tasting note on a white burgundy that included,
Pain grille, moonlit, peacock’s tail and white flowers, would you really be able to guess teh flavors?

g-man wrote:and what aged characteristics would patina describe in a drink?

I'm not sure why you have a problem with the use of the word. Here's her usage...

Sarah Ahmed wrote:There’s a delicate patina of age...

Which, to me, seems like a perfectly acceptable usage of the word patina. It's not really any different than saying that there's a thin veneer of age showing. Both are just fancy ways of saying that the Port is properly displaying its age.

Glenn E. wrote:

g-man wrote:and what aged characteristics would patina describe in a drink?

I'm not sure why you have a problem with the use of the word. Here's her usage...

Sarah Ahmed wrote:There’s a delicate patina of age...

Which, to me, seems like a perfectly acceptable usage of the word patina. It's not really any different than saying that there's a thin veneer of age showing. Both are just fancy ways of saying that the Port is properly displaying its age.

veneer would be just as full of p()p as patina.

I don't mind "veneer" as much, especially since the analogy of "layers" and "depth" are commonly used in description (e.g. "an initial thin veneer of sweetness in the mouth quickly gives way to a deeper, fuller flavour" or suchlike). I suppose "patina" could be used similarly (that's the very thin, usually patchy/flaky top layer, right?) though personally I find the analogy a bit too stretched and seeming a little pretentious. To be fair though, my tasting notes would likely seem rather straightforward and blunt and probably lacking in suitable description to evoke any true sense; I'm better with maths

We all have our styles - Phil likes to be blunt in his tasting notes, Derek likes to taste melons, I'm probably over the top in trying to pick out flavours but we might all be in danger of taking life too seriously.

At least with my tasting notes, please don't see them as being any more sophisticsted than an attempt by me to convey whether I liked, disliked or was neutral about a port and if I liked it, what I liked.

The Scion note is a good example - I sniffed and I thought "Yup, overhyped and over-rated". Then I took a sip and thought "Bloomin' 'eck, that's not what I was expecting. That's pretty damn good." And then the aftertaste and finish kicked in and I simply though "Wow. That is good. If I was in the market for £2,500 bottles of colheita I'd buy some of those."

Did that come across? (Honest, but sensitively written, opinions would be valued. After all, I post my tasting notes on this forum for others to read and not for my own benefit. I keep them on my PC for my own use.)

AHB wrote:We all have our styles - Phil likes to be blunt in his tasting notes, Derek likes to taste melons, I'm probably over the top in trying to pick out flavours but we might all be in danger of taking life too seriously.

There's a distinction between a note that picks out flavours whether they be over the top/blunt/melons (which I actaully find incredibly useful) than note with words as esoteric as patina or as frivolous as sucrosity.

If you had posted your scion note with:
Showing a patina of age, backed with a rectitude and linearity of orange zest with a tinge of salty minerality on the nose finishing with a stalky sucrosity that you almost forget it's port!

I'd seriously call bs on your note too

g-man wrote:salty minerality on the nose

ROFL

Okay, that's a good one.