ThePortForum.com

Arranging for samples from the 97 Maturity Assessment has led me to ponder whether it would be better to take the sample at time of decant or at the point when tasting starts? Or perhaps it is neither here nor there. I am leaning towards the "neither here nor there" conclusion, logic as follows.

Sample at decant time: a 5cl sample gets added to a sample bottle, which has say a capacity of 10cl, thus including 5cl of air. Ratio of juice to air = 1:1.

Sample at tasting time: 75cl of juice is double decanted, and the bottle re-corked, leaving 75cl of wine with say 5cl of air in the neck. Ratio of juice to air = 15:1 for the period between decant and tasting. Then at tasting, 5cl of juice added to sample bottle, which again has 5cl of air as well.

So the only real difference here is the period between decant and tasting, as for that period, the 5cl juice sample will be exposed to a reduced juice to air ratio. I don't know enough about the process of oxidisation to know how significant it is for the juice:air ratio to be 1:1. Or whether that amount of oxygen is insignificant etc.

Thoughts?

Our sample jars have a capacity of less than 10ml

Going home now. Will measure.

djewesbury wrote:Our sample jars have a capacity of less than 10ml

That would certainly have an influence. I think the question that really requires an answer is how does oxidisation work. Both over time and according to quantity of oxygen.

Maybe the oxygen in 5cl of air would only cause very slight oxidisation, in which case the emphasis is on getting the juice into a sealed container with minimal air ASAP. But if the oxygen in 5cl of air is sufficient to cause significant oxidisation given enough time, then the emphasis shifts to minimising the air content as far as possible. The ideal scenario would likely be decant, fill sample, displace air with inert gas. Job done.

djewesbury wrote:Our sample jars have a capacity of less than 10ml

Err, 6cl = 60ml.

Of course this could also offer the opportunity for an experiment. Fill 15 sample bottles from one 75cl bottle, then conduct a tasting of one sample bottle say every 24 hours. Over the course of two weeks record how the samples evolve.

I would suggest filling them at the time of decanting for two reasons:

1. It will minimise oxidation, particularly if you fill to the brim.

2. 13 drunk men remembering to fill sample bottles during a tasting could lead to multiple difficulties, not least of which could be forgetting to do it.

If Axel has paid for these samples a zero risk filling policy is appropriate.

Fascinatingly geeky. You say centilitre, I say millilitre, let's fall asleep on a bench.

Anyway, if Axel wants samples posted, he knows the risks. I do have a source for argon in Belfast but do you have the appropriate valves, grommets and seals? No. Air it is then.

Re DRT's comment. Yes. Labelling samples in TBH might not go so well.

DRT wrote:I would suggest filling them at the time of decanting for two reasons:
...
2. 13 drunk men remembering to fill sample bottles during a tasting could lead to multiple difficulties, not least of which could be forgetting to do it.

Wise words which have been heeded (logistics permitting)!

But what of the underlying question about oxidisation...anyone have any thoughts?

flash_uk wrote:...I think the question that really requires an answer is how does oxidisation work. Both over time and according to quantity of oxygen.

Maybe the oxygen in 5cl of air would only cause very slight oxidisation, in which case the emphasis is on getting the juice into a sealed container with minimal air ASAP. But if the oxygen in 5cl of air is sufficient to cause significant oxidisation given enough time, then the emphasis shifts to minimising the air content as far as possible...

My theory is based purely on intuition. If there is virtually no air in the container the likelihood of excessive oxidation will be significantly reduced when compared with a container that is half filled.

That said, because there is a need to open and decant the bottle before filling the sample bottle there will inevitably be some oxygen mixed into the wine. The objective should therefore be to minimise its impact rather than a fruitless attempt to eliminate it.

It is worth bearing in mind that oxidation is unlikely to be the highest risk factor for these June-shipped samples.