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They buggered the 750mL bottling I think. My bottles have ranged from advanced to oxidised. You may be more fortunate. Anecdotally the halves are sound. Don't know if magnums were bottled.g-man wrote:So now I have to ask,
what's the deal with the leaking corks
6x closed case comes in and 2 of the bottles are leaking terribly.
From memory, the problem was that the bottles were packed and laid down immediately after the corks went in rather than the common practice of letting them stand for a while to allow the corks to re-expand and form a good seal. I have read elsewhere that Niepoort have acknowledged this problem and are prepared to swap cases of the 97 which show signs of leakage for cases of the current vintage.g-man wrote:So now I have to ask,
what's the deal with the leaking corks
6x closed case comes in and 2 of the bottles are leaking terribly.
That was mentioned in the previous thread i linked - does that account for the VA problem though? (which seems to affect a lot of Niepoort vps between 1985 and 1997).DRT wrote:From memory, the problem was that the bottles were packed and laid down immediately after the corks went in rather than the common practice of letting them stand for a while to allow the corks to re-expand and form a good seal. I have read elsewhere that Niepoort have acknowledged this problem and are prepared to swap cases of the 97 which show signs of leakage for cases of the current vintage.g-man wrote:So now I have to ask,
what's the deal with the leaking corks
6x closed case comes in and 2 of the bottles are leaking terribly.
Sorry if this comes across as being blunt, but: why did you buy these? You can't say you haven't been warned! In numerous threads both here and on FTLOP there has been mention of problems with this port, either leaking or spoiled by VA. I've experienced it myself a couple of times with bottles others opened for me and decided never to buy this port myself, no matter how high the WS rating may be.g-man wrote:So now I have to ask,
what's the deal with the leaking corks
6x closed case comes in and 2 of the bottles are leaking terribly.
No, it doesn't explain the VA problem at all. I wasn't aware of the limitations on the replacement offer.RAYC wrote:That was mentioned in the previous thread i linked - does that account for the VA problem though? (which seems to affect a lot of Niepoort vps between 1985 and 1997).
For some reason, i had thought that the replacement offer applied only to en primeur / direct sales from distributors.
+1RonnieRoots wrote:Sorry if this comes across as being blunt, but: why did you buy these? You can't say you haven't been warned!
RonnieRoots wrote:Sorry if this comes across as being blunt, but: why did you buy these? You can't say you haven't been warned! In numerous threads both here and on FTLOP there has been mention of problems with this port, either leaking or spoiled by VA. I've experienced it myself a couple of times with bottles others opened for me and decided never to buy this port myself, no matter how high the WS rating may be.g-man wrote:So now I have to ask,
what's the deal with the leaking corks
6x closed case comes in and 2 of the bottles are leaking terribly.
Did you purchase the case from a retailer? If so, have you tried sending it back?g-man wrote:i must admit that I recalled the 94 vintage and got it mixed up wtihte 97
auction house but the description said perfect bottles so i do have recourse as these are terribly leakyDRT wrote:Did you purchase the case from a retailer? If so, have you tried sending it back?g-man wrote:i must admit that I recalled the 94 vintage and got it mixed up wtihte 97
But do they smell of nail varnish?AHB wrote:For what it's worth, the Fortnum & Mason BoB 1997 vintage port was the regular Niepoort vintage blend, but was labelled and corked on a different bottling run. I have a handful of these and none of the bottles show signs of leaking.
I don't find that strange at all. One of the problems is caused by a poor seal and the other by a biological process. Why would they be connected unless that biological process was causing increased pressure inside the bottle, which I don't think it does?uncle tom wrote:Niepoort thought they had fully sanitised their systems (as did other producers) but it came back to bite them again in 1994, and badly in 1997.
This being the aforementioned email.dear all,
thank you for the kind words about me as a person.
but the issue is not me but niepoort and in this case the vintage 1997.
i have answered dave and assume that he will give you my answer.
on thing for sure.
OFF COURSE I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY PROBLEM WHEN THIS WINE WAS BOTTLED
i have heard (not only now but already a few years ago) about some problems with bottles having va. i have experienced it twice myself.
but by coincidence i was served a bottle of vintage 1997 niepoort just 3 days ago and found that the wine was good (it didn t show great ...it is closed and ininteresting and not really expressiv....but so did the fonseca which i had two days ago. it did not show any signs of being a outrageously fantastic wine at this stage. but funny stages of the vintage ports are well know to all of you).
i have been trying to find out about this problem. this problem started with us with the vintage 1985. but than again it depends on the bottle...i ve had fantastic bottles of our 1985.... and it is a problem that seems to be related to a malolactic bacteria which seems to survive at hight alcool when the ph of the wine is high and the sulphur low.but then again: why some bottles and others not?????
since we don t understand the problem we haven t done anything about it. but as with any leaking bottles we will be happy to replace any bottles as you have in your cellars.
i don t usually chat on boards so please don t expect me to be online all the time (in case you ask a question and don t get any answer from me).
it is important to talk about the problem and if someone knows more than me please let me know
my email: dirk@niepoort-sa.pt
thanks for all your comments
dirk
__________________
Dirk van der Niepoort
Dear dave,
I m sorry to hear that you had a problem with our vintage 1997. it is
not
the first time I hear of that problem and infact had one bottle tasted
abroad a few month ago that was volatile. But had a bottle 3 days ago
that
was fine (closed and uninteresting at this stage but with no volatiliy
and
no problems whatsoever).
This seems to be a recent problem that we don’t know anything about.
We will
and have opened bottles recently to find out more about it.
In any case it is off course true that we blend the wine (so that it is
uniform in the bottle) before bottling. Having said that it is strange
that
some bottles are good and other not. So I have no idea for sure what is
going on.
In any case , we are most happy to exchange if you have bottles with
leacher
or any other problem bottles.
Thank you for your comments and warning us about the problem
Regards
dirk
Which I think it must be doing. The corks I pulled recently were not super tight, but tighter than one normally finds in a sound bottle twice that age.unless that biological process was causing increased pressure inside the bottle
It could be storage conditions perhaps? Bret blooms above 20 degrees Centigrade. Maybe this is a similar situation? It could also be at the limit of the microbes ability to propagate in terms of sugar and pH? At the limit you get inconsistent growth. It may depend on how many microbes you start with as well?uncle tom wrote:Which I think it must be doing. The corks I pulled recently were not super tight, but tighter than one normally finds in a sound bottle twice that age.unless that biological process was causing increased pressure inside the bottle
You may also recall the occasion when I first re-corked some Ni97's and you witnessed one bottle in my kitchen erupting its contents like a bottle of champagne..
..but as Dirk notes - why some bottles, and not others? - and why some bottlings, but not all?
Makes me suspect that the source of the microbe lies in the cork..
I know of at least 1 other bottle where the same thing happened. I didn't see it happening myself but was told that it seemed like the juice had started to re-ferment. Very strange.uncle tom wrote: You may also recall the occasion when I first re-corked some Ni97's and you witnessed one bottle in my kitchen erupting its contents like a bottle of champagne..
Now refermentation is an interesting one. It would have to be a hardy yeast indeed that can withstand the percentage alcohol.RonnieRoots wrote:I know of at least 1 other bottle where the same thing happened. I didn't see it happening myself but was told that it seemed like the juice had started to re-ferment. Very strange.uncle tom wrote: You may also recall the occasion when I first re-corked some Ni97's and you witnessed one bottle in my kitchen erupting its contents like a bottle of champagne..
You have caused me embarrassment. I laughed aloud. On a train. In Britain. That is simply not done it seems as it caused some reproving looks! Perhaps because I am in the quiet carg-man wrote:in a winery, commercial yeast will possibly escape and start floating around in the air.
It is certainly plausible that some champagne yeasts may have not been fully killed off and resided int he flawed bottles (though rare)
Fizzy port, at least it saves you from putting the tonic in. Add lime and you're set!
Yes - as it's a lone bottle, decant it. And as it's still quite young, give it a long decant (maybe two days) and then let us know how badly the problem affects its drinking qualities.Any thoughts?
If he was a car manufacturer that is exactly what he would have to do. Niepoort 1997 is a product that has a known fault that renders it useless. All of them should be recalled.uncle tom wrote:If he could, I think he'd gladly replace every bottle in existence, but I don't think it's fair to take him up on this with odd bottles or stock bought at auction
True - but can you recall a wine-maker ever taking such a stance? I can think of a few that have lied through their teeth, rather than admit there was a problem..If he was a car manufacturer that is exactly what he would have to do.
Looking into that now...Andy Velebil wrote:Uh this looks like a heat damaged bottle as the cork is significantly pushed up. So while this vintage does have some issues this bottle seems to have had poor storage at some point.
Can you return it?
Heat damage in the UK is extremely unlikely. "Extremely unlikely" meaning almost never. The only bottles I have seen in the UK with symptoms of heat damage have been (a) shipped and returned from the new world, or; (b) stored in a shop window or kitchen cupboard. We do not experience the summer shipping problems that you do in the USA or southern Europe.Andy Velebil wrote:Uh this looks like a heat damaged bottle as the cork is significantly pushed up. So while this vintage does have some issues this bottle seems to have had poor storage at some point.
Can you return it?
You have supported my stance very welluncle tom wrote:True - but can you recall a wine-maker ever taking such a stance? I can think of a few that have lied through their teeth, rather than admit there was a problem..If he was a car manufacturer that is exactly what he would have to do.
except antarcticaAndy Velebil wrote:Ray,
What you say makes no sense. The leak issue from the bottling line has nothing to do with a pushed cork and potential leakage caused by heat damage.
I'm sorry but the whole "we live in the uk so heat damage can't happen" is utter non-sense. Heat damage can and does occur anywhere.
Precisely, unless stored by the heater or stove.g-man wrote:except antarcticaAndy Velebil wrote:Ray,
What you say makes no sense. The leak issue from the bottling line has nothing to do with a pushed cork and potential leakage caused by heat damage.
I'm sorry but the whole "we live in the uk so heat damage can't happen" is utter non-sense. Heat damage can and does occur anywhere.
But we both have one thing in common...drinking lots o Portdjewesbury wrote:Typical port forum debate; the Brits get entrenched, the Yanks get whimsical. You guys..
There seem to be a number of references to Ni97s with pushed corks if you do a bit of googling - this still seems to me to suggest a wider issue with this wine (whether as a result of bottling line issues or refermentation of the type seen by Tom and Ronnie) rather than a storage-specific issueAndy Velebil wrote:Ray,
What you say makes no sense. The leak issue from the bottling line has nothing to do with a pushed cork and potential leakage caused by heat damage.
I'm sorry but the whole "we live in the uk so heat damage can't happen" is utter non-sense. Heat damage can and does occur anywhere.
Firstly, RAYC's name is Rob, not RayAndy Velebil wrote:Ray,
What you say makes no sense. The leak issue from the bottling line has nothing to do with a pushed cork and potential leakage caused by heat damage.
I'm sorry but the whole "we live in the uk so heat damage can't happen" is utter non-sense. Heat damage can and does occur anywhere.
Both are possible, but given the amount of seepage on this bottle, I'd put my money on secondary fermentation.It can be caused by secondary fermentation or it might be that the cork was never fully inserted in the first place.
As the pyrotechnician amongst us you are the expert on this, but I would have thought that the expansion of the glass (are we talking microns here?) would be even in each direction - meaning that the space inside the bottle would actually contract...uncle tom wrote:the glass expands, making the bottle slightly more capacious
Tom,uncle tom wrote:Both are possible, but given the amount of seepage on this bottle, I'd put my money on secondary fermentation.It can be caused by secondary fermentation or it might be that the cork was never fully inserted in the first place.
However, when you consider the force normally needed to remove a young cork, and the ability of the small amount of gas inside to compress, most bottles are unlikely to show any sign of distress, even after travelling in the hottest of vehicles..
Was using my phone on Tapatalk and it must have auto-corrected and removed the "c" at the end and changed the caps to a name.DRT wrote:Firstly, RAYC's name is Rob, not Ray
No one has said that it can't happen, just that it is very rare here in the UK because we have rubbish weather.
A protruding cork is not necessarily caused by heat. It can be caused by secondary fermentation or it might be that the cork was never fully inserted in the first place.
Given the history of this wine I think it is far more likely that the fault lies with the producer rather then the people who have handled and stored it since bottling.