The "Deeper Underground" Offline (28 Jan 2008)

[Conky]

Reminded me of the Fast Show,

'Indecisive Dave' eat you're heart out!

[DRT]

Or, it could be that I am willing to be convinced to change my mind through sound reasoning and debate

Anyway, I've had my 1 wobble on this one and am now firmly in the Greatest 1966 VP Horizontal Tasting in History camp.

Derek

[jdaw1]

News: I now have to give a presentation, on a subject that is dearer to my heart than to yours, on the Wednesday 30th. Hence I’d very much like the tasting to not be on Tuesday 29th.

[DRT]

That is assured by the fact that all particiants have voted for Monday the 28th

Derek

[Simon Lisle]

I have booked the flights and can offer any two of the following Croft Delaforce,Noval,Dows,

[Alex Bridgeman]

I only have the Fonseca '66 to offer for the tasting. I don't have a large range of '66s since I spend most of my time and money buying my '63 birth year ports.

Alex

[DRT]

Simon and AHB (and anyone else who has 66's),

Could you please send me a PM with prices for the bottles you have to offer.

The discussion above suggests that not many people have lots of 66's sitting around so I think we will have to do this on a port or money basis.

I think I have a Warre's to offer but will have to check.

Derek

[uncle tom]

The discussion above suggests that not many people have lots of 66's sitting around

It is noticeable on the auction scene that 63's are far more common than 66's

Tom

[Simon Lisle]

Which bottles would you like me to bring.

[DRT]

Simon,

Could you please send me a PM with prices for the 66's you have?

Thanks

Derek

[Conky]

Today, I booked Leave for the Monday an Tuesday, to attend this one. With the help of Overtired & Emotional, we have rooms booked, an I will be purchasing the train tickets, anytime in the next 10 days.
So I can probably speak for John and I, We're Coming!
As per our previous conversations, I'm happy with the 66 theme. I am getting weak vibes on availability. I know Tom and Derek are working on this, but if it turns out to be a difficult task, dont forget the 63 v 66 option.
Unlike last time, were I couldn't attend and had other worries, this one is Full Steam Ahead! Bring on the Port.

Alan

[DRT]

During the next few days I will be visiting Tom to pick up some 66s that he has kindly offered to sell us. From memory these are:

Graham's
Noval
Offley
Rebello Valente

Alex has kindly offered Fonseca and an Avery's BOB.

Simon has 4 bottles for which I am waiting on prices.

Jdaw has a few bottles and I would also like prices for these, please?

Jaykay32 has the bottle that started all this in the first place.

I believe we can come up with a spectacular line-up of 66s from this selection at a reasonable price per head.

Any more offers out there?

Derek

[jdaw1]

• BBR 1966 was bought before I was keeping good records, and my spreadsheet says only “~£45†.
• Warre 1966 bought from Fine & Rare Wines on 1st August 2003, then costing £48.
• Dow 1966 bought in 2005 as part of a mixed lot. Perhaps Uncle Tom could be prevailed upon to choose a price.

[jdaw1]

Attendee List:

1. JAYKAY32 (Guest of Honour)
2. Jdaw1
3. KillerB
4. AHB
5. Simon Lisle
6. Derek T.
7. SteveCage (maybe)

With the addition of Conky, is this still the attendee list? (I might bring a useful something for people, so need to know how many.)

Wine Offers:

• Adams 1966 - JayKay32
• Fonseca 1966 - AHB & Derek T.
• Dow 1966 - Jdaw1, Simon Lisle & Derek T.
• Warre 1966 - Jdaw1
• BBR BOB 1966 (Warre) - Jdaw1

As you can see we are struggling to come up with a wide selection of 66's. However, if Simon does have another 66 which isn't A, D, F or W we could have the following:

• A66 - JayKay3
• F66 - AHB
• W66 - Jdaw1
• D66 - Derek T.
• Other66 - Simon Lisle

Or Simon could ‘adopt’ my BBR BOB (believed Warre), thus allowing comparison between Warre-branded and what Warre sold to BBR. No later than the afternoon of Thursday 24th January I must have a final list of which bottles I’m bringing. And, for placemat (current draft) purposes, what others are bringing as well.

JAYKAY: please would you PM either Derek T. or me (or both) your mobile phone number, to permit on-the-day co-ordination and disaster recovery.

[JAYKAY32]

Hi Chaps,

Just a quick note to let you know i have sent jdaw1 and Derek T my mobile number as requested. Looking forward to 'Going Underground'
with you all on the 28th.

Best Regards
Space Cowboy!!!

[jdaw1]

• Adams 1966 - JayKay32
• Fonseca 1966 - AHB & Derek T.
• Dow 1966 - Jdaw1, Simon Lisle & Derek T.
• Warre 1966 - Jdaw1
• BBR BOB 1966 (Warre) - Jdaw1

1. I will be travelling from, say, 10am, until late afternoon. Do we want the two Warres decanted at â€‟10 hours or at â€‟3 hours? (I’m guessing longer.)
2. JK: are you familiar and comfortable with decanting (and indeed, double decanting)? Guessing not, I’ll advise.
   1. Have to hand a clean dry container (like, really clean and really thoroughly rinsed), such as an empty wine bottle.
   2. Have to hand a cork.
   3. Have a clean dry funnel, and an unbleached coffee filter.
   4. From one of your bottles of Adam’s 1966 remove any rubber or wax seal. (If this can be done neatly, such that the seal can be shown to us, that might help with identification. Just in case, take a a good photo before trying to remove it.)
   5. Use your best corkscrew, which of course has an open screw, to remove cork. If the cork breaks it might be necessary to push it in.
   6. Put funnel into empty bottle; unbleached coffee filter into that; pour port through.
   7. When your bottle is empty, rinse it thoroughly with water but no detergent.
   8. Drain the Adam’s bottle a for a few minutes. It won’t be perfectly dry inside.
   9. Move funnel to Adam’s bottle.
   10. Pour in a splash of the juice, only a splash.
   11. Swirl that splash of port around to remove any remaining water drops, and pour away (or into a glass).
   12. In goes the rest of the juice, and on goes the cork from sub-¶b.
   13. Drink contents of glass mentioned in sub-¶k.
   14. Bring double-decanted bottle to Crusting Pipe, with the seal and photo thereof, the Adam’s cork, and a liver.

[Conky]

Jdaw1,

To the list of attendees, you not only need to add me, but also Overtired and Emotional.

Your getting the full North Western contingent. (All 2 of us!)

Alan

[jdaw1]

I had you on the list Conky. And bringing what bottles?

[Conky]

We're both adopting, I hope. Derek is looking into that. That's part of where my 63 v 66 thoughts came from, but Derek is confident we'll source enough 66's and he usually comes up trumps.

Alan.

Sorry about this Jules, but this spellchecker does appear to correct apostrophes!!! Needless to say, I often forget.

[DRT]

Apologies for my absence in recent days.

I can now confirm that Tom has come up trumps once again and I now have 5 66s in my ppsession, including the F66 belonging to AHB. Please add the following to the lineup:

Grahams
Noval
Rebello Valente
Offley Boa Vista
Simon's other 66 that is not Noval or Warre

Please also add Simon's wife to the attendees.

Now we need to work out the port to person ratio and decide whether or not we have enough bottles. We then need to do some behind the scenes cash for bottles deals for those who have no bottles.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam’s (JRK);
2. 1966 Dow (SL|DRT|JDAW);
3. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
4. 1966 Graham (? via DRT);
5. 1966 Noval (? via DRT);
6. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (? via DRT);
7. 1966 Rebello Valente (? via DRT);
8. 1966 Warre (JDAW) {£48};
9. 1966 BBR believed Warre (JDAW) {£45};
10. 1966 Simon’s other (SL).

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. J? (=OT.&E.);
9. ARK (added after being mentioned in following post);
10. Maybe JDAW’s brother APPW.

This information being embedded within the current draft of placemat.

[KillerB]

Oi - why have I been ejected? I grant that I have not found a bottle yet, but I am looking.

[DRT]

It seems that a neat solution is emerging here.

I have 4 bottles of 1966 (Graham's, Noval. Offley and Rebello Valente)that were purchased for an average price of £45 each. Three people here (Conky, O&E and KillerB) do not seem to have a bottle to bring along. Hopefully the solution is self explanatory. If not, please PM me.

A similar solution seems to exist in relation to JDAW's brother and his BBR66, although brotherly love may dictate that no money changes hands.



Derek

PS: Is it worth asking which form of retentive OCD JDAW2 suffers from or should we keep that as a surprise for the night?

[jdaw1]

So who brings the Dow?

And what is SL’s other?

[DRT]

I have booked the flights and can offer any two of the following Croft Delaforce,Noval,Dows,

So who brings the Dow?

And what is SL’s other?

I think Simon should bring the Dow's plus either a Croft (preferred) or Delaforce.

That leave's jdaw1 to bring a Warre's plus possibly a BBR(Warre's) if jdaw2 comes along.

Derek

[jdaw1]

My brother might be a late decision: I’ll bring the two Warres anyway.

SL+KL: please confirm Dow + Croft.

Current draft of placemat updated. Please can:

1. Derek T. to verify that these are correct;
2. Somebody other than me print and bring (it’ll save me carrying them across the Atlantic).

[Conky]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

I was thinking a Bottle each was on the sensible side, but when you consider we have a commercial environment and a 'chucking out' time, it seems quite reasonable.

Alan

[DRT]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

You can easily get 12 decent tasting measures out of a bottle of port. I have a feeling a few non-66's may put is a guest appearance just to ensure a constant supply of juice isn't an issue

Derek

[DRT]

My brother might be a late decision: I’ll bring the two Warres anyway.

SL+KL: please confirm Dow + Croft.

Current draft of placemat updated. Please can:

1. Derek T. to verify that these are correct;
2. Somebody other than me print and bring (it’ll save me carrying them across the Atlantic).

I note the use of the possesive for Adam's but not for others that one might traditionally expect, specifically Graham's, Warre's and Dow's.

Apart from that they look fine to me.

Derek

[jdaw1]

“Adam† then. Done.

[Simon Lisle]

I'll bring along the Dow's and Croft and throw in the Delaforce if needed.

[Conky]

I've speed read this thread again, and sorry if I missed it, but has anyone secured the Crusting Pipe?
Could be quite a blow if they are closed on the 28th!

[jdaw1]

Fine question — not I.

[DRT]

A fine question indeed, and something that any competent offline organiser would not forget to do ...

I will PM AHB immediately and ask him to use his usual source at The Pipe to secure the best table, glasses and little or no corkage. This may cause an additional member to join our merry band, the manager, Ian.

Derek

[DRT]

Updated lists with changes highlighted:

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam’s (JRK);
2. 1966 Dow (SL);
3. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
4. 1966 Graham (ARK via DRT);
5. 1966 Noval (DRT);
6. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (Conky? via DRT);
7. 1966 Rebello Valente (OT&E? via DRT);
8. 1966 Warre (JDAW);
9. 1966 BBR believed Warre (JDAW);
10. 1966 Croft (SL).

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. J? (=OT.&E.);
9. ARK;
10. Maybe JDAW’s brother APPW.

This information needs to be embedded within the current draft of placemat.

[jdaw1]

Current draft of placemat updated, and IW added to the list of drinkers. I note your use of possessive “Adam’s† without comment.

[DRT]

Here are some words about the port we will be drinking to get your juices flowing...

Richard Mayson (Port and the Douro)

1966***** Power and elegance; complete
Although the standard is perhaps not as high across the board as 1963, there are a number of really stupendous vintage ports combining structure and quintessential "bitter chocolate" intensity. Dow and Fonseca are two of my fovourites, followed by dense, brooding wines from Delaforce, Graham and Taylor. The 1966s may be drunk now, but the best of these wines will keep for a lifetime or more.

Pick of the vintage: Dow, Fonseca and Quinta do Noval Nacional

Michael Broadbent (Vintage Wine)

A marvellous vintage declared by 20 shippers, Cockburn and Martinez being the odd-men out. Firm yet flexible wines with perfect weight and balance. Sinewy and long-lasting. Most will almost certainly outlast the '63s, and will probably turn out greater in the end. All this was due to a hot year which ripened but did not singe the grapes, and some rain at vintage time which reduced concentration. This vintage is still somewhat underestimated and undervalued.

Berry Brothers Selection
A superbly balanced wine blended and bottled in Berry Bros style...Still deep, relatively youthful for its age; harmonious, waxy bouquet, fairly sweet, nice weight, elegant, well balanced. In short, delicious. Shipped via Percy Fox & Co, then Warre's agents.
Last tasted 1989 *****

Croft
In the mid-1980s: plummy; fruity; harmonious; good depth, nice weight. Now, noting a strange peppery nose; fairly sweet, touch of hardness.
Last tasted 1993 ***

Dow
...lovely, evolved, slightly spirity; very sweet for Dow, delicious, perfect now.
Last tasted 2002 *****

Fonseca
...flawless bouquet, crisp, rich, classic. Sweet with lovely fleshy texture, fruit, flavour and finish. Might surpass even the '63.
Last tasted 1998 *****

Graham
...a lovely soft ruby colour; classic nose, licquorice, touch of tar; leaner than expected but lovely...superb bouquet, flavour and texture.
Last tasted 2001 *****

Quinta do Noval
In the early days somewhat beefy for Noval. Still very deep, with good 'legs'; good, figgy nose; very sweet, good flesh. An excellent Noval combining the sweetness of Graham and the backbone of Taylor. Good flesh. Still tannic.
Last tasted 1995 ****

Offley Boa Vista
...rich and fat with good fruit in the early 1980s. More recently, fully mature yet still rather hard fruit. Full bodied.
Last tasted 1993 ***

Warre
A wine with suppleness and a bit of a swagger. Several consistent notes over the past ten years. Now mature-looking, even a hint of orange; 'lovely' nose noted on three occassions; fairly, not very, sweet, perfect weight and flavour. Most recently, similar notes, very good texture and flavour. 'What port is all about'
Last tasted 2002 *****


James Suckling (Vintage Port)

1966: Outstanding (93)
Iron backbone, good concentration, fresh flavours

The best wines from 1966 are those from the highly reputed houses, though Niepoort and Offley also made excellent wines. The stars are clearly Noval Nacional and Fonseca. They are massive wines with a bounty of ripe fruit and hard tannins. The Graham, Sandeman, Cockburn, Noval and Croft are also outstanding. Especially noteworthy in this group is the 1966 Quinta do Noval, which is much better than the Noval 1963, and probably the best Noval since 1955.

• Fonseca - 97 pts
• Dow - 94 pts
• Graham - 93 pts
• Quinta do Noval - 91 pts
• Warre - 91 pts
• Croft - 90 pts
• Offley Boa Vista - 90 pts
• Rebello Valente - 82 pts

Derek

[DRT]

I note your use of possessive “Adam’s† without comment.

I appologise for my oversight in not correcting your error when I copied the list from a previous thread

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

I was thinking a Bottle each was on the sensible side, but when you consider we have a commercial environment and a 'chucking out' time, it seems quite reasonable.

Sharing a bottle of port between 12 people means that each person gets about a small port glass of each bottle. By "small port glass", I mean a normal sized port glass filled to the point where the glass reaches its widest point. If we're using normal wine glasses then it will be a splash in the bottom of the glass.

From experience, a bottle of port apiece over an evening at the Crusting Pipe is about right, perhaps a little on the light side.

However, also from experience, Ian usually has a decent selection of ports that are not too expensive behind the bar and one or two of those usually also get purchased and opened on the night to supplement the bottles we bring with us. This achieves two things:
(a) we get plenty to drink; and
(b) Ian is happy as he makes his margin on the extra bottles he sells us and looks forward to the next time we book the Crusting Pipe.
I'll find out what he expects to have behind the bar towards the end of January and post it here.

I'll contact the Crusting Pipe today and find out when Ian is next in, as I would prefer to book the venue directly with him. Do we also need to book a gross of glasses?

Alex

[DRT]

Do we also need to book a gross of glasses?

Yes, we do.

Thanks for doing this, Alex.

It might be worth asking Ian what they have available at the Davy's shop as we might even pick-up another 66. It would be good to add taylor to this line-up if we could as it is a notebale omission at present.

Derek

[DRT]

Updated lists with additions highlighted in red. Some amendments to wine descriptions have not been highlighted but are now more accurate following my research last night:

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam's (JRK);
2. 1966 Dow's (SL);
3. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
4. 1966 Graham's (ARK via DRT);
5. 1966 Quinta do Noval (DRT);
6. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (Conky? via DRT);
7. 1966 Robertson's Rebello Valente (OT&E? via DRT);
8. 1966 Warre's (JDAW);
9. 1966 Berry Brothers Selection shipped by Warre's agent (JDAW);
10. 1966 Croft (SL);
11. 1966 CG's Contribution (CG)
12. 1966 Avery's (AHB for IW).

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. J? (=OT.&E.);
9. ARK;
10. Christopher Gee - Crusting Pipe Diehard;
11. Ian Wright - Manager of the Crusting Pipe - if he can get a pass from the Mrs
12. Maybe JDAW’s brother APPW.

This information needs to be embedded within the current draft of placemat.

Updated following the post from AHB below

Updated again following discovery of initials transposition blunder

[Alex Bridgeman]

Venue and glasses now booked. We have our usual table in the tunnel at the back and 144 glasses to share between us.

Ian Wright will happily accept our invitation to join, subject to being allowed a domestic pass as he is on holiday the week of Jan 28th. With 12 people, I think that all places have now been taken at the tasting.

I've agreed that if Ian joins us he does not have to provide a bottle of port as he will effectively be providing the venue. However, to keep the bottle numbers and drinker numbers equal, I will bring a 12th bottle and will bring the Avery's 1966.

In terms of costs, we should budget for a meal each (but, if I recall correctly, Monday nights have the fixed price theatre menu available for £15) plus £10 corkage each plus service and tips amounting to, say, a total of £35 per head for the evening. If we end up buying a bottle or two of port from behind the bar, the budget we each have in mind should be set at about £50 a head.

Alex

[jdaw1]

How big are the Crusting Pipe’s glasses? Twelve on one sheet is very tight: should I split into 2Ã six?

[jdaw1]

1966 CG's Contribution (GC)

Is that a transposition of letters, or a transposition of meanings with one meaning being “Gould Campbell†?

[DRT]

1966 CG's Contribution (GC)

Is that a transposition of letters, or a transposition of meanings with one meaning being “Gould Campbell†?

It's incompetence. Both should read CG, being the initials of our latest addition to the attendee list.

[jdaw1]

Current draft of placemat assuming Gould Campbell and the team preference is for the split.

Edit: you beat me to the post. Will change it again.

Edit edit: current draft of placemat fixed.

[Ghandih]

Hello,

It seems like this is all wrapped up, but might there be space for me, if I weren't almost certainly going to be in Tipperary? I would start trying to make the necessary rearrangements and courting permission from the management, but if I'm too late then I needn't bother.

Ghandih

PS I did check whether I might be able to pop back for the evening from Ireland, but it looks like that wouldn't be possible, confirming what we already knew, that it's a long way to Tipperary.

[Conky]

Simon,

I'm sure you could be squeezed in, but I've read your Post 3 times, and I still cant quite work out whether there's a chance you can make it, or not?
It may be me being dense, and I would look forward to your company, but just clear it up.

Alan

[Ghandih]

Honest answer is I don't know whether I could swing it or not, but it would take some mighty hefting to swing, and I'd rather not heft in vain.

My main concern was the amount of port you can get from any one bottle, which I've read on TPF to be about 12 glasses. There are 12 of you already, and I might be a bit of a Judas if I deprived folk of a full glass's worth of joy.

I'd rather stay friends with you all and tag along to another event!!

[DRT]

Ghandih,

Nice to hear from you again. I hope you haven't been tiddling your wink all this time - it'll drop off

I for one would be more than happy for you to join us. Yes, it is true that a bottle of port will provide a good measure for 12, but that means it will provide an adequate measure for 13

...and it must also be remembered that we will have 14 or 15 adequate measures each to drink so I don't see a problem. Another factor to consider is that 2 attendees have not yet confirmed and I would hate to turn away a willing and eager participant only to find we have an empty chair on the night.

I vote: Ghandih Can Come

I even know where you can buy a bottle of Delaforce 1966 at a very reasonable price

Go buy your Mrs some cheese and seal the deal.

Derek