ThePortForum.com

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9957#p91865]Here[/url] AHB wrote:From time to time we receive press releases and news bulletins from producers and their representatives and these tend to get scattered throughout the forums. I thought it would be easier for future reference if these were given their own thread especially if, as I hope, we will start to receive more of these directly in the future.

In reply to which PhilW wrote:If so, perhaps this would be worthy of a separate sub-forum, rather than just a thread?
It would also provide more visibility per press item, which might be appreciated by the producers.

I second PhilW’s suggestion.

Yes a good idea I think. Perhaps with some loose guidance on thread naming convention, possibly Year then Shipper? For example "2013 Noval".

Good idea. Done.

flash_uk wrote:Yes a good idea I think. Perhaps with some loose guidance on thread naming convention, possibly Year then Shipper? For example "2013 Noval".

Reverse date of original announcement would perhaps allow simple sorting, such as "2015-05-21 Noval".

DRT wrote:Good idea. Done.

I don’t like the “Announcements” name of the sub-forum. Our announcements, or somebody else’s. “Press Releases” would better capture the sense?

jdaw1 wrote:

DRT wrote:Good idea. Done.

I don’t like the “Announcements” name of the sub-forum. Our announcements, or somebody else’s. “Press Releases” would better capture the sense.

Press releases feels very limiting to me. Perhaps "Port News"?

How about: Port news, declarations and releases

or a combination: Press releases, announcements and news

Having just seen the sub-line on the forum I think it's ok as is, though perhaps the simple title "Press" instead of "Announcements" would serve, with the sub-line as currently to provide the detail.

Discussion first. We might be able to agree.

Why not mirror the sub-line: Press, declarations and announcements

WFM.

So what is the secondary description to be.

Please, someone put forward a complete suggestion of the forum title and description.

...and please comment on whether or not we should trawl the site for past announcements and move them to this part of the forum.

Press releases, announcements, and declarations
Announcements from the industry source, or from the official agent of the source

Trawl: yes. A team effort could perhaps be organised.

jdaw1 wrote:Press releases, announcements, and declarations
Announcements from the industry source, or from the official agent of the source

Trawl: yes. A team effort could perhaps be organised.

Make it so

flash_uk wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Press releases, announcements, and declarations
Announcements from the industry source, or from the official agent of the source

Make it so

Done.

What is allowed?

1. Wine journo in Decanter says "Joseph Forrester found in a cave in the upper Douro".

2. Axel posts "Quinta das Flip-flop has declared 2017

3. 2011 Declarations (as compiled by members here)

4. BFT 2016 registration open

Any of those?

DRT wrote:1. Wine journo in Decanter says "Joseph Forrester found in a cave in the upper Douro".

Not industry source.

DRT wrote:2. Axel posts "Quinta das Flip-flop has declared 2017

If quoting an announcement that seems formal, yes.

DRT wrote:3. 2011 Declarations (as compiled by members here)

If quoting an announcement that seems formal, yes.

DRT wrote:4. BFT 2016 registration open

Unsure.

I foresee difficulties here.

Take the third example above. Such threads are amongst the most popular on the forum and are a conglomeration of formal declarations, member observation at tasting events, hearsay and speculation. Do we now need two threads in two different parts of the forum? (I say no)

I am starting to think we are giving ourselves a complexity that is unnecessary.

flash_uk wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Press releases, announcements, and declarations
Announcements from the industry source, or from the official agent of the source

Trawl: yes. A team effort could perhaps be organised.

Make it so

I've just realised that the sub-line suggested is different from the initial one offered. This one seems a bit too fussy and precise, giving rise to some of the confusion about what could be posted. The word news has disappeared for example. If the sub line could be something like "News and announcements from the port trade, press and shippers", then all of the examples cited above would be fine. And aren't those the kinds of thing we want to hear about?

How about...

The Grapevine
Press Releases, Announcements, News and Speculation about Port and the Port Trade.

No.

Harrods is a fine store, but must we name our sub-fora after its circa 1990 wine catalogue?

And the long wording seems to capture everything, so says nothing. News! Journal of Whatever prefers Quinta do X 1955 to Quinta do Y 1975!

If we were to have a poll I would be voting to leave such posts in the main conversation forum.

The fact that no one seems to be able to put a simple, meaningful and generally accepted description together is a fair indication of the confusion that would ensue if we continue down this path.

If no one comes up with a sensible idea by this evening I will revert the forum to where we were. If a sensible suggestion follows we can create whatever that sensible thing is.

Original suggestion was a thread/area for Press releases and new bulletins; I think we have strayed in scope while trying to clarify, and in doing so have confused things. Attempt at clear suggestion:

• Section name "Press releases and news bulletins"
• sub-wording could be similar, e.g. "Press and announcements from the port industry" or some-such
• Intended use only for copies of press announcements seen/copied from other websites or emails and any discussion thereof

While individual declarations could be put there if wanted, since we wish to keep a list of all declarers per year, it seems better to maintain that list as currently in conversation (or reference?) section. Regarding trawling and moving old posts on the same basis, I wouldn't worry about it; I would leave it to people's discretion and move if you feel the need from hereon as per any other thread felt to be in the wrong area.

Thanks, Phil, that is very clear.

Now can you (or someone else) please point us to 10 such announcements or press releases that have been posted on the forum in the past 12 months?

This isn't an attempt to be awkward, I just think we need to question how much use this area would get before making a final decision as to whether or not to keep it.

I still remain unconvinced and if this is to be so tightly limited to official announcements it could easily be solved with a Sticky thread named using the same words at the top of the main Port conversations area of the forum.

jdaw1 wrote:Harrods is a fine store, but must we name our sub-fora after its circa 1990 wine catalogue?

Wrong date.

PhilW wrote:Original suggestion was a thread/area for Press releases and new bulletins; I think we have strayed in scope while trying to clarify, and in doing so have confused things. Attempt at clear suggestion:

• Section name "Press releases and news bulletins"
• sub-wording could be similar, e.g. "Press and announcements from the port industry" or some-such
• Intended use only for copies of press announcements seen/copied from other websites or emails and any discussion thereof

While individual declarations could be put there if wanted, since we wish to keep a list of all declarers per year, it seems better to maintain that list as currently in conversation (or reference?) section. Regarding trawling and moving old posts on the same basis, I wouldn't worry about it; I would leave it to people's discretion and move if you feel the need from hereon as per any other thread felt to be in the wrong area.

Phil seems to want to restrict this to announcements from the port industry, rather than anything published by anybody else. I agree with that restriction.

If it is to be restricted to that extent, then Derek's suggestion about a sticky thread makes more sense to me. Probably best in the reference section, a sticky thread called "Announcements index", where the first post contains an index to other threads, by year:
2015 announcements
2014 announcements
Etc

Those other threads can then contain all the relevant posts about announcements by the trade.

Very much like the offline summary thread we currently have.

DRT wrote:Now can you (or someone else) please point us to 10 such announcements or press releases that have been posted on the forum in the past 12 months?

Am not sure I can make that many, but a quick look reveals at least six candidates in the last six months:

Everest Dinner Party
New port bond from the Symingtons
Fonseca Bicentenary crusted to be released
1815 Ferreira to be auctioned
Fonseca Bicentennial tasting announced
Sandeman cask 33 announcement

All of the above include an announcement from port industry, generally with some discussion (so useful to have each as a thread, not just one thread with all); our current setup works ok (all from Conversation) but if we had a separate area then these could easily have been there if we feel it worthwhile for organisation, and if their number is likely to increase as suggested by AHB.

edit: make that seven in six months, I forgot Alex's latest one too.

I love the irony of your first example (ignoring the crime)

Derek’s argument about the fewness of examples is starting to look right.

jdaw1 wrote:Derek’s argument about the fewness of examples is starting to look right.

Perhaps a blend of Mike and Phil's ideas would solve the problem?

press releases continue to be posted in the main forum as discussion threads but we have a Sticky that acts as an index?

DRT wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Derek’s argument about the fewness of examples is starting to look right.

Perhaps a blend of Mike and Phil's ideas would solve the problem?

press releases continue to be posted in the main forum as discussion threads but we have a Sticky that acts as an index?

That's what I meant. Better explanation than I managed!

I'm not sure an index is especially worthwhile. To me the value of having such announcements in a separate thread is organisational, rather than to locate old ones (the latter being the primary value of an index), plus it requires additional effort (vs self-indexing by sub-forum use, if others see the value in an index for this).

I have no problem with the posts remaining in the main conversation forum if preferred.

I'm becoming irritated. I get a fair number of press releases from the marketing departments of port shippers. I anticipate receiving a larger number in the future. I wish to share these with my fellow port lovers.

I had planned to start a single thread into which these would be posted and into which other forum members could paste announcements if they received the relevant emails before me.

I was willing to put these into a separate sub-forum but I'm now in danger of not knowing what the f is going on.

As far as I am concerned, I wish to create a permanent record of the documents issued by or on behalf of the port producers. There are other threads and other places for us to record that we have heard that Quinta das Flip-Flop has declared the 2103 vintage or that SFE has purchases Quinta de Vargellas but I want somewhere to record the actual official press release.

If no-one else is interested then no problem. I go back to having a single thread for all official announcements.

I don't think this is anything to do with whether or not people are interested press releases. Of course we are interested in press releases, why would we not be?

The question at hand is whether they should be in one thread or a new area of the forum. I think a supplementary question is whether or not they should be discussed in the thread in which they are posted or in a separate discussion thread. If there are no rules we will have chaos, which is what we currently have.

As the originator of the idea could AHB please say how he would like this to work. We will then implement that and see how it goes.

AHB wrote:I'm becoming irritated. I get a fair number of press releases from the marketing departments of port shippers. I anticipate receiving a larger number in the future. I wish to share these with my fellow port lovers.

I had planned to start a single thread into which these would be posted and into which other forum members could paste announcements if they received the relevant emails before me.

I was willing to put these into a separate sub-forum but I'm now in danger of not knowing what the f is going on.

As far as I am concerned, I wish to create a permanent record of the documents issued by or on behalf of the port producers. There are other threads and other places for us to record that we have heard that Quinta das Flip-Flop has declared the 2103 vintage or that SFE has purchases Quinta de Vargellas but I want somewhere to record the actual official press release.

If no-one else is interested then no problem. I go back to having a single thread for all official announcements.

I am interested in hearing such news. If my suggestion of use of a sub-forum has led to the perception of a lack of interest, then please ignore my suggestion and continue as you had started with a single thread for these - I would personally certainly be interested to read them, and to contribute if I hear any such first.

AHB wrote:the actual official press release.

That is consistent with my stringent preference.

(Alex: we’re not trying to annoy you, honest. We want to keep these. We’re just devising process and rules.)

OK. As the originator of the idea, here are my proposals:

• We have a separate sub-forum
• The sub-forum is used only for threads starting with official news releases or announcements from port producers, their publicity agents or retailers
• Discussion relating directly to the announcement can take place in the thread
• More general discussion (such as the list of shippers declaring the 2013 vintage) should take place under "Port Conversations" or elsewhere

Done - using AHB's words.

Two changes, without so much as a by-your-leave:
• “Press Releases & Announcements” → “Press Releases and Announcements” (to match other fora);
• “Official news releases or announcements from port producers, their publicity agents or retailers.” → “Official news releases or announcements from port producers, their publicity agents, or retailers.” (the comma added because the retailers might not belong to the port producers).

jdaw1 wrote:Two changes, without so much as a by-your-leave

I was too afraid to risk incurring the wrath of The Originator. Well done for being so brave.