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Over on FTLOP, John is looking to organise a 20 year old tawny tasting along the same lines as the Ruby Reserve tasting we held in January. John is looking to have these tastings held in October.

Key bottles are:
Ramos Pinto Bom Retiro (with Taylor or Noval as subs, if unavailable)
Ferreira
Sandeman

We don't have any offlines planned for October yet, so I am happy to include this 20 yo tasting into our first October offline.

Does anyone have any of these 20 yo tawnies that they would be willing to contribute towards the tasting?

Thanks.

Unfortunately i do not...but I might do in a few months

We could look to acquire specifically for this tasting - Lea and Sandeman have Sandeman, Fortnums have RP, Ferreira is available online (albeit there wouldn't be change out of £45, taking into account postage), BBR have Noval, Taylor is widely available.

Reading this, i am now kicking myself for not bringing back a 20 yr San Leonardo from Porto (plumped for the 30 SL instead!).

I still hope to attend Axel's daddy-of-all 20 yr tastings in Leverkeusen link (though Sandeman, Ferreira and RP are not represented there, so little overlap with this tasting)

i meant to add, i do now have Andresen 20 available for this (if it is going ahead...).

It would be great if you could put a group together. The whole idea started with 20s that we could get easily--hence the initial list (which is small) and can be expanded depending on your group size and motivation. My group is having six:

Ferreira **
Taylor
Sandeman **
Niepoort
Quinta do Noval
Ramos Pinto Bom Retiro **

We thought is another 6 months to a year the best three could square off against some new challengers. Initial three are denoted by an asterisk.

Shall we set an October date first, see who is available for that date, and then work out whether there's any interest in trying some 20yrs or whether we go with some other tasting.

All on that list are acquirable, though of dubious QPR imho (Niepoort is likely to be £60ish, Ferreira £45ish - a couple of very nice VPs for that price...). But for a one-off tasting with the cost split, maybe not so painful. I'd be keen to swap out the Noval and Taylor for something more interesting (have had many times, and not overly-excited by them), though happy to go with consensus.

I am happy to do the leg work on the 20s, if that makes a difference.

Or we could have a more general ABV tasting (ABV III never got off the ground due to scheduling, for instance). We could have a few 20s as an amuse-bouche (collective purchase) before moving on to other things.

Provisionally interested, although dates in October are a little tricky.
On the plus side, I am going to be in Lisbon airport next week and therefore might be able to pick up an elusive 20yo.
S

RAYC wrote:We could have a few 20s as an amuse-bouche (collective purchase) before moving on to other things.

Excellent idea. Count me in.

RAYC wrote:Or we could have a more general ABV tasting (ABV III never got off the ground due to scheduling, for instance). We could have a few 20s as an amuse-bouche (collective purchase) before moving on to other things.

I like the idea of ABV3, featuring 3 20 year old tawnies.

I don't own any 20yo tawnies, but I'm sure I have something to contribute to the next course that meets the criterion of ABV.

AHB wrote:

RAYC wrote:Or we could have a more general ABV tasting (ABV III never got off the ground due to scheduling, for instance). We could have a few 20s as an amuse-bouche (collective purchase) before moving on to other things.

I like the idea of ABV3, featuring 3 20 year old tawnies.

I don't own any 20yo tawnies, but I'm sure I have something to contribute to the next course that meets the criterion of ABV.

Should I be free on the date then the same goes for me.

I would certainly be keen for this (though I appreciate I might be in a slight minority on this side of the Pond for liking the occasional tawny or two!). Some 20-year-old tawny Ports are very fine wines indeed. The Niepoort and Ramos Pinto are top-level Ports, and if not cheap at their price, are worth clubbing together to try once in a while. Incidentally, I’m sure we can get the Niepoort by a bit of shopping around.

Out of the list, I wasn’t very impressed with the Sandeman when I tried it last, nor the Taylor which just didn’t seem that interesting. But I am happy to be proven wrong! It might also be fun to compare a normal 20-year-old Noval to the Berry’s William Pickering 20-year-old and I could throw in a Barros, too.

JacobH wrote:I would certainly be keen for this (though I appreciate I might be in a slight minority on this side of the Pond for liking the occasional tawny or two!). Some 20-year-old tawny Ports are very fine wines indeed. The Niepoort and Ramos Pinto are top-level Ports, and if not cheap at their price, are worth clubbing together to try once in a while. Incidentally, I’m sure we can get the Niepoort by a bit of shopping around.

Out of the list, I wasn’t very impressed with the Sandeman when I tried it last, nor the Taylor which just didn’t seem that interesting. But I am happy to be proven wrong! It might also be fun to compare a normal 20-year-old Noval to the Berry’s William Pickering 20-year-old and I could throw in a Barros, too.

Chaps, I know what you are thinking. But Jacob is young and we should be mature enough to let him have his head for a few years to "find himself" and learn through experience which type of Port a gentleman should favour. Please don't condemn him, we were all young and disillusioned once upon a time. I am sure Jacob will see the light one day soon

JacobH wrote: The Niepoort and Ramos Pinto are top-level Ports, and if not cheap at their price, are worth clubbing together to try once in a while. Incidentally, I’m sure we can get the Niepoort by a bit of shopping around.

Out of the list, I wasn’t very impressed with the Sandeman when I tried it last, nor the Taylor which just didn’t seem that interesting. But I am happy to be proven wrong! It might also be fun to compare a normal 20-year-old Noval to the Berry’s William Pickering 20-year-old and I could throw in a Barros, too.

Niepoort is available at uncorked nr Liverpool st.

RP at Fortnums i think.

I must admit i thought Sandeman would be right up your street - i thought it was head and shoulders above at the BFT. On the basis of a bottle i had last week, i think Andresen is also worthy of being mentioned in the same company.

DRT wrote:Chaps, I know what you are thinking. But Jacob is young and we should be mature enough to let him have his head for a few years to "find himself" and learn through experience which type of Port a gentleman should favour. Please don't condemn him, we were all young and disillusioned once upon a time. I am sure Jacob will see the light one day soon

**speculates on when DRT managed to kick his 20-year-old Ferreira habit...**

RAYC wrote: I must admit i thought Sandeman would be right up your street - i thought it was head and shoulders above at the BFT. On the basis of a bottle i had last week, i think Andresen is also worthy of being mentioned in the same company.

It was a couple of years ago I last had it (I think), in Quinta do Seixo’s tasting room and it just didn’t seem very tawny to me. But it may be they’ve changed the blend since then. The other one I’d like to try is the 20-year-old Otima since the new blend for the 10-year-old seems pretty impressive.

JacobH wrote:

DRT wrote:Chaps, I know what you are thinking. But Jacob is young and we should be mature enough to let him have his head for a few years to "find himself" and learn through experience which type of Port a gentleman should favour. Please don't condemn him, we were all young and disillusioned once upon a time. I am sure Jacob will see the light one day soon

**speculates on when DRT managed to kick his 20-year-old Ferreira habit...**

Shhhh! I thought we had agreed not to talk about that in public?

With the Delaforce '58 tasting now planned for either 8th or 15th October, we are probably now looking at a date in late October or early November for our next "Anything But Vintage (including 20 yo tawnies)" tasting. Does this sound OK to people?

Fine by me.

In order to facilitate this happening, i made an executive decision and have now acquired a good line-up of 20 yr ports (including all the big names discussed in the FTLOP thread, and some unusual ones to pit against them). Tasting can of course be scaled to suit the size of the group...but i figure if we're going to do it, why not be completist and do a big one?

But if there's no enthusiasm and it doesn't go ahead - no worries, i'll just work my way casually through 12 different 20 year olds over the next year!

I'd suggest semi blind (i.e - you know what ports are in the line-up, but not which is which).

Cookie - this sounds like a tasting that you should be at....what is your availability end of this month / early November?

How about Monday October 29th?

Although I admit that I prefer the idea of some ruby port as well as tawny port. Perhaps an opportunity to open some of the recently delivered LBV as round 2 after the 20 year old tawnies?

RAYC wrote:In order to facilitate this happening, i made an executive decision and have now acquired a good line-up of 20 yr ports

Subject to permission for the date, include me in.

AHB wrote:Although I admit that I prefer the idea of some ruby port as well as tawny port. Perhaps an opportunity to open some of the recently delivered LBV as round 2 after the 20 year old tawnies?

A good idea - I am quite happy for the 20yr line-up to be scaled back, then do a Warre / SW LBV vertical....(or we could soften the burden of having to taste tawny for DRT even further by just going for a few nice VPs as a reward....!)

I have never tasted a wide range of tawnies before - where does palate fatigue come in? Six - eight 20 yr olds would give us a nice range, and the bottles can be taken home rather than go to waste if (as is likely) they are not finished off on the night.

Mon 29th works for me.

RAYC wrote:I have never tasted a wide range of tawnies before - where does palate fatigue come in?

Shortly after taking the first sip of the first glass.

Please could this be a tasting of 20Y tawnies. Not a few 20Y followed by other stuff, but a proper tasting of 20-year tawnies.

Because they won’t need to finished on the day we could open more bottles than is customary.

Those who don’t like whisky should not attend a whisky tasting. Those who don’t like 20Y, and aren’t willing to experiment, should not attend this event.

i initially had a marginal preference for a pure 20yr tasting, but nowhere near as strong as Alex's preferred format for the evening.

And, on reflection, i became worried that including more than 6-8 20yr tawnies would make the tasting quite hard on the palate and the ports would start to feel bit samey (and not in a good way).

But i am happy to try the pure 20yr line-up (say, 10-12 bottles that are on the UK market today, and a few extras if we can manage to pair some of those new releases with Tom's stock of 20yrs which have some bottle age). It's not something that we will do often.

so you guys fight it out!

If there is a 20 year tawny tasting on the 29th October at the Bunghole, and that is by pure coincidence the same day as I decide to eat my evening meal at the Bunghole accompanied by a bottle of port of my choice, then I shall be sure to wave to you in the big room and toast you with a glass of my Fonseca '63 (or other ruby port) whilst laughing at your palate fatigue that occured after the first sip of your first glass.

I'm not hugely enamoured at the thought of having to work my way diligently through 20 different glasses of 20 yo tawny. Even on the rare occasions when I have worked through 4 or 5 different tawnies, I have struggled and felt relief when a glass of ruby port appeared. 20 different tawnies would be an academic exercise which would test my stamina and ability to write meaningful notes with a mouth full of sugar.

For now, I'm minded to pass on the 20 year tawny tasting but I'm willing to make up numbers nearer the time if needed, subject to other diary commitments.

I am free on 29th October and will happily bring along a Fonseca 77 to accompany AHB's Fonseca 63 so that he and I have enough to drink whilst watching everyone else pucker their way through 20 bottles of 20 yr old tawny.

ok - i'll attend both tastings using a Mrs Doubtfire-type routine.

I'll bring Ck 63 for AHB's tasting.

For the 20yr tasting, i have the following (some, or even all, of which could be used):

Andresen
Churchill
Delaforce Curious & Ancient
Ferreira
Offley
Niepoort
Ramos Pinto
Sandeman
Warre Otima
Wiese & Krohn

I could press "go" on an order for Taylor, Noval, Osborne if more were needed, but i am unexcited by Taylor / Noval and i'm sure Tom has better options

Busy the next morning Have fun gentlemen.

Why dont you guys come to Germany and taste 20+ 20y old Tawnies there on Nov 9th?

Axel

RAYC wrote:I'd suggest semi blind (i.e - you know what ports are in the line-up, but not which is which).

The more you keep hidden, the better. When we did the Ruby Reserve Taste-Off, it was effectively double blind for everyone but me and the results were quite surprising.

No need to tell everyone what's in the lineup... keep it blind to get the best results. You might surprise yourselves.

Glenn E. wrote:

RAYC wrote:I'd suggest semi blind (i.e - you know what ports are in the line-up, but not which is which).

The more you keep hidden, the better. When we did the Ruby Reserve Taste-Off, it was effectively double blind for everyone but me and the results were quite surprising.

No need to tell everyone what's in the lineup... keep it blind to get the best results. You might surprise yourselves.

difficult now that i've announced what i've got!

but hopefully there are enough ringers in my shortlist of 10 (Otima, Churchill, Offley, Delaforce, Krohn) to make it worthwhile to do semi-blind against the more established tawnies (Ramos P., Sandeman, Ferreira, Niepoort, Andresen).

That is - if we go for 10 (looking unlikely)

Has the date been chosen? If yes, please could it be added to the title of the thread?

jdaw1 wrote:Has the date been chosen? If yes, please could it be added to the title of the thread?

I don't think it has been settled yet.

Given their relative enthusiasm for this, shall we try to find a date that both Griff and Jacob can make?

Doesn't preclude Oct 29th being a night for a tasting.

RAYC wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Has the date been chosen? If yes, please could it be added to the title of the thread?

I don't think it has been settled yet.

Given their relative enthusiasm for this, shall we try to find a date that both Griff and Jacob can make?

Doesn't preclude Oct 29th being a night for a tasting.

No need to organise around me. I'll make it if I can but it is a busy period.

Did this tasting ever take place?

We've held 3 versions of this in the US in the last 2 weeks, and John M. is going to be writing up an article on the results for Roy's newsletter like I did for the Ruby Reserve Taste-Off, so we'd like to include your results as well if possible.

Glenn E. wrote:Did this tasting ever take place?

We've held 3 versions of this in the US in the last 2 weeks, and John M. is going to be writing up an article on the results for Roy's newsletter like I did for the Ruby Reserve Taste-Off, so we'd like to include your results as well if possible.

I think a combination of availability and the requisite interest was lacking!

Disappointed in that result. I do thank you for the attempt.

Any effort to resurrect would be appreciated as I'd like to include your fine opinions herein.