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Cynthia posted on the Malvedos blog yesterday that the harvest has begun at Tua, with a parcel of young Tinta Amarela picked yesterday morning. A further parcel of Amarela and a parcel of Susao was planned to be picked this morning.

Has anyone seen any other harvest blogs or diaries other than Cynthia's?

And I've just noticed on the Taylor website that they announced that the first delivery of grapes into the Nogueira winery took place yesterday, with David Guimaraens saying positive things about the quality of the grapes.

There's definitely been a mood swing on the Malvedos site from gloom to moderate optimism, but I'm not getting much sense of excitement - or relief even - elsewhere.

But I'm still hopeful that we will see some fine concentrated wines from older vines this year. Whether there will any great quantity of good juice is another matter though.

The remnants of Hurricane Gordon, that I was watching a few weeks ago, spread over a wide area after the storm filled over the Azores, some of it reaching both the UK and the Douro - although the forecasters didn't think it would make it that far. Since then it has been once again dry.

There's another system on the way now called Nadine, whose rain cloud is likely to make landfall in europe at the end of next week. At the moment it looks likely to track very slightly to the south of Gordon's path, so it is possible that more of it's rain will reach Iberia.

Whilst a modest amount of rain might be beneficial to freshen the grapes, a deluge at that point in the harvest might be most unwelcome..

Nadine's progress has been getting slower and slower, and it will probably stall and fill to the south of the Azores over the next few days.

But it will leave a hell of a lot of water in the air that has to fall somewhere, and at the moment it looks more likely to tip down on Iberia rather than France, although both countries could see a most unwelcome and untimely drenching.

The system can be tracked here:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo_atl.shtml

and here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#pressure-map

With luck it will veer north and soak the UK - where we don't really care..

..but the odds look modest at this point..

Rain came today after several days during which it felt like high Douro summer. It has been hot in the vineyards. Thank goodness for cooling equipment because there were some days last week when the grapes where simply too warm coming into our wineries. In the old days my father and uncles would have been making very sweet Ports with very little colour because they would have had to run off the lagares when the fermentation temperatures got too high. But now we have cooling equipment. Cooling is not used every year, which is why some do not bother to invest in it, but in a week like the one that we have just had, it makes the difference between making great Ports or having some very disappointing wines. So last week was really quite good and the wines are very pleasing.
The rain came at about 5am this morning and it has been raining on and off all day. Because we have had virtually no rain all year (174 mm total to end August at Bomfim compared to the 21 year average of 400 mm), it actually feels very, very, good to see, hear and smell the rain falling across our vineyards. Many local villages have dry springs and are relying on water deliveries, all around us we have seen the results of the prolonged drought. But of course we want the rain to stop tonight. The forecast is no rain tomorrow and then showers for the rest of the week. If this holds true, then we will be fine as the grapes that will be picked this week are looking very fine despite the drought. As I write this the temperature outside is down to 16⁰ Centigrade, so we will not be cooling the musts over the next few days...

Thanks Paul!

Brilliant to hear direct from the Valley. Thanks Paul!

Thanks for doing this at such a busy time, Paul.

I talked with Dirk Niepoort about the quality of the harvest and the unusual conditions of this year.

The interview can be found on my website:

http://www.passion-port.de/berichte.php ... richtid=66

Overall I think the most wineries are really satisfied with quality of 2012, may be even better than 2011. The biggest problem was the small quantity.

christopherpfaff wrote:I talked with Dirk Niepoort about the quality of the harvest and the unusual conditions of this year.

The interview can be found on my website:

http://www.passion-port.de/berichte.php ... richtid=66

Overall I think the most wineries are really satisfied with quality of 2012, may be even better than 2011. The biggest problem was the small quantity.

Thanks for posting the link - very interesting to read what Dirk had to say.

Yes - many thanks

Is this correct (low acidity but high malic acid)?

But the fact that the acid was so low and the wines have much malic acid, that makes the wines fat and chubby, so that the wines quickly misses their freshness.

RAYC wrote:Yes - many thanks

Is this correct (low acidity but high malic acid)?

But the fact that the acid was so low and the wines have much malic acid, that makes the wines fat and chubby, so that the wines quickly misses their freshness.

i tihnk it's because the wines go through malolactic fermentation. high malic means that during fermentation it gets converted to lactic acid. (think milk)

I'd guess he's talking about a lack of tartaric acid?

but would love a winemaker to chime in.

Is this correct (low acidity but high malic acid)? But the fact that the acid was so low and the wines have much malic acid, that makes the wines fat and chubby, so that the wines quickly misses their freshness.

May be the translation (of course I talked to Dirk in German) is not 100% perfect. I think he means that in general the acid was low, so he had to harvest early, special for the Douro wines to keep freshness. But from this generally low acid is the percentage of the malic acid comparativly high.

christopherpfaff wrote:Overall I think the most wineries are really satisfied with quality of 2012, may be even better than 2011. The biggest problem was the small quantity.

I haven't talked to any producer about 2012, but I would be astounded if they were more enthusiastic about it than they were about 2011. 2012 has been a ridiculously challenging vintage from a weather point of view and there was general euphoria when the 2011 harvest came in.

Time will tell, but I strongly suspect we will have flags waving on St George's day 2013 and a whimper of SQVPs twelve months later.

Time will tell, but I strongly suspect we will have flags waving on St George's day 2013 and a whimper of SQVPs twelve months later.

That is certainly my general impression at this time, but the Taylor harvest report for this year (not yet published) will make interesting reading.

Taylor were less than ecstatic about 2011, and having declared '07 and '09 will probably set the bar high before declaring '11.

The Symingtons were very pessimistic about 2012 until the start of harvest, when the message radically changed.

If the major producers still have reasonable inventories of young VP, and with the market in the doldrums; they might reason that a 2012 declaration in 2014 would be a better call..

This years harvest did turn out quite better than originally expected. The biggest issue is the size of the harvest. Generally speaking, this years harvest was about 1/2 what is normal. So why the end turned out quite promising the question to answer is, If in time the quality continues to show good promise would the quantity be enough to support a full blown declaration. And if 2011 is declared, which all signs point to, would they declare back to back? At this point I would say no. guessing here, in 2012 we will probably see SQVP's from the big producers and the usual declarations from the smaller ones. Regardless there won't be a large quantity produced.

As for 2011, I haven't seen that much overall excitement in the Douro since the 2007 harvest. It seemed everyone I spoke to or heard was super excited about 2011. I do have a strong feeling 2011 may be the next declared year. The question is, will TFP also declare? I say yes if all continues on path. Simply because it's now a new decade so no worries about declaring too much in one decade. And regardless, TFP has shown the old adage of only three times a decade can be tossed out the window if the quality is good enough to support a classic declaration.

In regards to economics, both 2007 (released in 2009), and 2009 (released last year) have sold very well despite the worlds economy. So there is no reason against having a classic declaration in 2013...at least I hope so

Simply because it's now a new decade so no worries about declaring too much in one decade.

I think that is more an accident of history, rather than a deliberate strategy. According to my lists, in the last ten decades, Taylor have declared once on two occasions, twice on another, thrice on five occasions and four times twice - so the three times a decade 'rule' has been broken as often as it has been observed.

What seems more important is the interval between declarations. Taylor have had two year intervals on five occasions in the last century, but none of them have been consecutive, and all have been either preceded or succeeded by a gap of five or more years.

It would therefore be quite a deviation from their historical trend for them to declare 2011.

However, if the wines make the grade, then they should declare..

Andy Velebil wrote:The biggest issue is the size of the harvest. Generally speaking, this years harvest was about 1/2 what is normal. So why the end turned out quite promising the question to answer is, If in time the quality continues to show good promise would the quantity be enough to support a full blown declaration.

If the quality is there, is quantity likely to be an issue in terms of VP? Production of VP is so small relative to overall harvest size.

Particularly if you consider that the bottling run of a "classic" declaration is actually much reduced these days (it would be interesting to get a sense of how much this is due to an active choice, and how much down to the fact that former grape suppliers like Quevedo have gone their own way, reducing the Taylor catchment)

uncle tom wrote:
I think that is more an accident of history, rather than a deliberate strategy. According to my lists, in the last ten decades, Taylor have declared once on one occasion, twice on another, thrice on five occasions and four times twice - so the three times a decade 'rule' has been broken as often as it has been observed.

What's the relative prestige of a Vargellas Vinha Vehla "super cuvee" declaration (04) vs a "classic" declaration (03)? Would be easy to go down those sort of lines in 11 - 12.

What's the relative prestige of a Vargellas Vinha Vehla "super cuvee" declaration (04) vs a "classic" declaration (03)? Would be easy to go down those sort of lines in 11 - 12.

Always an option - Nacional releases have often been made in years where there was no Noval declaration.

I was in the Douro this year in July. At this time I spoke to a lot of wine growers, and at this time I hav´nt had the feeling that the mood for this year was good.

But after the harvest it seems, that everthing changes. I spoke recently to Dirk Niepoort, David Guimaraens and Joao Nicolau de Almeida, and I would say these guys are maybe the most competent persons when it comes to the quality of a Port , expescially a young port. And all three agree, that they are very statisfied with the quality of 2012.

But it is clear, that it is to early to give a statement about declaring. And noone of the wine growers will do this.

May be 2011/12 is comparable to 1991/92, a very funny thing, that exact 20 years later we have a similar situation. I´m to young to remember the feeling at this time, but what I have read, in the of 1991 everyone was satisfied, than it cames a very unusual year in 1992 and the split declaration in 1993 and 1994. And still today there is no consistent meaning about what year was better, even if the most people today vote for 1992.

But it is clear, that it is to early to give a statement about declaring. And noone of the wine growers will do this.

No, and there's not likely to be any specific statements until the spring; but we are already getting hints and indications.

Dirk and the Syms made it pretty clear that they were more than content with the 2011 harvest, and I've not heard any of the smaller producers disagree. Taylor Fladgate, on the other hand, were more reticent.

2012 has, it would seem, produced a much better vintage than expected, but with painfully small yields. For some of the smaller producers, it's been a bit of a disaster.

The big producers, with their diverse stocks to draw on, will probably find it easier to blend a top VP from their 2012 stocks than will the smaller players, whereas the field will be a little more level for 2011. Whilst they would never publicly admit it, seeing their top wines out-scored by a garagiste must irk the big names.

Then there's the rapid fire issue, previously discussed, that makes 2011 a bit soon for the TFP.

Having not fared too well against Noval and the Symington brands in 2007, TFP will also want to be pretty confident of being at the top of the table when they next go head to head.

And there is also the 'kiss and make-up' tradition - a show of unanimity following split or partial declarations, which might discourage the Symingtons from declaring 2011 if they knew that the TFP were not going to join the party.

- So as I see it, the ball is currently in Adrian's court..

uncle tom wrote:And there is also the 'kiss and make-up' tradition ! So as I see it, the ball is currently in Adrian's court..

I wouldn't want to be Paul Symington if Adrian makes the wrong decision!

Finally I want to came back to this theme:

in November I interviewd David Guimaraens about the harvest 2012, here is the video with his statement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3JtZi8q ... re=mh_lolz

I think it is very interesting, to see, that in style the 2012 maybe could similar to 1992 and 2007, but declare or not, thing for definitve answer we have to wait until spring 2013...

christopherpfaff wrote:but declare or not, thing for definitve answer we have to wait until spring 2013...

So i take it you do not think anyone will have the confidence to release both 2011 and 2012...

It would be a big surprise for me, if the two big producers for Vintage Port will declare both as classic years.

but I think that much of the smaller producers (when we speak about the quantity of their average vintage production) maybe declare both.

Taylor have at last produced a vintage report for 2012:

http://www.taylor.pt/en/news/port-harvest-2012-2/

However, along with David's interview, there is no clear message regarding their declaration intentions, which suggests that they really haven't decided yet.

Elsewhere, I have been reliably informed that Niepoort and the Symington brands are readying for a 2011 declaration, with or without the TFP brands.

Very little information emanates from Noval these days, and I have no idea what their plans are...

..anyone know?

I believe 2011 will be a general declaration. Far too many growers were exceedingly excited about the season and its prospects for it to not be generally declared. I think that comparisons to 1991/1992 are inaccurate because, as I have been led to believe, 1991 was merely "declarable" and not "classic" which is why TFP was more than happy to hold off for the marginally better (for them) 1992. I see no similar pattern in 2011/2012. The excitement about 2011 leads me to believe it is a classic year, while the promise of 2012 is much more limited and sounds very much like superb SQVP year to me.

I also don't see TFP's 2009 declarations as a problem. Welcome to the modern world of Port declarations. With so many small producers now able and willing to declare as often as they want, I think there will be less and less adherance to the 3/decade rule of thumb as we move forward. 07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

We may ultimately decide that the SQVPs (or VPs, or whatever) that are released in 2012 are equal or better than the VPs released in 2011, but I suspect that it will be due to the much more limited releases.

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

Shippers have claimed that each declaration is judged, standalone, on the quality of the juice. The statistical evidence against this is strong (given here). But that claim might become true, at least partly for the reasons Glenn gives.

RAYC wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

g-man wrote:

RAYC wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:07/09/11 declarations will become more and more commonplace as time goes on.

But not, a la Noval in 03/04 (and nearly 05) or 07/08, in consecutive years? (although, like Vesuvio, i suppose it is "only" an SQVP so can get away with it!).

With TFP, it seems to me that, for two of their three top brands, it is simply a matter of emphasis. Is there much difference between a Fonseca classic and a Fonseca Guimaraens (apart from what they call it depending on the potential they think it has)? Likewise with Croft and Croft Roeda? Or even Delaforce and Corte?

I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

My point being, up until samples are submitted to IVDP, is there anything to stop a batch of VP being labelled either as "Fonseca" or "Fonseca Guimaraens", or likewise as "Croft" or "Croft Quinta da Roeda" / "Delaforce" or "Delaforce Quinta da Corte"?

Whereas presumably the Symingtons have to decide at an earlier point whether the Q. dos Malvedos or Bomfim juice will either (i) be blended with that of other Quintas for the classic Graham/Dow/Warre VP or (ii) held back for SQVP?

jdaw1 wrote:

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

Depends on whether you ask DRT or AHB!

RAYC wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:

g-man wrote:I have yet to try a Guimaraeans that tops the Fonseca 70

What proportion of full-declaration Fonsecas top the Guimaraeans ’76?

Depends on whether you ask DRT or AHB!

No full-declaration Fonseca that I have tasted has quite the braga-esque quality of the Guimaraens 1976. My preference is for Port that changes colour naturally as it evolves. Others are welcome to disagree

Perhaps a tasting of F76, SW77 & D80 v D85, F85 & T85 would demonstrate the point?

Paul Symington wrote:In the old days my father and uncles would have been making very sweet Ports with very little colour because they would have had to run off the lagares when the fermentation temperatures got too high.

Was re-reading this thread in search of information about the 2011 declaration, and came upon this nugget of information.

Thanks Paul for sharing and to the entire Symington family for being incredibly generous with their time, knowledge, and wines! It is an incredible asset of TPF to have such warm relationships with our port heroes.

I have been to Porto several times, but have not yet made it to the vineyards

I look forward to checking out these cooling machines when I finally stop by!

BFT 2014 Catalogue wrote:11. Dow’s Senhora da Ribeira 2012

12. Quinta do Vesuvio 2012

The only 2012 declarations revealed by this release of the BFT’s catalogue.

jdaw1 wrote:

BFT 2014 Catalogue wrote:11. Dow’s Senhora da Ribeira 2012

12. Quinta do Vesuvio 2012

The only 2012 declarations revealed by this release of the BFT’s catalogue.

Please start a 2012 declaration thread.

DRT wrote:Please start a 2012 declaration thread.

Done.