Upside-Down Union Jacks

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jdaw1
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Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 23:15 Tue 07 Aug 2012

Some pedants are, allegedly, annoyed by Upside-Down Union Jacks.

Please send me photos of like crimes.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by RAYC » 23:39 Tue 07 Aug 2012

I thought it could only properly be said to be "upside down" when it is attached to flag pole (which provides the reference point for the broadest white diagonal, which should be uppermost nearest the highest point of attachment).

Otherwise, surely, whether it is "upside down" depends on which side you are looking at it from... (for an example of what i mean, see here - which by your diagram / rule of thumb is "upside down", but i would argue is not)
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 07:00 Wed 08 Aug 2012

Flagpole always deemed to be on the left, unless it isn’t.

Words to this effect have been added.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by mpij » 07:47 Wed 08 Aug 2012

Really don't care which way up they are, but on another point of pedantry, if this question is related to Olympics then surely you mean Union Flags not Jacks.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 08:39 Wed 08 Aug 2012

mpij wrote:on another point of pedantry, if this question is related to Olympics then surely you mean Union Flags not Jacks.
Use of the term ‟Union Jack” to refer to the national flag of the United Kingdom has been sanctioned by the Admiralty and by Parliament.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by JacobH » 10:21 Wed 08 Aug 2012

Some of this pedantry seems to be aimed at the use of single- rather than double-sided flags, which will always cause problems when displayed in a window (though not as many problems as, e.g., the Saudi flag causes).

I also enjoy the reverse-pedantry on the choice of name of the flag ;-)
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by RAYC » 10:26 Wed 08 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
mpij wrote:on another point of pedantry, if this question is related to Olympics then surely you mean Union Flags not Jacks.
Use of the term ‟Union Jack” to refer to the national flag of the United Kingdom has been sanctioned by the Admiralty and by Parliament.
Indeed - The Flag Institute seem to suggest that qualms about using "Union Jack" in all circumstances is a relatively modern phenomenon.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by JacobH » 10:42 Wed 08 Aug 2012

RAYC wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
mpij wrote:on another point of pedantry, if this question is related to Olympics then surely you mean Union Flags not Jacks.
Use of the term ‟Union Jack” to refer to the national flag of the United Kingdom has been sanctioned by the Admiralty and by Parliament.
Indeed - The Flag Institute seem to suggest that qualms about using "Union Jack" in all circumstances is a relatively modern phenomenon.
Whilst both terms are in current use today, a pedant referring to the flag as the ‟Union Jack” is in the same category as one who adopts American ‟-ize” spellings when the words are of Greek etymology; it is clearly an example of reserve-pedantry, attempting to justify something that is commonly thought to be wrong¹.

However, since we are now engaging in that debate ;-) I note that the ‟Parliamentary” approval quoted by that article is, in fact, a throwaway line at the end of an answer to a question by the Earl of Crewe in reply to a question as to whether ‟the full Union Jack may be flown on land by every citizen in the Empire as well as on Government Offices and Public Buildings”. It seems to me to be a) not an example of Parliament’s approbation; b) perhaps more indicative of the government’s view than Parliament’s; and c) not really going to the question of the name of the flag.

[¹ not that such things are necessary wrong; I know I am guilty of it in a few places, too...]
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 14:50 Wed 08 Aug 2012

JacobH wrote:Some of this pedantry seems to be aimed at the use of single- rather than double-sided flags, which will always cause problems when displayed in a window (though not as many problems as, e.g., the Saudi flag causes).
In some cases it might be that a flag was to be viewed from the other side of the window: in such cases, no photo was taken, nor criticism made. Where the flag would not be visible from the ‘correct’ side, or where there has been obvious inconsistency, then I have expressed disapproval.

The comment about the Earl of Crewe is noted with interest. He was responding, in Parliament, to a question on the subject of the flag, his answer not being in any way subsequently corrected or amended. How is that not definitive?

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by griff » 22:00 Wed 08 Aug 2012

Perhaps an absence of correction denotes acceptance rather than approval?

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 23:06 Wed 08 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:Some pedants are, allegedly, annoyed by Upside-Down Union Jacks.

Please send me photos of like crimes.
Two more flag crimes added.

And a link to the statement of the Earl of Crewe added to the correct place.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by JacobH » 11:23 Sat 11 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:The comment about the Earl of Crewe is noted with interest. He was responding, in Parliament, to a question on the subject of the flag, his answer not being in any way subsequently corrected or amended. How is that not definitive?
Two reasons. Firstly, the purpose of questions being asked in Parliament is to seek the view and scrutinize HM’s Government (c.f.). The Earl of Crewe was, I think, the Lord President of the Council at that period and therefore a cabinet minister. His answer to the question is therefore an explanation of the views of the government, not of Parliament. For Parliament to give a view, there would need to be a resolution of both houses to that effect. Secondly, the question does not seem to relate to what the correct name for the flag is, but whether it can be flown. The Earl of Crewe may have simply not corrected the asker out of politeness.

Whilst I don’t disagree that there are many sources which support the use of ‟Union Jack” (though I wonder if many are from the last 25 years); that comment seems an odd one to rely on.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 11:35 Sat 11 Aug 2012

A link to the previous post has been added.

And another flag-crime added.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Andy Velebil » 15:23 Sat 11 Aug 2012

On a trip to London a few years ago JDAW taught me to spot a Union Jack improperly displayed. I now look at everyone to see who's done it right or wrong.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 15:28 Sat 11 Aug 2012

Andy Velebil wrote:On a trip to London a few years ago JDAW taught me to spot a Union Jack improperly displayed. I now look at everyone to see who's done it right or wrong.
When looking for upside-down Union Jacks it is best to look at every one, rather than looking at everyone. :wink: :QuotePedant:
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Andy Velebil » 19:14 Sat 11 Aug 2012

DRT wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote:On a trip to London a few years ago JDAW taught me to spot a Union Jack improperly displayed. I now look at everyone to see who's done it right or wrong.
When looking for upside-down Union Jacks it is best to look at every one, rather than looking at everyone. :wink: :QuotePedant:
But I must do both if someone is wearing one. :lol:
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Of course you could all show up to your next offline dressed like this and give JDAW a real fit. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 19:36 Fri 07 Sep 2012

Difficult to be sure, but I think the flag in the foreground is upside down. This is one of the official pictures on the Team GB Facebook page :?
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Andy Velebil » 07:45 Sat 08 Sep 2012

DRT, you appear to be correct. Should someone inform them?

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 08:32 Sat 08 Sep 2012

Andy Velebil wrote:DRT, you appear to be correct. Should someone inform them?
The Union Jack Chief of Police has been informed and will take whatever action he feels is appropriate ;-)
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 10:23 Sat 08 Sep 2012

Please could somebody with Facebook expertise make, on the TeamGB Facebook page, a post pointing to www.jdawiseman.com/upside.html or to twitter.com/jdaw1/status/244364511547637761. Thank you.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 18:50 Sat 08 Sep 2012

jdaw1 wrote:Please could somebody with Facebook expertise make, on the TeamGB Facebook page, a post pointing to www.jdawiseman.com/upside.html or to twitter.com/jdaw1/status/244364511547637761. Thank you.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 13:27 Sat 24 Nov 2012

Those who enjoyed this thread might also enjoy this.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 14:08 Sat 24 Nov 2012

DRT wrote:Those who enjoyed this thread might also enjoy this.
You owe me five minutes of my life. Too much canned laughter; too little that was actually funny.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 21:03 Tue 14 May 2013

Am I allowed to be particularly disappointed that, in this BBC article, the BNP have the flag upside down?
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 21:54 Tue 14 May 2013

Please, come to Belfast, where we can do a tour of upside-down Union Flegs.
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