ThePortForum.com

Hello,
I have bought a bottle of Mac Duff's Port Vintage 1948. Does anyone know anything of Mac Duff's? When I google I can find that C. da Silva has some tawnies called Mac Duff's but they look quite new and I do not know if they are related. I cannot find any older bottles (except this very bottle).

I would very much appreciate if any of you have any intelligence to share.

And here is a photo of the bottle.

Despite the poor kerning on the typeface I think this is MacDuff's rather than Mac Duff's (i.e. no space between c and D).

I have never heard of the brand.

Is there a back label? If so can you post a pic of it. And a pic of the capsule if it has any writing or markings that is different from the main label already posted.

Also, do you know where the bottle was originally sold?

If you scroll down to the bottom of the picture you can see that it is written Mac Duff.

I have found trade mark registrations on both Mac Duff and MacDuff:
http://uk.trademarkdirect.co.uk/mac-duff-s-1058095
http://uk.trademarkdirect.co.uk/macduff-s-1356110

DRT wrote:Despite the poor kerning on the typeface I think this is MacDuff's rather than Mac Duff's (i.e. no space between c and D).

I have never heard of the brand.

There is no back label and the capsul is red with a crown. I do not know were it was sold but it was recently bought in Germany.

Andy Velebil wrote:Is there a back label? If so can you post a pic of it. And a pic of the capsule if it has any writing or markings that is different from the main label already posted.

Also, do you know where the bottle was originally sold?

JB vintage wrote:If you scroll down to the bottom of the picture you can see that it is written Mac Duff.

Then I suspect it is merely a poor Portuguese translation of the name. All Scottish and Irish names that I am aware of that include "Mc" or "Mac" have these parts conjoined to the principle name. This is the only example I have seen with a space.

I have searched the indices of all of the principle books I have on Port stretching back 150 years and can no reference to MacDuff. I suspect this is simply a brand name (rather than a shipper) that has been created using a random Scottish name to make it sound authentic, but they have spelled it incorrectly. The Port is likely to have been produced by a co-operative or one of the bigger Portuguese conglomerates.

I agree with your conclusion. It is probably a German importer who has made their own brand name. 1948 might be nice anyway.

DRT wrote:All Scottish and Irish names that I am aware of that include "Mc" or "Mac" have these parts conjoined to the principle name. This is the only example I have seen with a space.

This may be the case with Scottish names but it is not so with Irish ones. Names containing 'Mac' in Irish are commonly written in two parts, more particularly so in Irish Gaelic where they are in fact two separate words (for instance, the name James McMahon is written in Irish as Seamus Mac Mathúna).

djewesbury wrote:

DRT wrote:All Scottish and Irish names that I am aware of that include "Mc" or "Mac" have these parts conjoined to the principle name. This is the only example I have seen with a space.

This may be the case with Scottish names but it is not so with Irish ones. Names containing 'Mac' in Irish are commonly written in two parts, more particularly so in Irish Gaelic where they are in fact two separate words (for instance, the name James McMahon is written in Irish as Seamus Mac Mathúna).

But the label is in English, not Irish.

You made a general point and mentioned Irish names. I pointed an incorrect generalisation. I am a pedant. I don't care about the subject. I just need to be right.

Dear JB

I'm Afraid you got your own a Fake Bottle of Port, for many years Port Wine get in real troubles because the dealers make fake bottles of the good Port Wine, all in the name of easy Money.

the seal you shall look is something like this:

http://www.lusawines.com/images_user/pr ... 3aba5c.jpg

http://www.portoxxi.com/back/fotos/vinho/vp18.jpg

Shall contain:

1-Serial number from the registration.
2- Written "Selo de Garantia" (Warranty Seal)
3- on the otherside the IVDP seal with the Royal flag on it.
4- the Royal Flag shall have allawys 5 mini flags inside the coat of arms.

Kind Regards

I don't think this is a fake. It is just a cheap bottle of Port shipped under an unknown name. Why on earth would anyone create a fake and put an unrecognisable name on it?

Dear DRT

Unfurtunally fake port wine is a reallity and without a serial number and a Confirmation from IVDP we can't make sure that is real. When you have a bottle like this one with no Warranty Seal and telling in the Label "Real Douro Port" I dont know but for me is tottally sounds Like a FAKE. Maybe if you can get the name of the producer and get the hand in the old records maybe we can proof something.
Until we proof this is real for me is FAKE.

Kind Regards

José Castro wrote:Dear JB

I'm Afraid you got your own a Fake Bottle of Port, for many years Port Wine get in real troubles because the dealers make fake bottles of the good Port Wine, all in the name of easy Money.

the seal you shall look is something like this:

http://www.lusawines.com/images_user/pr ... 3aba5c.jpg

http://www.portoxxi.com/back/fotos/vinho/vp18.jpg

Shall contain:

1-Serial number from the registration.
2- Written "Selo de Garantia" (Warranty Seal)
3- on the otherside the IVDP seal with the Royal flag on it.
4- the Royal Flag shall have allawys 5 mini flags inside the coat of arms.

Kind Regards

It may not be fake. This vintage may or may not have a Selo as prior to the early 70's Port was exported in bulk and bottled outside Oporto/Gaia. If bottled outside Oporto/Gaia, which the majority of Port was, then it will not have a Selo.

There was a lot of these weird named Ports back in old days for various different countries, stores who wanted their own label, etc. So it could be a real Port.

These are all real Ports, in the IVDP's museum. I took the picture there so I know it's real, and there was hundred's of bottles like these shown. None have Selo's and some have really weird names and labels.

José Castro wrote:Dear DRT

Unfurtunally fake port wine is a reallity and without a serial number and a Confirmation from IVDP we can't make sure that is real. When you have a bottle like this one with no Warranty Seal and telling in the Label "Real Douro Port" I dont know but for me is tottally sounds Like a FAKE. Maybe if you can get the name of the producer and get the hand in the old records maybe we can proof something.
Until we proof this is real for me is FAKE.

Kind Regards

José,

The bottle in the picture is from a period when IVDP Selos did not exist on all bottles, especially vintage port which was shipped in Pipes and bottled by wine merchants in the importing country.

You are trying to apply today's regulations to a bottle that was filled 65 years ago and then declaring it a fake. That is just the wrong way to look at this.

There is absolutely nothing in these pictures that makes me think this bottle is a fake. Nothing at all.

Having drunk several, nay many bottles, which by this definition have been fake I would say these fakers seem to make a very fine bottle of port. So I would say relax JB, the bottle looks fine.

Just an idle thought, could Mac Duff be related in any way to the Duff in Duff Gordon? Anyone got access to a book which talks about the origin of Duff Gordon as a shipper?

AHB wrote:Just an idle thought, could Mac Duff be related in any way to the Duff in Duff Gordon? Anyone got access to a book which talks about the origin of Duff Gordon as a shipper?

I'll check when I get home on Friday.