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This is really rather good. Proper flavoured old school Paulliac. Certainly not the best thing ever, the bass is a bit muzzy but all round complete and tasty. Unlike most 2003 clarets I have tried.

Where did you come across this?

djewesbury wrote:Where did you come across this?

Berrys, en primeur. I really can't remember what I paid for it, which is always a good sign.

LGTrotter wrote:

djewesbury wrote:Where did you come across this?

Berrys, en primeur. I really can't remember what I paid for it, which is always a good sign.

I looked it up, £300 a case in bond, a bit more than I thought.

LGTrotter wrote:I looked it up, £300 a case in bond, a bit more than I thought.

Not that bad though. En primeur this year it's £174. I wish I had some handle on what en primeurs to even bother with.

I can't think of one. Burgundy does sort of still make sense if you know what wines you are after. I haven't bought any claret since a couple of cases of the 2009s. And I could buy them for the same price today. Glad I bought the 2000s and I hope to be glad I bought a lot more of the 2005s

2003 was the last time I bought Bordeaux en-primeur when I bought a case of Leoville Poyferre. Instead I buy the odd case of mature wine every now and then to top up my stocks for current drinking. I got really frustrated with Bordeaux campaigns and pricing when 2004 was released and have seen nothing in the last 10 years to persuade me to change my mind and go back to buying en primeur. Right now current drinking is generally from the 1980s (when I'm not drinking port!).

Oh, Alex you are a class act. I might have three bottles left from the eighties, I was rather profligate with them when I first started drinking wine and they were comparatively reasonable. Whisper it quietly but I never really liked the 82s much, admittedly I never had the big wines. Leoville Barton 88 was what made me stay interested, I've still got one left. I share the frustration with the en primeur rigmarole. Sad to see them disappear from the realms of a drink into something else. I do buy the cheaper stuff (ie not classed growth) and like it for what it is.

In the spirit of re-ignition that Owen has been championing lately...

Berry Bros & Rudd, by email wrote:Many properties have been sensitive to the market and have priced this year’s ‘early-drinking vintage’ differently to that of a ‘Grande Annee’, thus providing very good value. For example, Ch. Leoville-Las Cases has released its en primeur wine at a case price only £15.00 higher than in 1997, while Ch. Clinet and Ch. Coutet have both also released en primeur prices only slightly higher than their prices from 16 years ago. The wines below are all examples of particularly good value to be found from 2013 in Bordeaux.

Anybody agree?

I missed this earlier, thank you Daniel for setting out a soap box for me, here goes;

djewesbury wrote:Anybody agree?

That sounds like no. I would also direct anyone who is interested to Berry's blog from Simon Berry and his exchange with a James Galava. It is a bit like watching your parents dance at a party to see the merchants trying to explain why anybody would want to buy the wines.

I saw a nice exchange on twitter between, I think, Juel Mahoney and somebody where Juel was getting a bit shirty due to the lack of interest in Bordeaux 2013. Despite the last 2 vintages being available cheaper now than on release and the 13s inevitably heading in the same direction Jules seemed to be arguing that it was the consumers bounden duty to go on buying. Furthermore the implication was made that anyone who didn't was an 'investor' rather than a drinker and therefore the root of the problem. Simon Berry levelled the same accusation at Mr Galava.

No, is my response. The idea that Cos 2013 at just shy of £100 a bottle and a 2 year wait represents a drink strikes me as bonkers. I would be massively surprised if the price doesn't drop once out in the market. The last middlin vintage Cos I had struck me as about a tenner for the wine and another fifteen for the kudos of the label. The main problem (of many) for me is that chateaux have stopped thinking about who might actually drink the wines.

I am not a big buyer of Claret, I have about 15 cases in all but I am a drinker, and for all these words I just don't care about en primeur any more. And I don't think many other drinkers do either. And now that the investors and the Chinese have gone home I'm not sure who does.

Bravo!! Encore! Encore!
I think this is the definitive statement, the real last word. Well done Owen. I think the point about the Chinese, and the observation that the growers, merchants and negociants are all whingeing the same way are particularly clear sighted.

I stopped buying en primeur from Bordeaux when I felt that I was being taken for granted, then when I was ignored because I wasn't Chinese and prepared to spend stupid money on wine that needed 20 years in the cellar before it was ready to be drunk. The fact that I had been buying a case or two en primeur every year for nearly 20 years was completely ignored when wine merchants only wanted to deal with addresses in Hong Kong.

So I picked up my toys and stomped off home in a sulk, and I'm still sulking. Only now I get emails of en primeur offers again since wine merchants have had to turn back to their traditional customers. But guess what? In the 5 year gap we've discovered that for the same price as you pay for en primeur Bordeaux you can get mature Bordeaux or other wine. In the last couple of years I have bought in bond cases of Talbot 1983 @£70, Cos d'Estournel 1989 @£30 per half, d'Angludet 1986 @£20 and a fabulous 1964 Rioja @£90. Why on earth would I buy en primeur even if producers and merchants offered me wines at less than 1997 prices?

Pah! I'm not bitter or someone who holds a grudge...