Port for sale at auction

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 16:30 Tue 31 Mar 2009

Brentwood Wine had a Niepoort 2000 up that started at $20. I put in an auto-bid up to $50, but 'burgundyman' out-bid me. So I drove him up to $70, which is essentially retail price for the bottle because there are various places on the web selling at or around that price.

I hope that isn't any of you guys!

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 20:35 Mon 06 Apr 2009

JJ Buckley has an interesting bottle for auction at winecommune.com... it is a 1927 C Da Silva Fine Douro Port Five Crown Port. What makes it really interesting is that the auction has no reserve, and bidding currently sits at $12.

My reading of the label says this is just a basic ruby, and so therefore probably long past being drinkable. If that is the case, then $12 for what is simply an interesting bottle is probably about right (at least to me). But if this is actually a Vintage Port it might make a great bottle to have for the next Old & Odd.

What do you think? Drinkable or no?

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 20:43 Mon 06 Apr 2009

Glenn E. wrote:What do you think? Drinkable or no?

Only one way to find out

. Shame it probably didn’t get any wine from 1927 if that was the year in which it was bottled.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 20:44 Mon 06 Apr 2009

Glenn E. wrote:JJ Buckley has an interesting bottle for auction at winecommune.com... it is a 1927 C Da Silva Fine Douro Port Five Crown Port. What makes it really interesting is that the auction has no reserve, and bidding currently sits at $12.

My reading of the label says this is just a basic ruby, and so therefore probably long past being drinkable. If that is the case, then $12 for what is simply an interesting bottle is probably about right (at least to me). But if this is actually a Vintage Port it might make a great bottle to have for the next Old & Odd.

What do you think? Drinkable or no?

i might have to throw in 15$ bid =)

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 20:45 Mon 06 Apr 2009

Well it does say "Port of the 1927 Vintage" on the label, so it probably does contain 1927 grapes.

Now I'm second guessing... wouldn't a "Port of the 1927 Vintage" be a VP?

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 20:46 Mon 06 Apr 2009

g-man wrote:i might have to throw in 15$ bid =)

I'm planning to wait until closer to close and then bid on it. There's 6 days left right now... no point in attracting attention to the auction just yet.

Post by **jdaw1** » 01:16 Fri 10 Apr 2009

Bonham’s, 28th April 2009, lot 589 wrote:Hutcheson 1970 (1)
Warre 1975 (10) (2 top shoulder)
Graham 1980 (3)

14 bottles
Estimate: £280 - 340

For which I shan’t be bidding.

Post by **DRT** » 02:13 Fri 10 Apr 2009

jdaw1 wrote:
Bonham’s, 28th April 2009, lot 589 wrote:Hutcheson 1970 (1)
Warre 1975 (10) (2 top shoulder)
Graham 1980 (3)

14 bottles
Estimate: £280 - 340
For which I shan’t be bidding.

Do you think a bid of £1.28 will win? Slightly overstated but worth the risk I think.

Derek

Post by **jdaw1** » 02:43 Fri 10 Apr 2009

Three bottles of Graham 1980 are worth ≈£120, so this lot should go for about £100 hammer.

Post by **DRT** » 02:55 Fri 10 Apr 2009

jdaw1 wrote:Three bottles of Graham 1980 are worth ≈£120, so this lot should go for about £100 hammer.

I was banking on 10 x bottles of 1975 having a negative effect

Post by **jdaw1** » 05:28 Fri 10 Apr 2009

No no no. You don’t understand. 1975s are worth zero. It’s only the Hutcheson 1970 that’s worth negative.

benread · Post by **benread** » 07:14 Fri 10 Apr 2009

jdaw1 wrote:No no no. You don’t understand. 1975s are worth zero. It’s only the Hutcheson 1970 that’s worth negative.

After our experience at the RAF Club, someone would have to pay me to put the Hutcheson 1970 in my mouth!

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 11:59 Tue 14 Apr 2009

Glenn E. wrote:Now I'm second guessing... wouldn't a "Port of the 1927 Vintage" be a VP?

Not necessarily - could be colheita or even LBV.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 13:43 Tue 14 Apr 2009

Glenn E. wrote:JJ Buckley has an interesting bottle for auction at winecommune.com... it is a 1927 C Da Silva Fine Douro Port Five Crown Port. What makes it really interesting is that the auction has no reserve, and bidding currently sits at $12.

Did anyone from

buy this in the end? The final price was $168.00.

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 16:22 Tue 14 Apr 2009

Not I. It rapidly climbed out of my price range for something that old and of completely unknown quality.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 16:25 Tue 14 Apr 2009

Glenn E. wrote:Not I. It rapidly climbed out of my price range for something that old and of completely unknown quality.

i think toberdick is the "house" buyer whenever something doens't hit reserves.

SushiNorth · Post by **SushiNorth** » 18:05 Tue 14 Apr 2009

g-man wrote:i think toberdick is the "house" buyer whenever something doens't hit reserves.

He's bid on lots of things I wouldn't touch, and often higher than I. However, given that he hasn't exclusively purchased from JJB and used to sell, I'm betting just another port nut. I sent him a note to see

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 13:46 Fri 17 Apr 2009

Morrell's has an auction coming up, for a no label, believed to be taylors 1924 ..
I've got a bid in, but was wondering is < 300$ worth a punt?
The fill is consistent with a 1924 bottle (or possibly poor storage of a much younger bottle)

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 16:14 Fri 17 Apr 2009

Mid shoulder fill and signs of seepage...at that price an easy pass.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 16:21 Fri 17 Apr 2009

Andy V wrote:Mid shoulder fill and signs of seepage...at that price an easy pass.

yea, but a perfect fill of this bottle will run in the 1000$ from the last christie's auction...

are you saying it's an easy pass because it won't be drinkable?

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 16:27 Fri 17 Apr 2009

At that age and condition, it's a crap shoot. You've got a 50/50 chance that it is either good or bad. What worries me the most is the low fill level combined with signs of seepage. To me that's the death sentence for such an old bottle. If you're willing to take that risk, then go ahead. For me, I'd rather wait for another opportunity with a bottle in better condition and pay a little more. THere are lots of older bottles in great condition you can buy in the $300 range.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 16:32 Fri 17 Apr 2009

Andy V wrote:At that age and condition, it's a crap shoot. You've got a 50/50 chance that it is either good or bad. What worries me the most is the low fill level combined with signs of seepage. To me that's the death sentence for such an old bottle. If you're willing to take that risk, then go ahead. For me, I'd rather wait for another opportunity with a bottle in better condition and pay a little more. THere are lots of older bottles in great condition you can buy in the $300 range.

ah okay I see, doesn't signs of seepage mean that the fill level will go down anyway? =) ...
Was hoping for better then 50/50 chance since if it is a 24, the year might be good enough to take a punt.
I've got a bid in at 240$... which with buyers would hit about 280$

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 22:38 Fri 01 May 2009

Hart davis has an upcoming auction the 16th of may.

some interesting bits

http://www.hdhwine.com/content.cfm?Cont ... lot_no=681 Fonseca 1991

http://www.hdhwine.com/content.cfm?Cont ... lot_no=683 cockburn 94

http://www.hdhwine.com/content.cfm?Cont ... lot_no=586 Fonseca 70

and a croft 94 which Josh and I are eyeing, as I'm over my monthly fonseca budget =)

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 18:28 Sat 16 May 2009

think someone's been reading our notes.
10 pack of f 1970 - 1600$

and the croft went unreasonably at 340$ ~ 56$ / bottle

who are these people overpaying?

SushiNorth · Post by **SushiNorth** » 22:15 Sat 16 May 2009

Feh. Too high by far.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 20:10 Sun 17 May 2009

I’m not sure if this represents typical pickings on ebay (I only periodically look at Port on it) but there are a few magnums and old bottles on at the moment:

Magnum of Dow’s 1949, finishing 21st May, current price £43.00.

Magnum of Dow’s 1980, finishing 22nd May, current price £1 (buy-it-now: £55); also selling a Croft 1963 current price £23.22.

1947 Constantinos, finishing 22nd May, current price £100; also selling a 1934 Cepa Velha, finishing 20th May, current price £50.

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 11:17 Mon 18 May 2009

The seller of the Dows 1980 and and Croft 1963 used to have 2xDow 1977 for £50 buy it now. I was gutted that I didn't pick up any at the time. I sometimes have a search on ebay for port. What really surprises me is the amount of 1975's, people seem to think they can command a price of £40+ for a bottle of Dows. Even worse, people buy them.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 13:12 Mon 18 May 2009

Jacob,

Keep an eye on the ebay auctions for us. I have a poor view of the ebay auction route for acquiring port as prices are often extraordinarily high. As Alex M says, prices paid for 1975 ports are sometimes quite astonishing, but I often find that prices are very high and sometimes (often?) higher than would be paid at retail.

Perhaps you could post here what prices these bottle achieve?

Alex

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 13:19 Mon 18 May 2009

used to have 2xDow 1977 for £50 buy it now. I was gutted that I didn't pick up any at the time.

Gutt not - I can spare a few bottles @ £42 each..

Tom

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 13:32 Mon 18 May 2009

A few days ago I made a table of the bottles I had been watching that had been sold over the past few weeks:

House Vintage £ Size
Calem 1985 25 75
Dow 1980 50 150
Dow 1985 33 75
Fonseca 1970 51.12 75
Fonseca 1994 41(NS) 75
Fonseca 1983 43 75
Fonseca G 1984 60 75
Fonseca Panascal 1986 26 75
Grahams 1970 56 75
Niepoort 1952 Colheita 77 75
Quarles Harris 1977 25 75
Ramos Pinto 1983 LBV 10 75
Taylors 1977 67 75
Taylors 1981 LBV 37.03 150
Taylors 1960 61 75
Taylors Vargellas 1972 42 75
Taylors Vargellas 1988 10 75
Warres 1966 36 75
Warres 1985 20 75

Sorry its a bit off centre, I couldn't find an easier way of adding it.

Few jump out as great bargains, given that their provenance is questionable. I also missed the Fonseca Panascal 1986, i think that went for a good price.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 13:52 Mon 18 May 2009

Alex M wrote:A few days ago I made a table of the bottles I had been watching that had been sold over the past few weeks:

Sorry its a bit off centre, I couldn't find an easier way of adding it.

Few jump out as great bargains, given that their provenance is questionable. I also missed the Fonseca Panascal 1986, i think that went for a good price.

Do those prices include shipping?

AHB wrote:Keep an eye on the ebay auctions for us. I have a poor view of the ebay auction route for acquiring port as prices are often extraordinarily high. As Alex M says, prices paid for 1975 ports are sometimes quite astonishing, but I often find that prices are very high and sometimes (often?) higher than would be paid at retail.

Perhaps you could post here what prices these bottle achieve?

Sure, will do.

As both Alexs have pointed out, I've never thought of ebay as a good place to acquire bottles. The VPs are always pretty pricy, especially once one adds the £10-20 shipping that they usually command. I also worry about provinence; most bottles seem to be "back of the cupboard" in origin which militates against my desire to spend a lot of money on them.

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 14:04 Mon 18 May 2009

No shipping. Shipping seems to vary from £5-£15.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 14:19 Mon 18 May 2009

As both Alexs have pointed out, I've never thought of ebay as a good place to acquire bottles.

Agreed - eBay's rather puritanical attitude to alcohol makes it the perfect place to offload dodgy bottles, as you are normally only allowed to sell a bottle as 'a collectible container' and not as something to be drunk. There is therefore no recourse..

I think they do have a route for wine merchants to sell for consumption, but few bottles seem to be offered in that manner..

Tom

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 19:43 Mon 18 May 2009

uncle tom wrote:Agreed - eBay's rather puritanical attitude to alcohol makes it the perfect place to offload dodgy bottles, as you are normally only allowed to sell a bottle as 'a collectible container' and not as something to be drunk. There is therefore no recourse..

Yes, though I wouldn’t attribute it to malice; I think most bottles are just ones that people have discovered in the backs of cupboards and the like which is why there seem to be a higher concentration of older LBVs than one might otherwise expect.

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 11:18 Wed 20 May 2009

To further the ebay tracking, a case of Taylors 1985 has just come up for £550 with a Buy It Now price of £650. A search on winesearcher reveals that the £650 is overpriced but the £550 is a respectful price considering the competition.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 12:14 Sat 23 May 2009

Final prices for those auctions:

Dow 1947: £205 (+£15P&P)Â¹
Dow 1955: £55 (+£15P&P)
Croft 1963: £100 (+£20P&P)
Constantinos 1947: unsold at £100 (+£20P&P)
Cepa Velha 1934: unsold at £50 (+£15P&P)Â²

Â¹: Turns out that this was a regular bottle and not a magnum, a ’47 not a ’49, with a level ‟just below the level of the neck”.
Â²: Closer inspection of the photographs suggest that this is a Colheita.

No real bargains and £120 for a Croft ’63 seems pretty steep...Not sure how much a Dow ’47 with a dodgy history is usually worth, though.

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 11:05 Mon 01 Jun 2009

Seller is listing these for sale on ebay.

Dow 1970 Vintage Port
Fonseca 1970 Vintage Port
Warre 1975 Vintage Port (x3) £20
Dow 1975 Vintage Port
Smith Woodhouse 1975 Vintage Port
Graham Malvedos 1976 Vintage Port (x2) £20
Dalva 1977 Vintage Port £20
Fonseca Guimaraens 1978 Vintage Port £25
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1978 Vintage Port £20
Warre 1980 Vintage Port £20
Royal Oporto 1980 Vintage £20
Port Royal Oporto 1982 Vintage Port 320
Warre 1983 Vintage Port £20
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1984 Vintage Port £20
Burmester Oporto 1985 Vintage Port £20
Smith Woodhouse 1985 Vintage Port £20

Postage is £12 per bottle. I was tempted to take a punt of the Vargellas but provence worries me.

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 15:14 Tue 16 Jun 2009

New Straker Chadwick catalogue is online for the sale on the 27th of June.

smisse · Post by **smisse** » 15:47 Wed 24 Jun 2009

Maybe interesting:
http://www.veilingsylvies.be/downloads/ ... 090627.pdf
Port included:
1968 Quinta do Vargella's Vintage Port, Taylors, 1 wax capsule broken
3 bottle(s) Per lot € 160-220
1935 Porto Constantino Vintage Port, Dom, 2 sdl, neck
3 bottle(s) Per lot € 190-250
1935 Porto Constantino Vintage Port, Dom, 1 sdl, 2 slightly torn labels, neck
3 bottle(s) Per lot € 190-250
1991 Quinta do Noval Vintage Port, Dom
4 bottle(s) Per lot € 100-150
1998 Silval Vintage Port, Quinta do Noval, Owc
6 bottle(s) Per lot € 120-180
1997 Skeffington VintageVintage Port, Dom, Owc
6 bottle(s) Per lot € 90-120

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 01:46 Sun 12 Jul 2009

Acker Auctions.

Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port - Vintage 1955
5lbsl, 3gsl, excellent color and condition
Above 4 bottles per lot $1200-1600
Minimum Bid: $ 900

Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port - Vintage 1970
2ts, 12lbsl, 12lgsl, 5spc, 12wc
Minimum Bid: $ 1100

Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port - Vintage 1992
owc
Current Winning Bid: $ 1450 (PRC4ME)
Next Winning Bid: $ 1500

Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port - Vintage 1963
12bsl, 12scc, 12crc
Minimum Bid: $ 2000

Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port - Vintage 1977
4bsl, 2hbsl, 6cc, 2sos
Current Winning Bid: $ 500 (ilyappa)
Next Winning Bid: $ 550
Number of bids: 1

Seppelt Para Liqueur Vintage Port - Vintage 1947
1sos
2 .738 liters per lot $200-260
Current Winning Bid: $ 160 (michel22)
Next Winning Bid: $ 170
Number of bids: 1

Graham's Vintage Port - Vintage 1963
Current Winning Bid: $ 160 (michel22)
Next Winning Bid: $ 170
Number of bids: 1

Niepoort Vintage Port - Vintage 2003
Above 3 half-bottles and 1 magnum per lot $90-120
Current Winning Bid: $ 90 (logres)
Next Winning Bid: $ 100
Number of bids: 4

Niepoort Vintage Port - Vintage 2003
6 magnums per lot $300-400

Current Winning Bid: $ 280 (subir)
Next Winning Bid: $ 300
Number of bids: 2

Smith Woodhouse Vintage Port
- Vintage 1985 (1)
Smith Woodhouse Vintage Tawny Colheita Port
- Vintage 1986 (3)
- Vintage 1986 (1)
- Vintage 1986 (3)
Smith Woodhouse Vintage Port
- Vintage 2003 (1)
Sandeman Port
- Vintage NV Founder's Reserve (2)
Blaufrankisch
- Vintage 2004 Heinrich (1)
Above 12 bottles per lot $160-240

Current Winning Bid: $ 220 (KenG)
Next Winning Bid: $ 240
Number of bids: 7

Some interesting stuff,
I've got the winning bid on the niepoort 2003 mags and will try and win it.

lngn2 · Post by **lngn2** » 10:13 Wed 29 Jul 2009

We've a modest selection up for auction next week on Bid for Wine (http://www.bidforwine.co.uk):

Burmester Colheita 1940
Calem Port (presumed LBV - special commerative bottling released in 1989)
Quinta de Vargellas 1982
Cruz Vintage Port 1989
Graham’s LBV 1984

There are reserves set on most of these lots but they're very modest as the buyer is keen to sell due to her pending emigration.

Any questions please do let me know!

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 17:12 Sat 01 Aug 2009

Recent ebay searched revealed:

1 x Quinta do Vesuvio 1991: Currently at £10.50.

1 x Sandeman 1977: Currently at 0.99p

1 x Cockburns 1963: Currently at £45

I'm planning to bid on the Vesuvio. I've recently been trying to acquire a few bottles of each Vesuvio Vintage, so if anybody knows of any going cheap or on offer, i'd be much obliged if you could send me a pm or post on here.

Thanks,

Alex

Alex M · Post by **Alex M** » 16:33 Sun 02 Aug 2009

I managed to get the 1991 Vesuvio for £11.60. At that price, given unknown provenance, I think it is worth it. Another lot up on ebay is a case of 1991 Noval VP. Bidding ends on the 4th and at the moment it's at £50.

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 19:32 Sun 02 Aug 2009

Alex M wrote:I managed to get the 1991 Vesuvio for £11.60. At that price, given unknown provenance, I think it is worth it. Another lot up on ebay is a case of 1991 Noval VP. Bidding ends on the 4th and at the moment it's at £50.

Were you lucky enough not to have the price double with P&P?

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 14:38 Thu 13 Aug 2009

Someone, somewhere, has a large amount of Borges '80 to offload.

Over the last year or so it has been appearing regularly in provincial auctions, usually in six bottle lots. Now a fairly large parcel is coming up at Christies, and might go for a song.

Question is.. is it any good?

Has anyone had a chance to try this one?

Tom

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 15:07 Thu 13 Aug 2009

Never tried the 80' but did have the '82 once or twice. That one was very weak.

Post by **jdaw1** » 15:29 Thu 13 Aug 2009

The 1963 (e.g., e.g.) didn’t particularly impress.

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 03:22 Mon 28 Sep 2009

Brentwood Wines has a large (for them) collection of Ports up for auction right now. The auction closes on Wednesday at 11:00 am Pacific (19:00 GMT). Of note, they have 13 bottles of 1977 Dow with various quality levels with the "excellent" bottles having an opening bid of just $75.

They also have a 1963 Fonseca (current bid $230), nine 1963 Dows, seven 1963 Warres, and a smattering of slightly younger Ports including a handful of 1970 Taylors.

Port is part of the European auction, so you'll have to dig down to find it. For some reason every time I try to get a URL to post it includes my user name and password so I can't provide a direct link for you. My handle there is "knutliott" and the only active bid I have right now is on one bottle of 1970 Taylor.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 16:14 Wed 30 Sep 2009

Fonseca 66 @150$

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 21:44 Wed 30 Sep 2009

g-man wrote:Fonseca 66 @150$

Score!