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I come as a humble acolyte (albeit one whose ranking has passed into the minor vintages for the first time!) with this question.

You are buying a case or two, or three, of Port for General Use. Something with decent cellar age, ready to drink but also with some future ahead of it. Nothing too stellar. What would it be, and why?

i'd recommend the Rozes 94 LBV.

Rozes makes some very affordable but fantastic LBVS

the 94 is one of the best for them.

Drinks well young but can certainly see age.

I agree with g-man that you should consider bottle-aged traditional LBV. We've seen from our recent experience with the Warre LBVs from the '80s that these can mature beautifully and last a decent amount of time in the cellar. As well as the Warre, you also should consider Smith Woodhouse, Noval and Quevedo. These have the double advantage of being easy to get hold of and cheaper than VP.

Or you could build a time machine, go back five years and buy hundreds of bottles of Morgan 1991 from Tom at £50 for six bottles. The only part of that that I didn't manage to do was building the time machine and going back five years.

DRT wrote:Or you could build a time machine, go back five years and buy hundreds of bottles of Morgan 1991 from Tom at £50 for six bottles. The only part of that that I didn't manage to do was building the time machine and going back five years.

yes I'm aware that I missed out on this little wheeze. Is another one not due? And out of interest, have you drunk them all yet?

I like good LBVs and did well on the Croft 04s lately; I will take the recommendations given here, but sometimes the concentrated fruitiness oppresses somewhat. A good value VP that is one step up from 'basic cellar defender' would be a boon.

I still have three cases of M91 stuffed away for future use.

The next best thing I have found for what you are looking for is BOB VPs from the large supermarkets. Tesco have a 1994 that is usually good, although sometimes a bit stewed, that is often on offer for around £16 per bottle. Sainsbury tend to have a TTD VP around Christmas and the price varies depending on which port they use. In previous years they have had Crasto 1996, Eira Velha 2000 and a Symington 2003. The best price I have managed to grab those for was about £12.

Next on the list would be SQVPs when the supermarkets have big promotions. The combination of a discount on a specific wine and a general 25% off if you buy six or more can turn out very well. I have a stack of Taylor, Graham and Dow 1996 SQVPs that I bought from Tesco and Sainsbury a few years ago for around £10 per bottle

I know what you mean about wanting something that has settled down a bit with some time in bottle. Difficult to find though, the suggestions made thus far seem a little on the young side for my taste and perhaps yours. I cruise the small independent retailers, I have no idea what is available in Belfast along these lines but they often seem to have end of line/liquidation stock which is that bit older. Smith Woodhouse Madelana 1988 is one that I seem to be seeing quite a lot of lately at around or just under £20. This is a bit more than the deals at supermarkets but about as near as I can find at the moment. I have also bought myself a stack of lowbrow 94's an 96's and reminded myself that port drinkers need to be patient.

If you're seeing the SW Madalena 88 for £20, you're onto a very good deal. I think today is supermarket cruising day, the wine merchants here are generally useless (either they have nothing, or it's radically overpriced). I have seen some SW LBVs here but they appear not to be the unfiltered variety (I've been caught out this way before; didn't realise that those 7 bottles of Warre LBV 07 I bought a few months back were the bog-standard stuff... always read the label...)

DRT in a basque, us cruising in supermarkets, this used to be such a nice forum..........

LGTrotter wrote:DRT in a basque, us cruising in supermarkets, this used to be such a nice forum..........

*cries with laughter...*

You could try this.

A trawl of the local HyperTesco turned up some Bomfim 99. It's gone up though, it's £27.50 now. You can order this from them by the case (of 6) and they'll deliver it for free.

Of course, on finding that the Croft LBV 04 was still £3.99 for a half, I was obliged to buy what they had.

DRT wrote:You could try this.

This looks excellent. Your own TN suggests so anyway. And since I already have an order in with Fine + Rare I can order a case or two and still get round their £200 minimum order.

Happy days.

Not sure about your market

but I occasionally see the croft 85 @ 40$ here state side.

but I'd still go witht he rozes lbv 94 tbh @ 18$/btl

g-man wrote:Not sure about your market

but I occasionally see the croft 85 @ 40$ here state side.

but I'd still go witht he rozes lbv 94 tbh @ 18$/btl

I would be very interested in the Rozès but it's just not in the UK market. Justerini & Brooks have the 2003 for £90 / case of 6 in bond, but I can't find anything older than that.

Croft 85 is pricier here. Was it one of the vintages affected by VA in that year?

djewesbury wrote:Croft 85 is pricier here. Was it one of the vintages affected by VA in that year?

Avoid! I think this is the port that we ordered and sent back three bottles in a row at The Crusting Pipe as they were fowl.

Fowl?

I now have you and chickens and underwear all mixed up in my mind.

And where do you get older LBVs from? Buy them and wait I suppose.

I have pleaded guilty to my crime.

Old LBV does come to market occasionally.

Is another one not due?

Have you tried the FUR?

Popped a bottle three days ago to see how it was developing and was well pleased..

uncle tom wrote:
Have you tried the FUR?

Popped a bottle three days ago to see how it was developing and was well pleased..

Er, FUR..? Run that by me again..

Er, FUR..? Run that by me again..

Finest Unfiltered Reserve - a Quevedo wine, bottled for The Port Society. Good to drink now, but bottled with a driven cork so it can also be laid down.

- A mere £72 for 6 (£12/btl)

uncle tom wrote:Finest Unfiltered Reserve - a Quevedo wine, bottled for The Port Society.

TN's can be found here.

Sounds like a bargain. I like the distinctive flavours in Quevedo. I brought a couple of bottles of the Passadouro Reserve back with me because it was such a revelation. Tastes like a good LBV.

What about Warre's Cavadinha SQVP? You get the 98 at the Graham's Lodge for 27,55 Euro right now. With the usual 20 % discount that's 22,04 Euro per bottle. If you place an order for 24 bottles (ask friends to join in) transport costs would be 40 Euros, which adds 1,66 Euro per bottle. You would get a mature SQVP for 23,70 Euro which are 19,84 GBP.

Or you get some bottles of the 08 Niepoort LBV (which is quite good), but you would have to wait for at least three years to open the first bottle.

Wait.. Hold on.. The Graham's Lodge takes orders? Is there a web shop I've missed?

AW77 wrote:With the usual 20 % discount

Hang on. What usual 20% discount? Explain further.

There is no webshop. But you can buy ports while visiting the Graham's lodge. You get a 20 % discount there. Once you have placed the first order there in person, you can order ports and Douro wines from home (via e-mail and on an advance-payment basis). When I visited the Graham's Lodge in August, I just bought 6 bottles to be shipped home, just to have my foot in the door. I will place a bigger order in November, but have to ask some friends to join me.

AW77 wrote:There is no webshop. But you can buy ports while visiting the Graham's lodge. You get a 20 % discount there. Once you have placed the first order there in person, you can order ports and Douro wines from home (via e-mail and on an advance-payment basis). When I visited the Graham's Lodge in August, I just bought 6 bottles to be shipped home, just to have my foot in the door. I will place a bigger order in November, but have to ask some friends to join me.

This is excellent information - I wish I'd known while I was there last week. But I'll take note for the next time I'm there (hopefully before Xmas). Thanks!

I had this about six years ago and it was fabulous juice.

Other vintages are available, most of which are in more convenient sized bottles.

But the 10 available at £10 each are a tempting proposition.

For more than one reason this might be worth a try...

Both Churchill and Gould Campbell 85 have been very good for me and are reasonably affordable - within the last 24 months I have purchased 2-3 cases of each from bonded provenance for £25 per bottle all-in and an now more than half way through them... The Gould is very drinkable and reassuringly consistent, whereas the Churchill can be genuinely spectacular when on form ( though slight bottle varibility).

From Warre, Cavadinha 92 is my pick from the 90s for £20ish though will be better with more maturity. But I must say I prefer the Warre bottle matured LBVs.

A while ago you could get cases of 24 FG 91 halves for £200ish in bond - not sure if that's still available but was rather tempted by that and Griff reported they were drinking nicely. Wish I had bought a case or two of Roeda 87 when that was being sold off at under or around £20 in 2009/2010...

Pricing on Vesuvio 96 has also been very keen over the last couple of years. Cornet and Barrow sold off a load at £112 per 6-pack in bond last year. Having now had a couple, I wish I'd bought more than I did.

Derek - think you also had the Ni 96 LBV last year from a half bottle - presumably of the same ex-cellars stock you posted. I bought 6-8 a while ago and find them variable (from very good to suffering from the usual problems you associate with 90s Niepoort)

Excellent information from everyone. Wine-searcher gives me around £30 for the GC85 - might buy a few but not a bulk purchase (for these purposes) at that price. Definitely will be getting some of the Roeda87, keen prices around on that. Would be curious to try the Churchill having never had it and heard mixed reports re consistency. V96 is <£30 so an option.. but longer term perhaps.

RAYC wrote:Derek - think you also had the Ni 96 LBV last year from a half bottle - presumably of the same ex-cellars stock you posted. I bought 6-8 a while ago and find them variable (from very good to suffering from the usual problems you associate with 90s Niepoort)

Ah yes, I remember those now. The bottles I was referring to were 75cls that I bought years ago and were consistently good. Your experience would steer me away from the halves as they appear to be variable.

djewesbury wrote:I come as a humble acolyte (albeit one whose ranking has passed into the minor vintages for the first time!) with this question.

You are buying a case or two, or three, of Port for General Use. Something with decent cellar age, ready to drink but also with some future ahead of it. Nothing too stellar. What would it be, and why?

Congratulations to your promotion to the rank of Vintage. Even if I do agree that some old (traditional) LBV's might be surprisingly good, I do think that it is a vintage you should go for to celebrate your promotion.

91 Fonseca all gone from F&R but the 87 Roeda and 96 Vesuvio duty paid look reasonable.

griff wrote:91 Fonseca all gone from F&R but the 87 Roeda and 96 Vesuvio duty paid look reasonable.

Enquiries have been made about the 87 Roeda. That DP V96 price beats Four Wails - very good value..

JB vintage wrote:

djewesbury wrote:I come as a humble acolyte (albeit one whose ranking has passed into the minor vintages for the first time!) with this question.

You are buying a case or two, or three, of Port for General Use. Something with decent cellar age, ready to drink but also with some future ahead of it. Nothing too stellar. What would it be, and why?

Congratulations to your promotion to the rank of Vintage. Even if I do agree that some old (traditional) LBV's might be surprisingly good, I do think that it is a vintage you should go for to celebrate your promotion.

My thoughts exactly!

If you are convinced that you want a vintage port cellar defender then my advice would change slightly. 1985-1998 seem to be vintages which are in plentiful supply, which are drinking really nicely now but will hold, yet the lesser houses occasionally offer up significant bargains in the secondary market. My cut-off for bargain hunting is £20 per bottle - less is a bargain.

Be patient and buy opportunistically and you should be able to get some of the following, the prices quoted being the ones I have seen (or bought at) in the last few years at auction, private sale, wine merchant, or crazy supermarket promotions:

Bomfim 1992 @ £19 ib (merchant)
Canais 1992 @ £18 (auction)
Eira Velha 1994 @ £12 (merchant)
Fonseca Guimaraens 1988 @ £15 (supermarket)
Fonseca Guimaraens 1996 @ £18 (auction)
Martinez 1994 @ £18 ib (merchant)
Tesco 1994 @ £12 (supermarket - some bottle variation but good bottles drink beautifully and poor bottles get returned to Tesco for a refund and replacement)
Vargellas 1998 @ £11 (supermarket - drinking nicely today but will continue to evolve and mature for the next 30 years if well cellared)

Of all of these, the Vargellas 1998 was the bargain I couldn't believe.

Tesco 1994 is decent value at its full price of about £20, but occasionally Tesco seems to mark this down to about £15 and then include the port in their "buy 6 bottles and get 25% off" deals - making it about £12 a bottle and a bit of a steal.

So have fun. My current house port is the Warre LBV from 1986-1981, which are just fabulous, with the good stuff being opened for special occasions (such as me arriving home safely after a day at work).