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The Helix Cork
Posted: 09:37 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
Why do so many Portuguese companies so fail to get the web?
Searching Amorim for ‘Helix’ draws a blank, as does
searching amorimcork.com. Doh! (It isn’t me that should berate the company it should be the trade-promotion part of the Portuguese government.)
Also reported by the BBC in an article entitled
Why the snobbery over corks?.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 09:45 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by RAYC
Otherwise known as a "t-stopper"...?!
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 09:52 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by JWEW
Not quite a T-stopper. The cork has to be twisted out, not pulled, as the inside of the bottle neck has ridges to match the grooves on the cork.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 09:58 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
To be fair, the bottle company is equally dim-witted:
www.o-i.com/News-Archives is a blank.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 11:22 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
The Times has a different picture:
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 11:23 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by RAYC
extensive testing of wine stored in Helix bottles had shown no alteration to the taste, aroma or colour after 26 months
Impressive. Though i'm not sure that that this can be literally true (nor am i convinced that it would be desireable!)
JWEW wrote:Not quite a T-stopper. The cork has to be twisted out, not pulled, as the inside of the bottle neck has ridges to match the grooves on the cork.
I tend to have to twist T-stoppers out anyway - i don't think i'd usually pull straight (though the appication of body weight to push back down means i would not ordinarily twist in).
The Helix Cork
Posted: 11:24 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by djewesbury
As Rob points out, it's just a T-stopper. What's the essential difference?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 12:19 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by Andy Velebil
djewesbury wrote:As Rob points out, it's just a T-stopper. What's the essential difference?
And I can see major issues once the glass bottle mold starts wearing a little and the seal isn't so perfect anymore. Why not just use a t-stopper is what I though too.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 13:20 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
Andy Velebil wrote:Why not just use a t-stopper is what I though too.
Perhaps the twist seems fancier?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 14:20 Mon 17 Jun 2013
by g-man
and at least the better quality t stoppers aren't compressed cork like this contraption
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 21:45 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
At best this is an attempt by the (not inconsiderably sized) Portuguese cork industry to come up with an alternative to the screw cap.
Has anyone ever had a problem removing a T-stopper from a relatively new bottle? This seems to add nothing new and certainly isn't a solution for wines intended to be laid down.
On g-man's point - I don't see what the problem is with composite corks in pop-n-pour wines. Lots of T-stoppers are composite and it doesn't cause an issue.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 21:47 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
TheDrinksBusiness.com wrote:The Helix cork and bottle has a thread finish, which allows drinkers to twist the stopper open and closed again, creating on airtight barrier.
Cork=airtight?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:38 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by g-man
DRT wrote:TheDrinksBusiness.com wrote:The Helix cork and bottle has a thread finish, which allows drinkers to twist the stopper open and closed again, creating on airtight barrier.
Cork=airtight?
corks are suppose to be airtight thoguh
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:40 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
That is Derek’s point. Is the Helix be properly airtight? And will it stay properly airtight?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:41 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
g-man wrote:DRT wrote:TheDrinksBusiness.com wrote:The Helix cork and bottle has a thread finish, which allows drinkers to twist the stopper open and closed again, creating on airtight barrier.
Cork=airtight?
corks are suppose to be airtight thoguh
Which doesn't explain why Vintage Port develops in bottle by being able to "breathe"?
Cork is watertight, not airtight.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:42 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
jdaw1 wrote:That is Derek’s point.
No, it isn't.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:44 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
At last, O-I, in a press notice entitled [url=http://www.o-i.com/Newsroom/Amorim-and-O-I-Launch-Wine-Packaging-Innovation/]Amorim and O-I Launch Wine Packaging Innovation[/url], wrote:
Jun 17, 2013
Amorim and O-I Launch Wine Packaging Innovation
HELIX, the cork & glass solution with an ‘unexpected twist’
June 17, 2013 ”“ BORDEAUX, France
The two global leaders in wine packaging, Amorim and O-I, today announced at Vinexpo the European launch of HELIX, an innovative cork-glass wine packaging solution for the popular premium, fast turnaround still wine segment.
The result of a four-year partnership between Amorim and O-I, the development of HELIX drew on both companies’ innovation capabilities and expertise in serving global wine markets, gained from a heritage that stretches back over a century.
‟The future of innovation is through collaboration,” said O-I European President Erik Bouts. ‟Helix is a proven example of what can be achieved for consumers and the wine trade when the world’s leading companies in glass packaging and cork work together.”
The new ‘twist to open’ concept combines an ergonomically-designed stopper made from cork and a glass bottle with an internal thread finish in the neck, creating a high performing and sophisticated wine packaging solution. HELIX combines all the benefits of cork and glass ”“ quality, sustainability and premium image with user-friendly, re-sealable convenience. It can be quickly and easily implemented by wineries with only a minor adjustment to the existing filling lines.
‟HELIX meets consumers’ growing desire for sustainability and quality, while delivering the brand building and premium image packaging wineries rely upon”, added Antonio Amorim, Chairman and CEO of Amorim. ‟We are delighted to offer the market not only a 100% renewable, modern product, but also a solution that enhances the wine drinking experience through opening and resealing convenience.”
In extensive testing conducted by Amorim and O-I, wine packaged in HELIX glass bottles with cork stoppers showed no alteration in terms of taste, aroma or colour. As part of the development process, market research in France, UK, USA and China revealed great consumer acceptance of HELIX for fast turnaround and popular premium wines. In addition, consumers also appreciated retaining the festive ‘pop’ associated with opening a bottle of wine.
For more information on HELIX, visit
www.helixconcept.com
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:45 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
DRT wrote:Cork is watertight, not airtight.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:48 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
The video on
helixconcept.com says ‟airtight”.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 22:49 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
The new ‘twist to open’ concept
New?
Copyright lorenzothewineguy.files.wordpress.com
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:17 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by g-man
DRT wrote:g-man wrote:DRT wrote:TheDrinksBusiness.com wrote:The Helix cork and bottle has a thread finish, which allows drinkers to twist the stopper open and closed again, creating on airtight barrier.
Cork=airtight?
corks are suppose to be airtight thoguh
Which doesn't explain why Vintage Port develops in bottle by being able to "breathe"?
Cork is watertight, not airtight.
pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
"breathing" is a marketing ploy from the cork industry to fight against screw caps.
As such, I don't believe the chemical analysis of a VP developing in bottle is necessarily the oxygenation of the wine in bottle.
Contrary, it's the lack of air that allows the tannins to meld away yet have the wine still retain its color.
I have seen what oxygen does to wine and even in trace quantities you get those tawny notes.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:28 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by Glenn E.
g-man wrote:DRT wrote:g-man wrote:DRT wrote:TheDrinksBusiness.com wrote:The Helix cork and bottle has a thread finish, which allows drinkers to twist the stopper open and closed again, creating on airtight barrier.
Cork=airtight?
corks are suppose to be airtight thoguh
Which doesn't explain why Vintage Port develops in bottle by being able to "breathe"?
Cork is watertight, not airtight.
pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
Whether or not it is supposed to be, it is not. Permeability ratings of the best screwcaps show them to be as much as 2600 times less permeable than natural cork.
Hooked On Wine wrote:Diam’s manufacturer estimates that Diam P1 is 400 times less permeable than a very good natural cork. They estimate a screwcap is 2600 times less permeable than a very good natural cork.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:48 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
g-man wrote:pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
Did the inventor of natural cork tell you that?
It just isn't.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:53 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by g-man
DRT wrote:g-man wrote:pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
Did the inventor of natural cork tell you that?
It just isn't.
I don't recall arguing whether or not natural cork could be airtight
only that a proper cork enclosure should be airtight.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:58 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
g-man wrote:DRT wrote:g-man wrote:pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
Did the inventor of natural cork tell you that?
It just isn't.
I don't recall arguing whether or not natural cork could be airtight
only that a proper cork enclosure should be airtight.
But it isn't. A "proper cork enclosure" is made from natural cork. It isn't airtight. Is there another type of cork that we don't know about?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 23:59 Tue 18 Jun 2013
by DRT
Glenn E. wrote:Hooked On Wine wrote:Diam’s manufacturer estimates that Diam P1 is 400 times less permeable than a very good natural cork. They estimate a screwcap is 2600 times less permeable than a very good natural cork.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 00:07 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by g-man
DRT wrote:g-man wrote:DRT wrote:g-man wrote:pretty sure that a proper cork is suppose to be airtight
Did the inventor of natural cork tell you that?
It just isn't.
I don't recall arguing whether or not natural cork could be airtight
only that a proper cork enclosure should be airtight.
But it isn't. A "proper cork enclosure" is made from natural cork. It isn't airtight. Is there another type of cork that we don't know about?
No, natural just means there's alot more variability.
I'm searching for the research paper that was published last year or so, but the best corks have a lower permeability then screw caps.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 03:01 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by mannye
I've always thought that corks let some (relative term) air through.
Here's an article about a UC Davis study on corks vs screwcaps and the flavor of wine.
http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news ... o?id=10339
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 04:23 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by g-man
thanks for the article, would be interesting to see the results.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 06:13 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by RonnieRoots
Seems to me that this is Amorim's attempt to compete with screwcap, but in my view that battle is already lost. There is general acceptance of screwcap, even for premium wines, so I think it will be very difficult for the cork industry to win back that lost ground. If they had introduced this product 5 years ago, they would have had a better chance. I do see one potentially interesting market for this type of closure though: Prosecco.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 07:03 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by RAYC
RonnieRoots wrote:Seems to me that this is Amorim's attempt to compete with screwcap, but in my view that battle is already lost. There is general acceptance of screwcap, even for premium wines, so I think it will be very difficult for the cork industry to win back that lost ground. If they had introduced this product 5 years ago, they would have had a better chance. I do see one potentially interesting market for this type of closure though: Prosecco.
I'm not sure i agree that this is an attempt to take on the screwcap. After all, the principle arguments for screwcap as i understand them (much reduced chances of TCA, tighter seal for freshness) are no better addressed by this than by traditional corks. To me this seems like a well dressed t-stopper aiming for a bit of natural cork market share on the basis of convenience. The requirement for bespoke bottles seems to me to be a bit of a drawback - at least for any winery that goes for a distinctive bottle "look" - but plenty use generic bottles.
Even if there is general acceptance of screw-cap, all the articles i've browsed over the years seem to indicate an ongoing preference for cork - in particular for high end (i.e. £10+) wines in US, UK and China. But i'll admit i haven't paid a huge amount of attention. From a personal perspective, i'd take some convincing before i purchased VP from screw cap....
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 14:52 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by Andy Velebil
From the last data I've seen, and it may have changed since, there was no significant difference in flawed bottles of either. Both have draw backs, corks with TCA, and screw caps with oxidation from a not so perfect seal (and highly dependent on what type of membrane is used as a seal in the screw cap. AS IIRC one or two older membranes had a very high rate of o2 transfer and/or impart some off flavors).
So what started as a way to eliminate TCA issues, really ended up with its own set of equally damaging issues as well.
Personally, I don't mind screw caps on non-aging type wines. A good Vinho Verde is perfect under screw cap. I can have a glass or two, cap it back, toss it in the fridge and have more the next day without the slight effervescence going away.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 15:46 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by jdaw1
RonnieRoots wrote:Seems to me that this is Amorim's attempt to compete with screwcap, but in my view that battle is already lost. There is general acceptance of screwcap, even for premium wines, so I think it will be very difficult for the cork industry to win back that lost ground.
RAYC wrote:I'm not sure i agree that this is an attempt to take on the screwcap. After all, the principle arguments for screwcap as i understand them (much reduced chances of TCA, tighter seal for freshness) are no better addressed by this than by traditional corks. To me this seems like a well dressed t-stopper aiming for a bit of natural cork market share on the basis of convenience.
Screw cap + cork sound, in the popular premium market: that’s a screw cap fight.
As for the bottles, it depends on their patents. If they have patented thoroughly, such that O-I has and exercises a monopoly on this type of bottle, wineries won’t want their line adjusted, and it will flop. If O-I have the wit to undertake to license it to all, for a fixed ¼¢ per bottle, then wineries might take the punt.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 16:13 Wed 19 Jun 2013
by RAYC
jdaw1 wrote:RonnieRoots wrote:Seems to me that this is Amorim's attempt to compete with screwcap, but in my view that battle is already lost. There is general acceptance of screwcap, even for premium wines, so I think it will be very difficult for the cork industry to win back that lost ground.
RAYC wrote:I'm not sure i agree that this is an attempt to take on the screwcap. After all, the principle arguments for screwcap as i understand them (much reduced chances of TCA, tighter seal for freshness) are no better addressed by this than by traditional corks. To me this seems like a well dressed t-stopper aiming for a bit of natural cork market share on the basis of convenience.
Screw cap + cork sound, in the popular premium market: that’s a screw cap fight.
That's a nice soundbite, but i still question the reasoning behind it.
On the whole, and at least as far as i am aware, the reason for wine-makers turning away from cork in not because of the convenience of a screw cap - it is because of the problems and variability experienced with corks. Why would these people look at cork again with fresh eyes just because it is a "screw cork"? I think it far more likely that someone who currently bottles under cork could switch to this type of product on the basis of "convenience".
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 16:53 Fri 21 Jun 2013
by DRT
RAYC wrote:Why would these people look at cork again with fresh eyes just because it is a "screw cork"? I think it far more likely that someone who currently bottles under cork could switch to this type of product on the basis of "convenience".
Rob, I think that's the point many here are trying to make. I don't think this is about winning back the parts of the market that have already gone over to screw caps, it is more likely to be an attempt to grab a slice of the part of the market that is currently using driven corks that might jump ship in the future. The screw cap boys have secured their current market but will be attacking the cork market for more - this is an attempt to stem the flow. Isn't that a screw cap fight?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 17:12 Fri 21 Jun 2013
by RAYC
DRT wrote:RAYC wrote:Why would these people look at cork again with fresh eyes just because it is a "screw cork"? I think it far more likely that someone who currently bottles under cork could switch to this type of product on the basis of "convenience".
Rob, I think that's the point many here are trying to make. I don't think this is about winning back the parts of the market that have already gone over to screw caps, it is more likely to be an attempt to grab a slice of the part of the market that is currently using driven corks that might jump ship in the future. The screw cap boys have secured their current market but will be attacking the cork market for more - this is an attempt to stem the flow. Isn't that a screw cap fight?
Again, if my understanding is correct that - on the whole - customers in key markets genuinely still prefer cork (even if there is high "acceptance" of screw cap), i fail to see how this product "stems the flow" when the main reason that producers switch to screw caps is related to issues with cork quality/consistency rather than the convenience of the "screw" motion. The Helix Cork seems to me like an effort by Amorim (world's largest cork producer?) to get an even bigger share of the cork market. Nothing i've seen says to me that this is a "screw cap fight' (unless i'm wrong on the reasons that producers switch to screw cap and it is about convenience rather than guaranteeing freshness / avoiding TCA).
Put it another way - what about the Helix Cork would tempt back those who have changed to screw cap, or persuade those who are considering the change to stay?
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 17:26 Fri 21 Jun 2013
by DRT
RAYC wrote:Put it another way - what about the Helix Cork would tempt back those who have changed to screw cap, or persuade those who are considering the change to stay?
Nothing, because it's a really crap idea.
I'm not sure that TCA is what drives producers towards screw caps any more. It might have been the reason at the beginning but it is now more likely to be because of convenience and market acceptance/expectation. My mum buys £4-5 wine and hates corks because they are less convenient. I don't think she would ever spot a corked wine. She is by no means alone.
Re: The Helix Cork
Posted: 04:06 Sat 22 Jun 2013
by Glenn E.
DRT wrote:She is by no means alone.
Unquestionably not.
