1992 Quinta do Vesuvio Colheita

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Axel P
Niepoort 1977
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1992 Quinta do Vesuvio Colheita

Post by Axel P » 21:47 Wed 10 Sep 2008

Yes I am not totally drunk and it isn t a typo: it is a colheita from Vesuvio. Served to me on the weekend at the quinta due to the courtesy of Dominic Symington together with the 89, 94 and a cask sample of the 07 and a Dows White to start with.

I took the remaining content of it in the ammo-box of my aircraft back home and filled a halfe bottle for Mr. Vesuvio. The rest is exactly one glass full which I am presently staring at.

Much darker than I expected it to be, talking about 16 years of age. I assume this wine has spent some time in big vats before it has been "piped ". I just served my mother in law a 10y old Taylor and compared the colour which was very alike.
Decent concentration. The nose showes a very good complexity whilst being very fruity. The wood aromas are very nicely integrated. The palate is very deep, fresh and fruity with the typical tawny sensations in the background (nuts, dry fruits). Very good complexity.

Pleasant aftertaste with a good length. I would rate it 17 with more potential along the way.

Axel
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jdaw1
Taylor 1900
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by jdaw1 » 02:25 Thu 11 Sep 2008

Most unusual. I’m sure A‘V’B will be very pleased.

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DRT
Graham’s 1948
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by DRT » 22:56 Thu 11 Sep 2008

Axel,

Did I read somewhere that the Syms plan to release a Vesuvio Colheita or Reserva at some point soon? Is this it?

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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uncle tom
Dow 1980
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by uncle tom » 23:23 Thu 11 Sep 2008

Did I read somewhere that the Syms plan to release a Vesuvio Colheita or Reserva at some point soon?
I don't know, but their accountants would frown..

Colheitas are a waste of time, commercially, (but call them Single Tawny's and you've got a product..)

A Vesuvio LBV seems long overdue, given their profitability...

Tom
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DRT
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by DRT » 00:30 Fri 12 Sep 2008

I am sure they are going for a wood-aged something, but not LBV. I have seen the "Special Reserve 1996" they bottled for family consumption and suspect that was the prototype. Mr Vesuvio will know, but he is currently visiting the former colonies in the far south so we may have to wait.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Glenn E.
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by Glenn E. » 01:07 Fri 12 Sep 2008

uncle tom wrote:Colheitas are a waste of time, commercially
Sad, but probably true. To me the pinnacle of Port production is not a classic VP but rather a classic Colheita.

Both require great skill and knowledge to create - the right grapes, a good year, and knowledge of how the Port will age. But VP is too easy - you put it in a bottle and sell it, at which point you can wash your hands and be done. It needs proper aging to be sure, but that's the customer's responsibility. A great Colheita requires proper aging for which the shipper is responsible. In addition, the angel's share means that you get less end product making Colheita than you do making VP. It takes more commitment to create a great Colheita.

I admire that extra effort and dedication. I also just happen to like Tawnies more than Rubies. :wink:
Glenn Elliott

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DRT
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by DRT » 01:33 Fri 12 Sep 2008

That is an interseting way to look at this Glenn. My own view is that the shippers have more chances to get a Colheita right than they do with a VP. With VP they have one chance to blend and little or no choice over when to remove from wood and bottle so if it is not right first time they have lost the game. With Colheita they have numerous opportunities to do all those things and correct minor flaws or mistakes which. I think, makes it easier.

I have read that from the wine-makers point of view the aged tawny is the hardest of all. Establishing consistency year on year and decade after decade using different wines from differnet vintages yet maintaining a house style must be a real challenge.

All that said: Vintage Port rules :P
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Glenn E.
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by Glenn E. » 02:14 Fri 12 Sep 2008

DRT wrote:That is an interseting way to look at this Glenn. My own view is that the shippers have more chances to get a Colheita right than they do with a VP. With VP they have one chance to blend and little or no choice over when to remove from wood and bottle so if it is not right first time they have lost the game. With Colheita they have numerous opportunities to do all those things and correct minor flaws or mistakes which. I think, makes it easier.

I have read that from the wine-makers point of view the aged tawny is the hardest of all. Establishing consistency year on year and decade after decade using different wines from differnet vintages yet maintaining a house style must be a real challenge.

All that said: Vintage Port rules :P
I have also read that aged tawny is the hardest of all to make, and I can understand why. But I discount the difficulty in this case because, to me, it is caused by an artificial standard. "House style" doesn't seem to be all that consistent despite the effort put into it (at least with regard to VP) so it seems like wasted effort to me. And since aged tawnies are all blends... well you can REALLY go a long way to correct problems in an aged tawny.

I have also heard that VP is the easiest to make because even the basic rubies involve more blending than VP. Easiest to make, yet somehow given the highest status and price? Sounds like marketing genius to me! :wink:

I'm not sure which numerous opportunities you're referring to with regard to Colheitas. I'm sure that a certain amount of filtering out of the bad barrels occurs when they're combined as the angels take their shares (and those "bad" barrels probably end up in aged tawnies), but it's not like Colheitas are blends any more than VPs. And while that filtering should no doubt improve the overall quality of a Colheita, it also means there's even less Colheita available to sell than VP from a comparable harvest.

To me the chance for improvement is balanced by the responsibility of storage. People don't blame the shipper if they get a damaged bottle of VP... it's written off with an "oh well, we just got a bad bottle" as long as the VP in question is known to be good overall. But there's no excuse for a bad Colheita (assuming it was recently bottled) - it falls squarely on the shipper.

And lastly, take a look at the number of "great" vintages for VP and Colheita. Which occurs more often (and is therefore easier to do)? Granted - once you've declared a VP you're stuck with it as a VP no matter how it turns out, while lesser quality Colheitas can be blended into aged tawnies to disappear, never to stain your reputation for making great Colheitas. But the predominance of great VP still tells me that it is easier to make than a great Colheita.

Luckily for me, most non-Portugese drink rubies so there is more Colheita and aged tawny left for me! :D :D :D
Glenn Elliott

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DRT
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by DRT » 05:56 Fri 12 Sep 2008

Glenn E. wrote: I'm not sure which numerous opportunities you're referring to with regard to Colheitas. I'm sure that a certain amount of filtering out of the bad barrels occurs when they're combined as the angels take their shares (and those "bad" barrels probably end up in aged tawnies), but it's not like Colheitas are blends any more than VPs.
Both of these styles are blends from different lots, the difference between these and Ruby/Tawny being that the lots are all from one year. To say they are not blends is just wrong.

The numerous opportunities arrise because over the years different lots can be blended together in differed quantities and they can decide to bottle at any time after 7 years in wood. There is also the taboo subject of "refreshing" where young wines are used to replace the angel's share. :roll:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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JacobH
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by JacobH » 11:58 Fri 12 Sep 2008

Glenn E. wrote:And lastly, take a look at the number of "great" vintages for VP and Colheita. Which occurs more often (and is therefore easier to do)? Granted - once you've declared a VP you're stuck with it as a VP no matter how it turns out, while lesser quality Colheitas can be blended into aged tawnies to disappear, never to stain your reputation for making great Colheitas. But the predominance of great VP still tells me that it is easier to make than a great Colheita.
Isn’t this more a demand issue? Looking at the IVDP stats, only half as much Colheita is sold as VP, so its not surprising that there are fewer “declarations† for it from the more VP-orientated shippers. Indeed, if we compare a main Colheita shipper, like Niepoort with a main VP shipper like Taylor, between 1975 and 2000, Niepoort released 10 Colheitas (1976, 1979, 1980, 1984, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1991, 1994, 1995 and 1998) which, counting generously, compares pretty favourably to Taylor’s 9 VP declarations (1975, 1977, 1980, 1983, 1985, 1992, 1994, 1997, 2000). I just don’t think there’s the demand for more frequent releases.

Of course, what we really should be admiring are the SQVPs, which have about the least blending of any sort of Port :wink: :wink:
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RonnieRoots
Fonseca 1980
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by RonnieRoots » 14:29 Sat 13 Sep 2008

Axel P wrote:Yes I am not totally drunk and it isn t a typo: it is a colheita from Vesuvio. Served to me on the weekend at the quinta due to the courtesy of Dominic Symington
Axel, am I right in guessing this was the Reserve (made for family consumption only) that you tasted? LadyR was lucky enough to taste the 1991 once, all I could do was make a picture of the barrel of 1992:

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Glenn E.
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by Glenn E. » 16:35 Sat 13 Sep 2008

JacobH wrote:Isn’t this more a demand issue? Looking at the IVDP stats, only half as much Colheita is sold as VP, so its not surprising that there are fewer “declarations† for it from the more VP-orientated shippers.
I wouldn't think so, but then again I'm not actually in the business and trying to sell Port so I can't be sure. To me, lower demand would simply mean smaller declarations, not fewer declarations. Plus you can turn that argument around - the fact that twice as much VP is sold as Colheita could be a result of the fact that it is easier to make, and is therefore marketed more. After all, wouldn't you put more effort into selling the higher profit margin item? "Demand" is often production based.

I'm not sure I buy your comparison of Taylor and Niepoort. Taylor is a bigger house with a much stronger backbone. They can afford to declare their VP less often in order to keep it an exclusive product. If they don't declare one year, then that year they can bottle an SQVP or use the grapes to blend into the LBVs or whatever. Niepoort may need to "declare" their Colheitas more often in order to keep the money flowing, especially considering how making Colheitas (and aged Tawnies) ties up and reduces your inventory. I think you need a full market analysis to get a comparison, not just two shippers, or you'd at least need to count any SQVP declarations during that same period since there's really no comparable tawny class of Port.

And then there's the side issue that VP-oriented shippers just might not be any good at making Colheitas (and vice-versa). They're different skills. So the fact that VP-oriented shippers don't declare as much Colheita is expected, but the fact that there are fewer declarations overall still indicates - at least to me - that it's harder to do than making VP.
Glenn Elliott

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Axel P
Niepoort 1977
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by Axel P » 20:33 Tue 16 Sep 2008

Exactly, Ronny, and I took the exact same picture because the pipa is still lying in this place.

All the best

Axel
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mosesbotbol
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
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Re: 1992 Vesuvio COLHEITA

Post by mosesbotbol » 13:10 Thu 18 Sep 2008

I sure hope Vesuvio does not come out with LBV's. I could see Colheita in the future, but I would not bottle anything under 20 years in wood. Vesuvio has done a masterful job of presenting itself as a designer, high end port. Just look at the foot lockers and marketing material. Having a low-mid range port product will just distract sully the Vesuvio name. Save the LBV's younger Colheita for the Dow brand as it is already do this successful.

Their Colheitas should do numbered bottle runs from a specific pipe like Scotch to add "value" to the product. Maybe a hand signed bottle too...
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